My family (4 adults) was traveling from Marseilles to EWR (via Paris) on March 27 and arrived 4 minutes after the check-in time had closed at the Marseilles airport. They had printed boarding passes the night before, so thought they had a chance of making the flight - despite traffic problems getting to the airport. The flight left a bit late, so they could have made it easily, but the ticketing agent wouldn't allow it. They had to rebook on the next flight to Paris - at fees of 142 to 148 euro per person - even though there was plenty of space on the next flight. One person was flying to Houston from Paris, and was going to miss her flight, so she was rebooked the following day at a cost of 787 euro - she had to pay for her own food, transfers and hotel in Paris - with no help from Air France on finding lodging at a "distressed traveler" rate (as is often done in the US). I called United, USAirways, Continental, Northwest , and Lufthansa - and was told that all airlines would have used the "flat tire rule" and rebooked the travelers on the next available flights at no charge. I called Air France many times - there seems no way to talk to a person re: disputed charges or questionable rebooking practices. I wrote in detail to Air France, and they responded that they could not credit us. I disputed the charge w/ AMEX and Air France will not refund any of the charges (a total of $1,713). So, this is an alert to travelers to arrive hours before your flight - and perhaps to use a US carrier, rather than Air France.

Write to this person: [email protected]
state your problem. She handles or at least did consumer complaints for the EU might as well go right to the top.
She resolved a messy train problem for me with 1 1/2 times fare refund from Italian rail lines, where they were clearly wrong. Sounds like you deserve a hearing. I do know they do not like hearing from the EU boards.

Frankly, any US carrier would have done exactly the same thing. Especially for long-haul flights, and even more especially for flights to the US where passenger manifests have to be made available to US government agencies before the flight would be permitted to arrive in the States, airlines have for months and months been inflexible about minimum check in times.

This type of complaint, which basically boils down to "I want to not pay attention to the rules, but I don't want to bear the consequences of those [in]actions," is sort of aggravating. And to top it off, the OP has the gall to complain to AmEx and dispute the charges.

Sounds to me like Air France did nothing wrong. (Maybe "JoanneH" would like to explain why she thinks the OP "deserves a hearing" -- that too is unfathomable.)

"So, this is an alert to travelers to arrive hours before your flight."

Yes. Those rules have been in place for a long time now.

I agree with rizzuto. Closed means closed, and there is no leeway. It's unfortunate that you had to pay such a high financial price, but you missed your flight, and had to pay the last-minute walk-up prices for the next flights out. Really, any dispute in the matter you should take to the U.S. government. Air France is following its requirements in closing the check-in for flights to the United States at a certain point in advance of scheduled departure.

It sounds like you were upset because they were only 4 minutes late, and the airline should have given them some leeway.

So, what about the person who showed up 4 minutes, 30 seconds late? Or the person who showed up 5 minutes late? Or the person who showed up 10 minutes late? They all said they were stuck in traffic. Where do you draw the line?

Sorry, rules are rules, and that's why I always allow extra time when heading to the airport, esp if it's a city which I am not familiar with.

I don't see why Air France owed you anything.

(seems rather odd - you've been a member since 2004, yet this is your first post ever?? But never mind)

I suppose you are posting your complaint all over the internet on all sorts of websites. If so, soon you will soon see that AF did nothing wrong.

It has NOTHING to do w/ being 4 minutes late, and NOTHING to do w/ the flight leaving late -- there are rules. And to dispute this w/ the credit card is unconscionable IMO.

Your "alert" should be to folks to <u>be on time</u>

rules are not flexible but human beings are, or at least may be, ifthe just want. I agree that when flight is closed it is closed and cannot be re-open, but at least the rebooking fees may be handled in a more flexible way. The same applies when you show up for an earlier flight or have extra baggage weight. You may find an agent who ask you the rebooking or extra baggage fees according to the the rules, while another one would do it for free. It is also a matter of luck, not of which airline.

I don't see how an airline employee, a check-in agent, can make the decision to give a "discount" to the OP. If the new ticket is 142 euros, is the agent going to put in some "4-minute-late discount code" and somehow knock the price off? That's not possible. The agent cannot reissue NEW tickets at a discounted rate. Fabio's analogy of waiving the extra luggage fee doesn't apply here; plus I highly doubt any airline employees are waiving it for anyone these days.

You're basically saying that the employees should break the rules, decrease their employer's revenue, so that the employees have a better chance of being laid off?

Thanks for the responses - part of my issue was that the 5 airlines that I spoke to (United, USAirways, Continental, Lufthansa, and Northwest) said that they would have put the pax on the next available flights w/ space - without any charges. As to the manifest for foreign travel - the flight missed was Marseilles to Paris, and 3 of the pax made their scheduled connection - Paris to Newark, NJ - so there was no change necessary to the passenger manifests. Airline employees do make decisions to forego charges - for goodwill or whatever reason. I've seen it happen dozens of times. It just seems like hefty charges when there was plenty of space on all of the flights that were flown that day. For the pax who missed her Houston connection - the 787 euro plus costs of her stay in Paris overnight really was a surprise. Her flight also had empty seats. But our lesson was learned - arrive early - and don't expect leeway w/ fees - at least from Air France.

"<i>the 5 airlines that I spoke to . . . . . said that they would have put the pax on the next available flights w/ space - without any charges</i>"

Any airline can tell you anything - since you didn't actually have tickets on any of them. If you had actually shown up at their check-in desks after a flight had closed, their responses would probably be totally different.

Hypothetical is one thing - real life is a whole 'nuther matter . . . .

<<< I called United, USAirways, Continental, Northwest , and Lufthansa - and was told that all airlines would have used the "flat tire rule" and rebooked the travelers on the next available flights at no charge. >>>

Not all airlines have a "flat tire rule", most airlines assume you are adult enough to get to the airport in time without molly-coddling

yk

If you were an airline agent you would be one of those who applies the rules at 100%. Nothing wrong with this, of course, but, believe me, in 20 years of flying around the 5 continents I have found flexible and unflexible agents even within the same airline.
Rebooking onto the next flight does not necessarely need the tickets to be reissued. So we can speak about rebooking fees and reissuing fees, which is a different story. I have seen agents asking for the fees and others waiving them in some circumstances, as well as for the extra baggage, and I am convinved that non of them has been fired because of this.

"""You're basically saying that the employees should break the rules, decrease their employer's revenue, so that the employees have a better chance of being laid off?"""

I never said the the employees should break the rules. I just said that some of them do this and others don't.

Thanks to JoanneH and Fabio for a bit of empathy. Seems to be a rough, unyielding crowd posting here. It seems flexibility is necessary in today's world. I know in the hospitality business, we have to show our customers how important they are - and hope they return. Rules are made, and usually followed - but sometimes, extenuating circumstances occur ("sh-t happens") and a customer service representative can make a client's day by giving some consideration. I know - according to the rules of carriage for Air France - that nothing was done illegally in charging the above fees - but some consideration could have been shown to the passengers.

I think that maybe you and Fabio live in a WHOLE different universe. The airlines I know are not touchy feely - and they really don't have the leeway of someone in the "hospitality business".

Some airlines would have charged all of them the MUCH higher full, walk-up fares.

silliness

you got the point ! There are rules by one side and the customer by the other side. Impossible is nothing ! Despite the rules, which are fixed and valid, all depends on the agent you find in front of you. This happens among airlines, hospitality, as you say, and also in many other fields.

In these days, when even some airlines have serious economic difficulties due to the global crisis and the decreased number of passengers, flexibility towards the customers becomes one of the key points. Of course it is not mandatory.

janisi

when you mention "the airlines I know..." you are referring to your own experiences. You may not exclude that others had and will have different experiences.

I agree that in some situations, the airline employee may decide to waive the fee for customers, but that happens rarely and certainly is not the norm.

For the OP to claim that Air France charged him/her "exorbitant fees" when the employee was simply following the rules, and for the OP to dispute these charges with AMEX, is just a bit extreme. Sure, the OP *could have* gotten a break, but based on the initial post, it seems to me that the OP didn't think it was right for Air France to charge him/her any fees ("quoting the flat tire rule"), period.

yk

Yes!! Now have we come to a common point !

Well the only time I had to pay an exorbitant fee was also Air France for Paris-Berlin. So I can sympathize with the original poster.

It's true that it's hard to know where to draw the line, but it was really annoying to see that on the return flight from Berlin to Paris, the airline was still checking in passengers well past their supposed check-in deadline.

The idea here is that the airlines can break their own rules at their own will and treat their passengers like dirt. Why don't they give me a $300 refund when their flight leaves 4 minutes late?

I also wrote to AF, which of course refused to give me a credit.

Anyway, I just hope that the unsympathetic people on this thread don't find themselves in a situation when they miss a flight by 4 minutes. But then well I guess they are the ones who usually get to the airport 10 hours in advance, so it's unlikely.

Still, you never know!