I'm on a business trip from the U.K to S.A between 12th and 26th September.
I'm looking for a short stay, 3-nights, all inclusive non-particpation package for Sabi Sands or the Kruger, flying out of Jo'burg on the morning of Fri 18th, returning evening of Mon 21st.
I'm really after a fully intensive Game drive experience, walking and night drives if available and would prefer to spend the money on the cost of the quality of location and people rather than quality of accomadation. Accomadation does not have to be at all luxurious, something similar to basic en-suite canvas and thatch tents with rustic finishes and basic en-suite facilities.
Having recently (June) had a great experience with Wilderness on their Migration Routes in Botswana, I am hoping that a similar style might be available in South Africa.
Can anyone advise and recommend who what and where?
Are there any last miunute deals that might be available for a single person?

LOADS of last minute deals waiting for you!
Just contact the venue themself:

http://www.constantia-uitsig.com/pag...rlds-rates.php
Tanda Tula

http://www.constantia-uitsig.com/pag...rlds-rates.php

www.londolozi.com

all lodgings in Sabi Sands
http://www.sabisands.co.za/

www.elephantplains.com

Just contact them and ask for deals.

SV

DRJO - the deals above are true, but you must conider why these lodges are having to discount so heavily? Perhaps the quality was never there in the first place. BUT - I have been to Londolozi and the quality is there.

Here is my recomendation:
Since you are a single traveler, you need to go to a lodge that you can get to without paying a single supplement. The charter flights to the sabi sands require two seats minimum so you will have to pay double. For this reason I recommend you go by commercial air on SAA Airlink to the Sabi Sands. The flight leaves JNB every day at 1130 and lands at AAM on MalaMala property. The only lodges that pick-up at AAM are Kirkman's, MalaMala, Notten's, and Lion Sands. MalaMala has one room at main camp with no single supplment and Kirkman's camp has no single supplement no matter what. MalaMala is USD 575 per night and Kirkman's is in low season price until September 30. It should be around ZAR 3,500 per night. The flight from JNB-AAM on airlink should be about USD 450 round trip.

I recomend three nights at MalaMala with my second choice being Kirkmans.

Craig Beal

Spassvogal and Safari_Craig, many thanks for your advises. Given an even playing field in terms of cost between Londolozi, Mala Mala and Kirkmans, which do you beleive will be the greater experience for the wild-life?
As well as the morning and afternoon drives, is it possible to have night drives if requested?
I'm very interested in ALL the smaller elements that make up the eco-system but obviously the big attractions as well.
Is there a way of finding out how good the trackers and game guys are?

Londolozi has almost guaranteed leopard sightings, stream flowing thru the concession etc - all other game as well.

Mala Mala has the biggest concession - frankly: I don't like Mala Mala because of its company's "culture" (charging for soft drinks and even water as well as its treatment of staff trackers being not allowed to meet with guides after duty etc etc etc.)
I don't know whether the trackers are back at work as they had a union dispute and trackers laid down working for them for months.
I simply don't like the place. Maybe this is also because I am German and not American means I don't give a sh$$ whether a lodge has got "THAT" reputation of being "fashionable" in regard to my peers ;-) I have no peers as such ;-)

Kirkman's is an andBeyond lodge and andBeyond has great hospitality besides lodge features. Very well known for that.

Londolozi has got that camp feel towards guests as well. Here you don't need to be "repeating" before they give you the feel of being a member of the safari family. It's instantly when you arrive you have got the feeling of warm heartedly being welcome - becoming part of the whole thing.
Londo does game drives based on guest's requests - if all guests agree. They drive you as long as you want and stay as long as you wish with a leopard/lion etc. All guests in the car must agree and then anything is fine with the guide/tracker. No strict "safari routine" as far as game drive duration is concerned.

All have private concessions within Sabi Sands, all do "night drives", Londo and Kirkman's have got the trackers in front of the car. Mala Mala in the back - the heck knows why the latter has it that way. That has been discussed several times here - still I appreciate them in front because I don't want the tracker to find the tracks of any Michelin, Goodyear or Conti - I like him to find a spoor of an animal ;-)
I know now a fight is going to break loose again

Trackers are all brilliant - where in place. The majority beliongs to the Shangaan people - best trackers in South Africa. Amazing people!

The choice is yours............

Enjoy!

Cheers!

SV

DRJO -

Regarding the wildlife experience, Kirkman's Camp is on land that used to be part of MalaMala. As SV mentioned, MalaMala is the largest property in the Sabi Sadns and it used to include four seperate parcels. They "sold" the southern most parcel to Kirkman's and they still allow Kirkman's to drive on the 2nd most southern parcel. The same river that flows through Londolozi passes by MalaMala next. Londolozi has great leopard population - I have been here too. The population is so great I have sent some guests to Londolozi that did not see any lions! MalaMala has better lion population but I have also seen leopard there on every visit I have made. I have never been to the lodge site of Kirkman's Camp but I have driven on and through their property. The game viewing at all places will be exceptional.

MalaMala - they do charge for alcohol only. But, I like the colonial atmosphere. It is true that the trackers do not interact with the guests after game drives, but that has more to do with their union rules than MalaMala's rules. As the oldest and largest game lodge in South Africa, the labor unions decided to strike MalaMala first (last December) and then they were going to attempt to organize at the other lodges. The union did not succeed and did a great disservice to its members. Some of the trackers at MalaMala have been there since the early 70s (John specifically - yes a Shangaan) so the job and work conditions must not be that bad relative to other opportunites in South Africa for people with these types of skills.

Anyway - with MalaMala being only two miles from the AAM airstip and one commercial flight per day from JNB and no single supplement and USD pricing I think MM is my top rec for your particular journey.

Craig Beal

Thanks guys, I'll be trying both Londolozi and MalaMala since availability may well be tight. As I have numerous business contacts in SA (jo'burg, Durban, Bloemfontain) I'll also be asking them to triple check on any deals (ZAR having moved very nicely to the US$ or GBP).
I know all these recommendations are personal, my Wilderness experience in Botswana was great, but could well have not been everyones cup of tea, it being too wet for the migrations to have started out of the Kalahari, not a huge amount spotted in Selinda, long drive from Kasingula to Linyanti etc etc. I did'nt give a hoot since Linyanti was awesome, four guests to upwards of 5 staff in camp, a great guide, the Selinda Spillway full to bursting, 7am cheetah kill from start to finish, big old bull ele sleeping on a termite mound 8 paces from my tent in the middle of the stunning Delta etc etc etc.
So, your advises very gratefully received.

As I noted on another thread, Kirkman's is an andBeyond property and shouldn't charge you a single supplement. They are also running a "stay 3, pay for 2 nights" deal.

There are a plethora of private game reserves and lodges that you could choose from - some offer better rates than others! Within Sabi Sands there is Simbambili, Djuma, Elephant Plains, Arathusa just to name a few and there is also Thornybush which has some superb lodges - Thornybush Main Lodge, Chapungu, Royal Malewane etc etc. The travelling time from Eastgate airport (Hoedspruit) to Thornybush is possibly a bit less than it is to Sabi Sands. The lodges have a standard of two drives a day plus a bush walk timed to suit you. Everything is inclusive with the exception of your drinks bill and any curios you might buy together with a compulsory gate levy and tourism levy!

If you liked the Widlerness Safaris experience, then I think Londolozi and MalaMala would be good options. I often send clients on their first safari to MalaMala, Lion Sands, or Londo prior to their safari in Botswana. From a service consistency standpoint, I think these would be a good choice.

Since I know now you have been to Botswana, then all the discounts and specials are probably not your top concern. In general, you get what you pay for.

Craig Beal

Safari Craig, you're absolutely correct, I'm definitely looking for "full value" rather than "cheap"! Which is why I would far rather pay a premium for location, quality of drives (day/night) and guides rather than luxuriousness of the lodge. My only major need is it being non-self service, which hopefully allows more free time for the geography, eco-system, flora and fauna.
ShayTay, I also have to say that the &Beyond people do sound attractive, with a similar ethos to Wilderness.
Thanks again to all... I'll let you know what, where & when AND why!

Kirkman's used to be part of Mala Mala and still shares some traversing rights with a portion of MM.

You can't really go wrong with any of them.

Why doesn't anyone ever mention Singita? I know it's way over the top in terms of cost, but it's got the river and is about the same size as MM and Londo - just to the west of both. Just wondering - my Mom wants to go. (and of course I'll tag along if asked)

DRJO- If you enjoyed the tented experience of WS, the only places I know that are tented are in Timbavati at Tanda Tula and Ngala Tented camp. Rattray's in Sabi Sands is owned by same co as Mala Mala and on the same property. It might be an option for you.

Hi Christabir

I think that is why Singita is not mentioned - the exhorbitant cost! I used to go there, but the cost was becoming too ridiculous! Singita and Londo are smaller in size than MalaMala.

Kind regards

Kaye

Hi Christabir

Just looked up a map of the Sabi Sands - Singita and Londo look about the same size and MalaMala appears to be around twice their size. Also from the map you can see where the Sand River flows through each property - also an important factor when you have territorial cats making their territory usually around permanent water.

Kind regards

Kaye

DRJO,

I just spent 4 weeks at Kirkman's Kamp and had the most amazing time. But if I had to choose between Londoz and Mala Mala, I would go for Londoz without thinking twice!


Kaye,

I know your a big Mala Mala fan but you are misinformed regarding the traversing area of Mala Mala:

Mala Mala states this on their website:
"Comprising 13 300 ha, MalaMala shares a 19 km (12 mile) unfenced border with the world-renowned Kruger National Park and lies sandwiched between the National Park and the Sabi Sand Reserve."

From Londolozi's website:
"With over 16 000 hectares of traversing wilderness, no two game drives are ever the same."

With that being said, one should still keep in mind that Londolozi shares traversing rights with Singita on a certain piece of land and the same with Mala Mala in regards with Kirkman's Kamp.

So...Londoz is definitely not half the size of Mala Mala.

Kind Regards,

K

I also thought MalaMala was very much larger than any other camp in Sabi Sand. Here is what I found from the MM, Singita, and Londolozi web sites.

MM is 13 300 hectares, http://www.malamala.com/

Singita is 18 000 ha, http://www.singita.com/images/docume...ed-to-know.pdf
(2nd page left column, "Location")

Londolozi is 14 000 ha, http://www.londolozi.com/lodges/pioneer_camp/

Sabi Sand Reserve is 64 000 ha

From a map it does look like MM has by far the most Sand River running through it.

regards - tom
ps - I won't be going to Singita while they are 3 times the price of MM or Londolozi. But that's just me

Tom,

Have a look under "Going on safari at Londolozi". They mention having over 16 000ha to traverse on...

http://www.londolozi.com/going_on_sa...cd0344eb91a6cb

14 000, 16 000, property owned and property traversing rights are commonly different. MalaMala could claim more hectares because they can traverse on Kirkmans Kamp. Most (90%) camps do not say who they share traversing rights with, nor how many vehicles permitted at a sighting, nor how many guests maximum per vehicle. All important to the game drive experience. But the single most important factor is the guide/ranger. IMHO.

regards - tom