http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...int-woes_x.htm

A while back I read about a company that had set up kiosks outside security at several airports where you could pay to have such items mailed home if you realized it before they were found by security - never actually seen one of these, though.

Article also speaks of the shoe removal thing. Last summer, after getting no straight answer pre-flight about whether or not I had to remove my shoes, I just didn't. Have been on about 8 flights since then and never have removed my shoes and no one has done or said anything about it. But I did notice almost everyone else was automatically remving their shoes.

There's a very funny lady checker at Boston who, when she called me aside told me I had been chosen "Queen for a Day."

It's always a crapshoot what's going to set off the alarms. Re the shoes, I see what they're asking of the passengers in front of me before automatically taking off my shoes.

I really loathe Miami's checkpoints. Several times I've had agents I could NOT understand a word they were saying (extremely heavy Spanish accents) & since I'm usually in a hurry for a connection I'm always pulled aside for a thorough search there.

I don't take the shoes off unless asked to. They don't set off the alarm.

Once before boarding AA the employee asked everybody in line to remove their shoes as he wanted to make sure we all have matching socks

Look, and I want to be very careful about this, 99% of this nonsense is just that nonsense. Unfortunately we live in a world where we have sickos and wackos and pure vermin who, if they really want to do something, will be able to figure out a way to do it. Not that I object to normal screening...send my carry on's through metal detectors and if something trips the alarm, let them go through it. That's fine

But what I do resent are the "random" searches where having passed through securityu say at Heathrow which does a very good job, they then select passengers to do it again...once they go through your stuff, they should tag the stuff and not subject you to this humiliating garbage which has never picked up anybody...but my feeling is they have to look like they're doing something and of course the mentality of some is personal liberties don't matter anymore and like lambs being led to the slaughter, we simply comply (not that we have any choice) but to me, it is unnecessary and insulting (the random searches that is)...insulting say to Heathrow security and to all of us.

I totally agree.

I appreciate the option of not having to remove my shoes and frequently choose to keep them on. Just have to wait two or three minutes for the swab check. Haven't been wanded in those cases.

Only once has the TSA given me a hard time, at Dulles airport where I was told that it would take a half hour to get it done.

Random searches are a good thing. The thorough search can't be done for everybody yet the normal searches aren't thorough enough. If only the normal search is done then a terrorist will figure out how to beat it. But the possibility of a thorough search will prevent some attempts.

Random searches are fine. That's a legitimate form of security.

What's absurd is the ambiguity when it comes to shoes. You can tell people you need to take off all footwear, or you tell people you don't need to take off. That's fine. It's even fine if you say when a TSA agent asks you to take off shoes, you take off. I can also accept that.

But what's <b>ridiculous</b> is this &quot;we <b>suggest/recommend/encourage</b> you to take off your shoes&quot; crap. What the heck is that. Why don't you tell the cops to tell a suspect &quot;We suggest you put down your gun&quot;? Or tell a driver &quot;We highly recommend you show me your driver's license&quot;?

I've written about this at length on this forum some time ago.

and of course in europe you don't need to remove shoes at all

rkkwan, what the heck it is is the TSA's odd way of <u>asking</u> you to take off your shoes. Maybe you covered this in your other post, I didn't see it. My take on it is that they could say: remove your shoes or you will be subject to secondary screening. But I think that invites discussion, which they don't want, and which might lead to them having to do more secondary screening. The way they say it is more like a &quot;take off your shoes ... or else!&quot;. Since I am being asked to make a choice, I choose the one that suits me at the moment. In either case, my shoes and I will be analyzed.

The orders of a police officer are a whole different matter.

the ambiguity of their statement tends to prevent further discussion, doesn't it?

BTW, I've since worn sandals when traveling, and I don't take them off. I'm so tired of this stupid TSA crap.

Mr. W has the right idea, with respect to TSA language. And you may be sick of this &quot;crap&quot; Rkkwan, but none of you knows what type of intelligence is being gathered and analyzed behind the scenes-i.e., what the USG knows about terrorist M.O.s, what is going on in the terrorist world at any given point in time, attempts against civil aviation worldwide, attempts to infiltrate the system. You may THINK you know, but that's not the same as knowing. Nor should you.

We've not had any serious problems since 9/11-and the terrorist attacks have been surface transportation related, i.e., subways and trains-you think that is just mere coincidence? You think the TSA isn't over there in Spain and India checking out their airports? They are.

Do you know about the explosive trace detection machines? Do you know why they are in use? Had we had these at CDG back in Dec. 2001, Richard Reid would never have been allowed to get on an aircraft-because the machines are that sensitive that they would have picked up the explosives residue that was all over his PERSON-which means that terrorists are now going around traditional methods of introducing explosives in checked baggage in favor of the &quot;carry-on bomb.&quot;

And you're never going to know definitively whether or not to take your shoes off at any given airport checkpoint. If everyone knows exactly what is expected of them at the checkpoint, if the USG is not constantly employing a variety of different security measures to keep the bad guys off balance, then they would hardly be carrying out their mandate to &quot;protect persons and property traveling in transportation from acts of air piracy and other criminal acts&quot; (to quote the statute) now would they?

They do a very diligent job.

Girlpytravel - I am perfectly fine with TSA randomly asking people to take off their shoes, or other checks.

Just tell me clearly if I need to take off my shoes or not. Is it really that hard? They can do it random, they can based that on agent discreption, they can use sophisicated profiling - racial or otherwise. <b>I do not care.</b> Just tell me off or on <b>when</b> I get to the checkpoint, not before. Please understand what I'm saying before criticizing me.

Is there any government agent anywhere in the world that &quot;suggests&quot; you to do something? Does IRS &quot;suggest&quot; me to pay my taxes? Does the passport control &quot;suggest&quot; me to show them my passport?

Rkkwan-there was a policy decision made about the shoe issue, and how to present it to the public-it was to &quot;suggest&quot;-meaning, that if they want you to take your shoes off, they will &quot;suggest&quot; that you do that, thereby psychologically gaining an advantage over the pax by not &quot;ordering&quot; you to do it-and nominally leaving it to the pax's discretion. And at those airports, on any given day, where they don't care if you take your shoes off or not, they will say nothing more to you other than the suggestion-which means that a signficant sample will still take the shoes off, regardless, and there will be those who will not, and can still pass through. The security objective at these airports has thus been achieved, without issuing an order-no order=better customer service.


BUT, there will be those airports where they WILL want shoes off-everyone. You don't get to know that in advance-but if they &quot;suggest&quot; you do-and you don't, then they will tell you you cannot pass without removal.

It's a perfectly rational aviation security measure to me.

Girlspytravel - Okay, I think I understand what you're saying, after your good explanation.

But I do not agree that's &quot;better customer service&quot;. I think it's horrible, and it's crap to me. However, that's an opinion, and I can respect this psychological warfare thing as you explain to me about how they're getting people to take off their shoes without asking or ordering. Still, I highly question how effective it is to stop real terrorists.

Anyways, personally, I'm not going to take that crap whenever possible, so I'm wearing sandals unless I'm going to very cold places.

That's okay, you can question security procedures-it's fertile ground for debate-and the USG is not immune to customer complaints or arguments about the efficaciousness of particular security measures-you will have noticed that some have come, and then gone.

I will say though, that many many people, those in the USG as well, who thought that the 6 questions that were asked of pax at one time were, &quot;stupid questions&quot; For the most part, those questions have been eliminated.

Except that the public still has no idea how effective that measure really was (and in some contexts, still is) in detecting and thwarting criminal acts against aviation.

No one has personally &quot;suggested&quot; to me that I remove my shoes in the times I have traveled in past 12 months. If they did, I would remove them - while chipping away at our civil liberties for questionable gain really bothers me, I don't think the time and place for me to make that point would be with a TSA security person.

I just wish they had more chairs in convenient places for passengers to put their shoes back on without hopping on one foot while blocking traffic.

I still dislike having to walk barefoot where tons of other people have just done the same.

And I really loathe that my birthday is 9/11.

TSA is nothing but a total waste of money, a joke, infact it's the perfect example of a government agency that went from a good intention to a disaster.

Lately GAO has been reporting that in spite of the agency's $6B a year budget, as opposed to ~$660M for private screeners before 9/11, the agency has a failure record of almost double that of the private screeners when it comes to finding test weapons, bombs, etc....but at least they accomplished one goal, Americans walking on dirty floors and carpets without their shoes......Thank You TSA!

Members of Congress from both parties are starting to really ask questions of what exactly has the agency done for all the money spent?

other than harass and inconvinience the average Americans during their travels....

It's time to admit the failure and close down this agency. The sooner the better.