Where should I go on safari?
Mar 12th, 2011, 08:38 AM
#21
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You might find interesting the following article http://www.bestplacesin.com/best-safaris-in-africa/
It's a short and useful guide to choose the best Safari in Africa. It's based on my experience of many trips to Africa
It's a short and useful guide to choose the best Safari in Africa. It's based on my experience of many trips to Africa
Mar 12th, 2011, 11:17 AM
#24
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Keerbergen? I know that place, but not because of something good.
There used to be a guy there who sold cheap camera stuff, but in the end it turned out to be a "tax-carroussel" so lots of people did not get their cam but lost their money, when the guy was arrested.
I never bought from him since I didn't trust him in the first place.
I'm from Ninove, which is close to Aalst.
There used to be a guy there who sold cheap camera stuff, but in the end it turned out to be a "tax-carroussel" so lots of people did not get their cam but lost their money, when the guy was arrested.
I never bought from him since I didn't trust him in the first place.
I'm from Ninove, which is close to Aalst.
Mar 13th, 2011, 11:52 PM
#26
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Hi
I would suggest Kruger National Park in South Africa, it has a high variety of wildlife which includes The Big Five, hippos, crocodiles, cheetah and other wild animals. The core park is around 2 million hectares big therefore It'll give you the opportunity to take a variety of pictures.The Kruger National Park offers game drives whereby you'll get the opportunity to get closer to the animals which will give you an advantage to take good pictures.
I would suggest Kruger National Park in South Africa, it has a high variety of wildlife which includes The Big Five, hippos, crocodiles, cheetah and other wild animals. The core park is around 2 million hectares big therefore It'll give you the opportunity to take a variety of pictures.The Kruger National Park offers game drives whereby you'll get the opportunity to get closer to the animals which will give you an advantage to take good pictures.
Mar 14th, 2011, 10:12 AM
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This could be the best thread of infomation I have ever seen posted with a good discussion and lots of suggestions. As I am struggling with the decision of returning for the fourth time to Southern Africa/Mala Mala and love Botswana, my neice is voting for Tanzania in June. It probably is time for a new experience, but it is hard to let go of the close promixity to the animals, experiences and small things of Southern Africa. I know I am lucky to have this decision to make. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Mar 14th, 2011, 03:53 PM
#28
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ShellCat - has your niece been on safari before? What about Tanzania attracts her? Have you looked into weather conditions in TZ in June? I was just in TZ (late Feb) and a manger at the Ndutu lodge told me she thought April-May (and likely June) were great in Ndutu area. Wildebeest herds were around in force and the area nice and green and not so very dusty. Of course the wildebeest calving is over by June. Where does your niece want to go in TZ?
regards - tom
ps - FWIW, I have also been to MalaMala three times. Love it, and Sabi Sand and Timbavati reserves.
regards - tom
ps - FWIW, I have also been to MalaMala three times. Love it, and Sabi Sand and Timbavati reserves.
Mar 14th, 2011, 04:25 PM
#29
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<b>How much influence would your tour leader have in getting you in the right position? </b>
Not any more influence than an experienced driver/guide or driver and ranger combo. Any reputable company will give you experienced personnel. You may also want to ask how long those responsible for your safari have been in the guiding business AND how long with the company.
Your recognition of correct positioning gets at positioning within the vehicle as well. Most photo trips have fewer people in the vehicle than a typical safari outing. A private vehicle gives you maximum range and flexibility for the best placement.
<b>Judging by their photos, they are either very lucky or experienced making sure the guide put them in the right location?</b>
You are right that it is some luck and some experience, but a lot of patience and waiting. Photo trips cater to people more agreeable to long waits for something special than a typical outing from camp. In your own vehicle you wait as long as you want wherever you want.
As to offroad, I agree that is the ideal setup. But many places that do not allow offroading, allow driving on tracks that veer off the actual road. Those tracks are plentiful. While you may not be able to get as close when adhering to offroading rules, you can position yourself properly for the light. Your powerful zoom can bring you in closer. You can weigh the costs and benefits of offroad destinations with those that don't allow offroading with the ability to have a private vehicle and see what works best for you.
Many good options.
Not any more influence than an experienced driver/guide or driver and ranger combo. Any reputable company will give you experienced personnel. You may also want to ask how long those responsible for your safari have been in the guiding business AND how long with the company.
Your recognition of correct positioning gets at positioning within the vehicle as well. Most photo trips have fewer people in the vehicle than a typical safari outing. A private vehicle gives you maximum range and flexibility for the best placement.
<b>Judging by their photos, they are either very lucky or experienced making sure the guide put them in the right location?</b>
You are right that it is some luck and some experience, but a lot of patience and waiting. Photo trips cater to people more agreeable to long waits for something special than a typical outing from camp. In your own vehicle you wait as long as you want wherever you want.
As to offroad, I agree that is the ideal setup. But many places that do not allow offroading, allow driving on tracks that veer off the actual road. Those tracks are plentiful. While you may not be able to get as close when adhering to offroading rules, you can position yourself properly for the light. Your powerful zoom can bring you in closer. You can weigh the costs and benefits of offroad destinations with those that don't allow offroading with the ability to have a private vehicle and see what works best for you.
Many good options.
Mar 15th, 2011, 04:52 AM
#30
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@ Rizzuto - Africa is sounding an expensive habit!
Thanks you for all your comments, it is a lot of information to digest.
I have now contacted a couple of agents for a private safari. We should hear back from them today.
Russel has replied to my enquiry.
What do you think about this email reply on the Photo tour?
Cost
It was communicated that $8k is excellent value for this style of safari. Included is;
1) Air Botswana flight - I was told $500 return?
2) Private Vehicles for the group to use
3) No restrictions on baggage allowance for internal flights.
4) Photographic Tutition
This is the response I got about using a tour leader in addition to a normal guide.
'The guides at Kwando safaris are excellent at tracking and spotting wildlife. Their skills are invaluable on any game drive. The photographic safaris that I run build on their ability to track cheetah for example, through positioning the vehicle for the best photographic results. This could be keeping more distance from your subject to keep a low level perspective or to capture an environmental portrait.
In my experience, photographers can rely too heavily on their safari guide to put them in the correct position. All too often, the guide parks the vehicle quite close to the subject and you start zooming in and out to get your shots. As a photographer, you should be visualising the images that you want to capture and directing your guide accordingly. In my opinion, this is the difference between a ‘good’ technical photographer and a potential award winning one.
As the safari is a photographic workshop, I will be sharing my thought process behind different shots and discuss our approach to photographing a subject. This will help develop your own photographic style, visualise different images and have the confidence to communicate your requirements on future safaris.
In addition to this, I will be providing in the field advice and informal lectures in the lodge, for example, helping you with exposure compensation under different lighting conditions.
Following your photographic safari, not only will you have captured some great safari images, you will be a photographer who has developed a style and understanding to start building a strong wildlife portfolio.'
Thanks you for all your comments, it is a lot of information to digest.
I have now contacted a couple of agents for a private safari. We should hear back from them today.
Russel has replied to my enquiry.
What do you think about this email reply on the Photo tour?
Cost
It was communicated that $8k is excellent value for this style of safari. Included is;
1) Air Botswana flight - I was told $500 return?
2) Private Vehicles for the group to use
3) No restrictions on baggage allowance for internal flights.
4) Photographic Tutition
This is the response I got about using a tour leader in addition to a normal guide.
'The guides at Kwando safaris are excellent at tracking and spotting wildlife. Their skills are invaluable on any game drive. The photographic safaris that I run build on their ability to track cheetah for example, through positioning the vehicle for the best photographic results. This could be keeping more distance from your subject to keep a low level perspective or to capture an environmental portrait.
In my experience, photographers can rely too heavily on their safari guide to put them in the correct position. All too often, the guide parks the vehicle quite close to the subject and you start zooming in and out to get your shots. As a photographer, you should be visualising the images that you want to capture and directing your guide accordingly. In my opinion, this is the difference between a ‘good’ technical photographer and a potential award winning one.
As the safari is a photographic workshop, I will be sharing my thought process behind different shots and discuss our approach to photographing a subject. This will help develop your own photographic style, visualise different images and have the confidence to communicate your requirements on future safaris.
In addition to this, I will be providing in the field advice and informal lectures in the lodge, for example, helping you with exposure compensation under different lighting conditions.
Following your photographic safari, not only will you have captured some great safari images, you will be a photographer who has developed a style and understanding to start building a strong wildlife portfolio.'
Mar 15th, 2011, 06:35 AM
#31
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The 8 nts Little Kwara, 3 nts Lagoon is a great itinerary for Botswana, perfectly suited for serious photographers.
Rains can start in November and Botswana has been wetter than average lately. But some rain clouds can add dramatic skies and unique lighting to your shots. Some of my fav shots from my last trip were rain-cloud inspired. November can get extremely hot midday, so take that into consideration.
See this weather link:
http://www.uyaphi.com/botswana/weather.htm
You can check some pricing here. None of these numbers include air transfers.
http://www.eyesonafrica.net/rack-rat...ana.htm#lagoon
The above rates would not guarantee you a row to yourself, which is crucial for serious photographers with big lenses and lots of equipment. I saw where the first 2 solos on the Russell trip pay no SS. That is a <u>huge advantage</u> if you are going alone and something I'd definitely take advantage of.
Lots of heavy equipment that is typical of photographers can trigger excess baggage fees, so your lack of those fees can save you money, and especially hassles/worries. If you search for key words "overweight" "luggage limits" on this site you'll see what a concern that is for those with heavy equipment.
I like that phrase "photographic tuition." Very clever!
For the Air Botswana portion I see included on the itinerary is "airfare from Johannesburg to Maun." Not sure if the $500 means the round trip (Joburg-Maun; Maun-Joburg) is part of the total $8000 or if the flight TO Maun is included but you pay your own flight back to Johannesburg from Maun. If you are paying your own way back, whether you are coming straight back to Joburg or extending to other areas first, try to get that ticket booked as round trip. It is less expensive than purchasing one-way tickets.
If you are looking for a professionally guided photo safari with the advantages that mode of travel offers; and you can handle the heat; and $1000/nt is about what you expected to pay; and ESPECIALLY if you are a solo willing to book early, this would be a fantastic and rewarding Botswana trip that I'd seriously consider with my megazoom, image stabilized point-and-shoot in tow.
Africa is indeed an expensive habit.
Rains can start in November and Botswana has been wetter than average lately. But some rain clouds can add dramatic skies and unique lighting to your shots. Some of my fav shots from my last trip were rain-cloud inspired. November can get extremely hot midday, so take that into consideration.
See this weather link:
http://www.uyaphi.com/botswana/weather.htm
You can check some pricing here. None of these numbers include air transfers.
http://www.eyesonafrica.net/rack-rat...ana.htm#lagoon
The above rates would not guarantee you a row to yourself, which is crucial for serious photographers with big lenses and lots of equipment. I saw where the first 2 solos on the Russell trip pay no SS. That is a <u>huge advantage</u> if you are going alone and something I'd definitely take advantage of.
Lots of heavy equipment that is typical of photographers can trigger excess baggage fees, so your lack of those fees can save you money, and especially hassles/worries. If you search for key words "overweight" "luggage limits" on this site you'll see what a concern that is for those with heavy equipment.
I like that phrase "photographic tuition." Very clever!
For the Air Botswana portion I see included on the itinerary is "airfare from Johannesburg to Maun." Not sure if the $500 means the round trip (Joburg-Maun; Maun-Joburg) is part of the total $8000 or if the flight TO Maun is included but you pay your own flight back to Johannesburg from Maun. If you are paying your own way back, whether you are coming straight back to Joburg or extending to other areas first, try to get that ticket booked as round trip. It is less expensive than purchasing one-way tickets.
If you are looking for a professionally guided photo safari with the advantages that mode of travel offers; and you can handle the heat; and $1000/nt is about what you expected to pay; and ESPECIALLY if you are a solo willing to book early, this would be a fantastic and rewarding Botswana trip that I'd seriously consider with my megazoom, image stabilized point-and-shoot in tow.
Africa is indeed an expensive habit.
Mar 15th, 2011, 07:25 AM
#32
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I've done many nights at Kwando camps, and, with one exception, their guides have been fantastic. Not only in the sense of finding wildlife, but also in the sense of understanding photographers' needs -- good positioning, not getting overly close, understanding not only what is happening at the moment but also understanding what is likely to happen in the next several minutes, etc.
Biggest downside to Kwando in my mind, <u>by far</b>, is Kwando's practice of 3-across seating. That practice seems unacceptable to me at the rates that they charge.
Biggest downside to Kwando in my mind, <u>by far</b>, is Kwando's practice of 3-across seating. That practice seems unacceptable to me at the rates that they charge.
Mar 15th, 2011, 09:20 AM
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"...Kwando's practice of 3-across seating..."
Please rizzuto or anyone, if I ever start talking about going to Kwando, remind me of this, totally un-acceptable. In fact, for me not acceptable at any camp.
Having a pro photo guide and tutor likely very helpful. Especially if you are new to wildlife photography. And you will understand/learn more if you already have a keen interest in the craft and art of photography. And done some serious reading and/or participated in a photo club.
regards - tom
Please rizzuto or anyone, if I ever start talking about going to Kwando, remind me of this, totally un-acceptable. In fact, for me not acceptable at any camp.
Having a pro photo guide and tutor likely very helpful. Especially if you are new to wildlife photography. And you will understand/learn more if you already have a keen interest in the craft and art of photography. And done some serious reading and/or participated in a photo club.
regards - tom
Mar 16th, 2011, 06:15 AM
#34
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Go to BOTSWANA - they seem to actually be protecting their wildlife in many areas. The neatest place I've ever been...ever. Classic Escapes in NY has some nice tours. Check out Wilderness Safari Lodges in the Okavango Delta area. They have several price/luxury options. I thought the classic lodges were extraodinary-I cannot imagine their premier.
Wilderness-safaris.com The lodging was great; the guides were great; they took care of everything. My photos are beyond incredible and I'm not even a good photographer.
Wilderness-safaris.com The lodging was great; the guides were great; they took care of everything. My photos are beyond incredible and I'm not even a good photographer.
Mar 16th, 2011, 09:18 AM
#35
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Classic Escapes is a good company especially for those in the New York Metro area that can meet face to face. I have met Diana Fiorentinos a few times at various trade events and she is one of their top Africa agents.
Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond
Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond
Mar 16th, 2011, 04:47 PM
#36
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The 3 across in the seat problem would not apply to the safari in question because everyone has their own row. Going to Kwando as a regular guest might result in sharing a row, unless you paid not to.
"Each photographer has their own row in the vehicle, or the front seat, which gives a low angle to your images"
"Each photographer has their own row in the vehicle, or the front seat, which gives a low angle to your images"
Mar 16th, 2011, 06:40 PM
#37
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I'm sure Wilderness safaris has a fantastic product, but, to me as a keen wildlife enthusiast with an interest in photography, their lack of a "tracker" does not suit my safari needs. I'm not trying to suggest that the game viewing standards are lower, but, it just doesn't suit my needs or specific interests ....
I had a look at the Selinda vehicle last month, very nice cars (newer cars with a roof, induvidual seats etc etc.,) - but there wasn't any leg room at all. Absolutely no leg room!!! Point being, I suppose every operator has a plus and a minus ..... Choices aplenty!!!!
That said, I still loved my very first trip to Botswana which was with Wilderness, albeit a long time ago. In 2007, I went to the Selinda reserve with mixed results (mostly good).
Couple more points from the thread, regarding Kenya/Tanzania - it's an apples and oranges comparison and fantastic in every way ........... Great game viewing even in off-season without the crowds (Mara) and superb photographic opportunities too.
I would personally put the Sabi Sands down my personal list, simply because the vehicle density is too high and many a time you need to vacate a sighting in 20 minutes. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule ..... again, not everyone's taste. Yet, as a first time traveller you are going to have a fabulous time, no doubt about it. Africa is addictive and gets into your SOUL ......
Investing in a good lens - upto your budget ofcourse, but, obviously the results vary according to the lens you use and if you love your photography it's your own decision. Getting too close to the animals, does not make for good photography, particularly images where you are looking down on the subject.
I was very lucky to travel with friends and cousins last month to Botswana - they were all first time visitors to the country (a few of them have been to the Cricket World Cup in SA before) and they loved every minute of their trip - everything from skies and stars, landscapes, incredible game viewing which they enjoyed Lions every bit as they did dung beetles, bird life, spectacular sun downer spots and picnic lunches, staying out all day with active cheetahs, the warmth and hospitality of the staff and guides at the camps (Lebala and Little Kwara).... they loved every minute of the tracking process with our trackers certainly very educative/informative and really did add to the experience of the trip.
I had a look at the Selinda vehicle last month, very nice cars (newer cars with a roof, induvidual seats etc etc.,) - but there wasn't any leg room at all. Absolutely no leg room!!! Point being, I suppose every operator has a plus and a minus ..... Choices aplenty!!!!
That said, I still loved my very first trip to Botswana which was with Wilderness, albeit a long time ago. In 2007, I went to the Selinda reserve with mixed results (mostly good).
Couple more points from the thread, regarding Kenya/Tanzania - it's an apples and oranges comparison and fantastic in every way ........... Great game viewing even in off-season without the crowds (Mara) and superb photographic opportunities too.
I would personally put the Sabi Sands down my personal list, simply because the vehicle density is too high and many a time you need to vacate a sighting in 20 minutes. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule ..... again, not everyone's taste. Yet, as a first time traveller you are going to have a fabulous time, no doubt about it. Africa is addictive and gets into your SOUL ......
Investing in a good lens - upto your budget ofcourse, but, obviously the results vary according to the lens you use and if you love your photography it's your own decision. Getting too close to the animals, does not make for good photography, particularly images where you are looking down on the subject.
I was very lucky to travel with friends and cousins last month to Botswana - they were all first time visitors to the country (a few of them have been to the Cricket World Cup in SA before) and they loved every minute of their trip - everything from skies and stars, landscapes, incredible game viewing which they enjoyed Lions every bit as they did dung beetles, bird life, spectacular sun downer spots and picnic lunches, staying out all day with active cheetahs, the warmth and hospitality of the staff and guides at the camps (Lebala and Little Kwara).... they loved every minute of the tracking process with our trackers certainly very educative/informative and really did add to the experience of the trip.
Mar 16th, 2011, 07:23 PM
#38
I've been on several safaris and my favorite places are (not in any particular order) Kenya, Botswana, South Africa and Rwanda. I think I visited Tanzania at the wrong time of year - for me (others on the same trip enjoyed it).
If you know the basics of photography (where the light needs to be, not to chop off animals in the wrong place, good composition, etc) you will do fine without a professionally guided photo safari. If your skills are pretty iffy then you probably would benefit. I've gone both ways.
Totally agree with what rizzuto said about it being your only safari (Mar 12, 11 at 8:51am). 2003 was my only safari, too. I bought some great photography gear and planned on selling it when I got back (great resale value). Then I decided I could get better pictures so I would go again one more time. BTW, I still have all the lenses and can still sell them for the same price I paid.
If you don't already have enough info and haven't seen enough photos, mine are here and are separated by year. www.pbase.com/cjw
2003, 18 nights in Jul/Aug was my first totally inexperienced photo trip and was a couple places in South Africa and Mashatu in Botswana. Solo.
2004, June in South Africa was 6 nights at MalaMala, 1 night at Notten's (near MalaMala). Solo.
2005, October 17 night professional guided photo trip. Mobile camping (non-participatory) in Botswana. www.shootthelight.com
2006, Sept was 6 nights MalaMala with my 9 & 11 year old
2007, Jan Rwanda for gorillas
2007, Feb in Kenya at several camps (around 16 nights I think). Best was Little Governor's in the Mara
2007, July in Botswana on another mobile camping 14-16 nights. www.shootthelight.com
2008, July 6 nights at Mashatu in Botswana and 4 nights at MalaMala in South Africa (self drive from Joburg-Mashatu-MalaMala-Joburg with my 2 daughters and Fodorite Carla)
2009, Sept in Tanzania at several camps and ending with 4 nights at Governor's Camp in Kenya.
If you do look at professionally guided photo trips, be sure to look at the dates. Some say it's a 12 day trip but they count days starting and ending in the US. Those days don't count in my mind.
Of the trips I have taken I would do most of them again. Actually, I have done them most of them again.
Good luck!
Cindy
If you know the basics of photography (where the light needs to be, not to chop off animals in the wrong place, good composition, etc) you will do fine without a professionally guided photo safari. If your skills are pretty iffy then you probably would benefit. I've gone both ways.
Totally agree with what rizzuto said about it being your only safari (Mar 12, 11 at 8:51am). 2003 was my only safari, too. I bought some great photography gear and planned on selling it when I got back (great resale value). Then I decided I could get better pictures so I would go again one more time. BTW, I still have all the lenses and can still sell them for the same price I paid.
If you don't already have enough info and haven't seen enough photos, mine are here and are separated by year. www.pbase.com/cjw
2003, 18 nights in Jul/Aug was my first totally inexperienced photo trip and was a couple places in South Africa and Mashatu in Botswana. Solo.
2004, June in South Africa was 6 nights at MalaMala, 1 night at Notten's (near MalaMala). Solo.
2005, October 17 night professional guided photo trip. Mobile camping (non-participatory) in Botswana. www.shootthelight.com
2006, Sept was 6 nights MalaMala with my 9 & 11 year old
2007, Jan Rwanda for gorillas
2007, Feb in Kenya at several camps (around 16 nights I think). Best was Little Governor's in the Mara
2007, July in Botswana on another mobile camping 14-16 nights. www.shootthelight.com
2008, July 6 nights at Mashatu in Botswana and 4 nights at MalaMala in South Africa (self drive from Joburg-Mashatu-MalaMala-Joburg with my 2 daughters and Fodorite Carla)
2009, Sept in Tanzania at several camps and ending with 4 nights at Governor's Camp in Kenya.
If you do look at professionally guided photo trips, be sure to look at the dates. Some say it's a 12 day trip but they count days starting and ending in the US. Those days don't count in my mind.
Of the trips I have taken I would do most of them again. Actually, I have done them most of them again.
Good luck!
Cindy
Mar 16th, 2011, 08:45 PM
#39
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Hello John...
All the choices you made in your post are the good one,but still I will suggest you to go for Tanzania,as it is one of the popular destination where many tourists every year come to have an experience of Safari...
Justin Loe.
______________
To know about villa click on http://locationvillajavea.locationvi...=Javea&lang=fr and on http://locationvillacalpe.locationvi...=Calpe&lang=fr
All the choices you made in your post are the good one,but still I will suggest you to go for Tanzania,as it is one of the popular destination where many tourists every year come to have an experience of Safari...
Justin Loe.
______________
To know about villa click on http://locationvillajavea.locationvi...=Javea&lang=fr and on http://locationvillacalpe.locationvi...=Calpe&lang=fr
Mar 28th, 2011, 03:21 PM
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I'm a photographer leading a safari for cheetah conservation in October 2011: Botswana and South Africa:
http://cheetah-watch.com/safari
With writer Peter Allison as our guide!
Join conservation photographer and National Geographic contributor, Marcy Mendelson, and famed safari guide and author, Peter Allison on a unique journey as we explore the best regions in Southern Africa to see cheetah in the wild. Luxury accommodations in spectacular settings include all game drives in open vehicles with experienced game rangers on private land that allow off road access and the ability to follow animals at night. This is truly the trip of a lifetime.
Limited to 12 guests, this eleven day rare, intimate experience will take us from South Africa’s Phinda Game Reserve to Kirkmans Kamp bordering the famed Kruger National Park and then on to the Okavango Delta in Botswana. We will be visiting areas known for wild cheetah, and will have lectures and hands-on experiences with cheetah researchers and experts. While these wonderful cats will be our focus, we will experience a great diversity of habitat and spend time tracking all the other magnificent animals and birds of the region, from the shy and elusive leopard to elephant, rhino and all the way down to the dung beetle!
http://cheetah-watch.com/safari
With writer Peter Allison as our guide!
Join conservation photographer and National Geographic contributor, Marcy Mendelson, and famed safari guide and author, Peter Allison on a unique journey as we explore the best regions in Southern Africa to see cheetah in the wild. Luxury accommodations in spectacular settings include all game drives in open vehicles with experienced game rangers on private land that allow off road access and the ability to follow animals at night. This is truly the trip of a lifetime.
Limited to 12 guests, this eleven day rare, intimate experience will take us from South Africa’s Phinda Game Reserve to Kirkmans Kamp bordering the famed Kruger National Park and then on to the Okavango Delta in Botswana. We will be visiting areas known for wild cheetah, and will have lectures and hands-on experiences with cheetah researchers and experts. While these wonderful cats will be our focus, we will experience a great diversity of habitat and spend time tracking all the other magnificent animals and birds of the region, from the shy and elusive leopard to elephant, rhino and all the way down to the dung beetle!
