Aloha from Maui. Planning a Sept/Oct 2011 South Africa safari for 6 ppl. Have a tentative intinerary. Should we revise to 3 camps for 4 nights each or keep what we have going? Please be critical of itinerary . . . advice is very welcome.
Camp Jabulani 3 nights -- Thoughts on this elephant experience?
Kings 3 nights
Leopard Hills or Londolozi Tree 3 Nights
Mala Mala Rattrays 4 nights
Many mahalos from tusnami free Hawaii!

Camp Jabulani might be a nice EBS-experience but the fact that the camp is within the Kapama compound (Kapama has a sub-devision which leads big cat trophy hunting incl. canned lion hunts!) is appalling to me as the area is rather small. Kapama also conducts game drives with day tourists in big buses which might also have an impact onto the overall experience.
Last paragraph page 29:
http://books.google.de/books?id=TvGJ...unting&f=false

Finally - the "endangered spedcies breeding centre" is extremely questionable as it breeds in captivity for captivity and many cats end up on hunting farms!
Too many heavy questionmarks combined with facts which would not allow me to even consider anything which is related to Kapama!


Kings camp in Timbavati is very nice and very good value for money! Very good game drives and the wildlife experience can be excellent!

I have stayed at Londo and it's my all time favourite. The sightings are excellent. Here I would definitely stay for 4 nights! Tree camp is gorgeous!

I am not a Mala Mala fan for several reasons:
As far as I know they still have no trackers in place which makes a big different in the overall experience.
IF they have trackers they place these in the back of the car. Also a deal breaker for me personally.
Mala Mala has a very "strange" HR philosophy which dates back into the times when staff was considered a necessity to reach personal goals.
Finally: MM does not get rid of the reputation of baiting their leopards. Whether there is hunting conducted within the reserve is also a rumour which doesn't want to fade.
Many doubts regarding MM.

As you have already two choices within greater Kruger I would stick with rather 2 quality destinations than dividing time between 3 or 4 - particularly I would not change from one venue to the next within one reserve.

Happy planning!

SV

Hi There Diane,

I wish I was in Hawaii right now! I lived on Oahu for three years when I was a submarine office in the Navy. Now I live in Minnesota where it was 5F this morning! At least I get to go to Africa several times each year.

Are you thinking of going to all of these properties on the same trip? I would not recommend that at all. The properties are relatively very close together. I highly discourage my clients from going to two camps in the Kruger area much less four! I have been everywhere you mentioned except Camp Jabulani. It is personal preference but I do not like the reserves that are fully fenced. Kings, Leopard, and MalaMala are all open and unfenced to the Kruger National Park ecosystem. Jabolani, along with its sister property Kapama are in a fully enclosed reserve outside and separated from the Kruger ecosystem.

If you have 12 days to spend on safari and you don’t want to spend the money for Botswana then I recommend the following:
MalaMala Rattrays – 3 nights. The best general big five game viewing in South Africa. The largest private game reserve in South Africa. This week two of our clients even saw cheetah here and my business partner saw cheetah four weeks ago at MalaMala. They are rare in the Sabi Sands.
Phinda Vlei – a totally different area in South Africa. The best cheetah and black rhino viewing in South Africa. We saw five cheetah in one game drive last May!
Mashatu – just over the South Africa border in Botswana’s Tuli Block game reserve area. One of the largest private game reserves around!
Zimbabwe – six nights at Ruckomechi and Little Makaolo. These are two of the best camps in the country. This would be my top choice to couple with MalaMala if you don’t have a Botswana budget.
Botswana – 6-8 nights at three different camps in the Okavango, Chobe, and Linyanti. I recommend you up the budget and go here!

I guess I need to know more information. Why are you considering so many lodges so close together? As the crow flies, MalaMala is less than four miles from Londolozi and the lion prides even cross over the land. They share an entire North/South border. Have you read about these places or is an agent actually advising you to make this trip? You said be critical and I do not like your plan at all. I would never recommend what you are doing to a client of mine.

I respectfully disagree with SV's assessment of MalaMala. I have been there many times and sent many guests there. Since the trackers walked out in December 2008, the game viewing has improved as the non-unionized rangers can stay out after dark. The tracker union required them to be back in camp shortly after sunset. I saw a fantastic lion encounter there last year well after dark.

Since you are going in September try to make it to Hermanus to see the Southern Right Whales calving. You can see it from the beach!

Craig Beal

I've been to Kings Camp four times, MalaMala Sable three times, and Leopard Hills one time. All are great. Although being in Sabi Sand reserve MM and LH has slightly better game, big 5, viewing.
Do you know about the rate special for Kings Camp and Leopard Hills, (your TA should have told you)?
http://www.kingscamp.com/rates/specials.html
Pay for six nights at those camps (any combination) and stay for eight. That is a 25% discount, if $$$ are consideration.

Agree some what with Craig about staying so many nights in same area. But - I do it year after year . Agree with Craig about MalaMala.

regards - tom

Same thing jumped out to me. Too many camps on the same lands.

Fine if you want to split time between camps at Timbavati, Manyaletti and Sabi Sabi, but not two that are miles apart at Sabi.

And, do take note of cary999's comments re extended stay discounts that some properties are offering. Ask your agent about these.

I also think that's too many nights in the same area. Craig gave some excellent options. I loved Botswana in the Okavango area, Mashatu and the Sabi Sands and Timbavati. All are excellent choices. Just so you can see where the camps you are considering, check out:
http://www.sabisand.co.za/ and look for the map of the reserve.
http://www.rhinoafrica.com/destinati...the_timbavati/

Our next trip will be to Zimbabwe (the safari camps are doing well.) and Phinda is high on our bucket list. Either the Okavango or Zim combine well with Victoria Falls if that might interest you. Is your entire trip going to be safari, or are you considering Cape Town too? Sept is perfect for wildlife viewing.

IMHO, I would look into Botswana. It's really a special place with special people. Careful, though! I thought our first trip to southern Africa would be our last. I'm planning our third visit in five years.

Zimbabwe in 2010 is the best VALUE in all of Afirca IMO. Rates are 50% less than 2008 & 2009.

Craig Beal

Craig, Sandi, anyone, question please about Manyeleti Reserve. (Between the Timbavati and Sabi Sand reserves).
I was looking at the Honeyguide tented safari camps there as another one to visit in that general area. However I saw mentioned somewhere that off road game drives are not permitted in the Manyeleti reserve. So I emailed Honeyguide (reservations office?) with the question. Here is their response -

Good morning
Thank you for your email.
Unfortunately we do not allow off road drives.
Kind regards,
Janine Norval on the behalf of Alison Bell
Reservations

This sound right? Certainly crosses Manyeleti reserve off of my list.

regards - tom

Tom,

That is correct - you can't go off road in Manyaleti. But, even with that information Sande at our office went there last year and she thought it was a really good value. We send people there all the time (usually on a budget) and never get any complaints. Lions (in the day) and leopards (at night) are more likely to use the roads at places where you can't get off road because the bush is thick and not mashed down. They like the ease of walking down the roads (seems to me).

Craig Beal

Thanks Craig for confirmation.
But at R3,350 $445, pppn, that's budget prices???
http://honeyguide.hitsites.co.za/index.php?ID=9468
Also, I'm sure I'd find that very frustrating for photography.

And while I've got your ear, can you recommend another camp or two in the Timbavati (other than Kings of course)? I'm planning on Kings again, but always like to try a new one. In Timbavati I've only been to Kings. Anything in the Klaserie?

regards - tom

For Tom regarding KLASERIE:
I doubt you would like to go somewhere where animals take off as soon as they hear a car because of hunting:

http://www.sanparks.org/forums/viewt...38739&start=90

SV

It's been some years that we were at Honeyguide/Manyaletti, and as Craig mentions, I don't recall off-roading, per se. The game here were often on the road or close enough, that there was almost no reason. And, for sure you don't see another vehicle here.... whoopie!

One night (late for dinner and yeh, very dark) returning to camp we heard lions roar and our guide found a narrow track that took us to the most awful smell of an almost completely eaten small giraff with hundreds of lightening bugs flitting above. We had come upon a large pride of two massive males, half-dozen females, half-dozen year-old youngsters and maybe another half-dozen 3-4/mo old cubs. Wow! There we were sitting in the midst of these magnificent animals and clicking away. Except for some young ones curious about the newcomers, the rest were too full to give us more than a glance.

Needless to say, we didn't get to our own dinner till about 9:30pm.

SV - I went to that SNP link and it is not clear to me what is said nor why.

"What concerns me is that Klaserie have notified the outfitter that they are disallowed for the forthcoming current season."

regards - tom

As I understand a Klaserie eli had been advertised for hunting as being a Kruger eli.

Obviously SANPARKS had a chat with those people.

And yes - the quote is weird. Maybe the outfitter got punished for the ad.

Nonetheless: Klaserie obviously allows hunting which most probably has an impact onto photographic safaris.

SV

SV - "...Klaserie obviously allows hunting..."
Not obvious to me. Guess I don't have the whole story like you do!!!

regards - tom

Tom,

We have used Gomo Gome in the past but not since they moved locations on Jan 1, 2009.

I have been to Ngala Tented and Ngala Main. Both are good camps.

Craig Beal

Thanks Craig.
Gomo Gomo moved, like you said, now replaced by Simbavati, I think. Rates are very reasonable, would like to see some reviews.

I've heard Ngala tented is good but rather $$$$. I was at Ngala Lodge for 8 nights in Sep 2008 and some good things but too many important ones I found lacking, won't go back.

regards - tom

Tom,

I know you like the KNP so why don't you stay at Orpen rest camp and drive around the western border area of the KNP/Timbavati? I bought some water bottles at the rest camp and was in the lobby area at Ngala tented camp less than ten minutes later. They are very close. The central and west part of the KNP near Orpen is a very quiet area.

Craig

Tom

The first entry in that thread leads you to:

http://www.africahunting.com/hunting...onal-park.html

which is the reason for the whole lot of postings to come.

Post on page 2
Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:14 am




"It is on a private concession in Northern Kruger Park and the CITES was issued(sic) by the Parks Board. Every year there are a few CITES put out for 40 pounders to control the numbers.

Greetings
Neil Gagiano"

There you have it folks. Straight from the horse's mouth. Will elephants now be hunted in the Maluleke area? Now let's hear from Dr Mabunda what is going on.

****

Post on page 5 states "Klaserie".

But anyway - Timbavati ....Thornybush.....all are hunting areas.

SV

Thanks everyone for all the input. We did Botswana in 2007 --Chitabe, Kwetsani, Selinda and then up to River Club. So this time we wanted to concentrate South Africa. If we did:
*Mashatu 3-4 nights
*Kings 3-4 nights
*Mala Mala Rattrays 3-4 nights
*Leopard Hills 3-4 nights
Are Mala Mala and Leopard still too similar? Is Phinda Vlei a better option than Mashatu Main? If thought if we gang up Mashatu/Mala Mala and Kings/Leopard I might be better off for rates. Pafuri has been suggested but I've been reading it isn't the best for game . . . comments on this?? Our small group is good together, however one couple is used to luxury, but I'm trying to maintain a balance with game viewing as first priority . . . a bit of a challenge.