CarleenD

A lot of you read my complaint about the TA I used for a safari in Botswana. As a result, I'll do most of the planning for my next safari myself.

But our Bots trip was nothing like the safaris I've been reading about here. We stayed at the same reserve the whole time. That was fine for my first trip, but I definitely want the next one to have a greater itinerary. Problem is, I don't even know where to start. Where did you all get the information you had to plan your trip? It's AMAZING to me that you know about all these different camps, and what to expect at each.

I've traveled a lot, but almost always as a "package tourist". You guys have inspired me to stretch some, but I've just gotta figure out what step one is! Actually, I do know that I'd be going Nov/Dec '09, and I want to go to Kenya, Tanzinia, Rwanda, and the Seychelles. Beyond that, I have no idea.

Any input would be much appreciated!

Kavey

Hey Carleen
For my last big Africa trip (which admittedly was about 9 weeks long) I did a lot of research myself (on multiple internet sites including this one, from books and from travel journalism as well). From that I worked out a draft itinerary and refined it with help/ input here and elsewhere.
For the South Africa self-drive part of the trip (5 weeks) I then contacted, negotiated with and booked accommodation, car rental etc. myself directly.
For the Botswana and Namibia portions I used an agent (as Wilderness Safaris don't generally take direct bookings).

For next year's East Africa trip again I researched via various resources and created a rough draft itinerary which I then sent to a couple of safari planners/ consultants/ agents/ operators who were also able to give me some input (some based on price/budget, some on routing, some on good/ bad choices for the season and some on the criteria I'd provided to them). I chose to book directly with the East African operators via the US-based safari planner who had been so helpful.

Although some agents/ planners are really great at forming the ideal itinerary from scratch I find it more satisfying to work out a lot of what I want myself and then use the experts to help fine tune/ book it.

Good luck!

sandi

Nov/Dec '09 - first thing you should know is this is the "short" rainy season in all of these countries. There's no guarantee how much, when or if any, but something to be aware of... even though prices are lower and there maybe less tourists.

Consider October, maybe... early in the month.

Prices in Rwanda are generally constant year-round.

In October, prices go down to mid-range in Kenya, remain at peak in Tanzania. In Nov thru mid-December, prices are low in Kenya and high in Tanzania.

Not sure price structure in Seychelles.

With this in mind, for how long do you plan to travel? Two weeks? three weeks? At minimum, you should be able to cover Rwanda (4/days), Kenya (4-6/days) and Tanzania (6/days). Heading to the Seychelles, based on flight schedules out of Nairobi, is at minimum about 5/days.

As a start, that's a few things to consider.

CarleenD

Thanks Sandi! Actually, I always take 2 big trips a year - in the spring and my birthday, 11/27. It seemed that of the two, November was the better date because of the short vs long rains. Not optimal, I know, but I really couldn't work it out for any other time.

I was thinking of setting aside 3 weeks, with a week in Seychelles for diving (my 2nd passion after animals). That leaves 2 weeks for the other countries, so your suggested lengths are perfect!

CarleenD

Kavey - I like your suggestion a lot. I can come up with a base plan & then let specialists refine it. But there are so many! And I'm a bit gun-shy after my last experience. I think that will be the hardest part - deciding which outfitters to go with.

Kavey

I would say once you have your initial plans/ ideas and are ready to approach agents/ planners/ operators you could maybe ask for recommendations/ endorsements on here and other such boards...

Look for those that have a number of endorsements and look at other posts from those doing the recommending to get a feel for whether they have similar expectations/ values to you and whether their recommendation is one you think would be accurate.

atravelynn

So you have 14 days for Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda.

You have to decide if you would like to join a group or do a private safari. Private safaris in East Africa are common and done at a similar price for many group trips. Below are some suggestions for your own itinerary.

Here is a one suggestion of places that includes a variety of habitats and species--wouldn't have to be in this order

4 nts Rwanda allows 2 gorilla visits.

2 nts Samburu, Kenya
There are unique species of giraffe, zebra, antelope, and ostrich here, plus it is a good place for leopard and all around wildlife.

1 nt Aberdare/Mt. Kenya (Ark, Treetops, Sweetwater)
These places have floodlit waterholes at night. There are black and white Colobus monkeys in Aberdare. You may see rhino. Sweetwater has a Jane Goodall Chimp sanctuary for rescued chimps

1 nt Nakuru, Kenya
flamingos, rhino, different kind of giraffe

2 nts Ngorongoro Crater, Tanzania
Highest concentration of wildlife. Chance to see rhino. Spectacle.

3 nts Serengeti, Northern Part, Tanzania
The migration will likely be in the area, depending on rains.

1 nt may be needed for transit.

If you really wanted to try to see Kilimanjaro, you would have to go to a place like Amboseli, which is good for elephants. You could swap Samburu for 2 nights at Amboseli. You could also do just one night and swap one of the one nighters if logistics allowed that.

------------------------------------

Here is another suggestion that reduces traveling around and includes the areas with the most animals in both Kenya and Tanzania. Again any order:

4 nts Rwanda allows 2 gorilla visits.

3 nts Mara
always good--park with most wildlife in Kenya. Migration will probably have mostly left, but who knows because it depends on the rains. There are resident herds that remain.

2 nts Crater

4 nts Serengeti

1 nt may be needed for transit.

-------------------------------------

To get more itinerary ideas, you can look at the index Lynda put together. It also contains agent names.
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34860283

You can also look at itineraries from companies such as the one you most recently used, Micato, A&K, or Globus to name a few. Africa Adventure and Go2Africa have many itineraries and you can see some prices.

CarleenD

Both of you suggestions are excellent starting points for me. I do need to prioritize which animals I want to see most. One thing I'm not interested in is birds (I know I'm kind of odd in that regard), and I would like to see Kilimanjaro. Another post mentioned a place where giraffes could be fed? I could die a happy woman if I had that opportunity.

I don't quite understand Rwanda though - why do 4 nts only allow for 2 gorilla visits??

atravelynn

Giraffe Manor in Nairobi is where you can stay and feed the giraffes from your room. I believe they usually seek out breakfast from the guests. It is rather expensive to stay there. You can visit Giraffe Center on a several hour trip, instead of staying there, which is what I did.

Here is how Rwanda needs about 4 days.

Assuming you live in N. America here are 3 options.

PNV = Parc National des Volcanoes

Fly from US
Arrive Nairobi, Kenya or Kigali, Rwanda
1 drive to PNV (if arrived NBO, then first fly to Kigali) and o/nt PNV
2 gorilla trip #1 o/nt PNV
3 gorilla trip #2 o/nt <b>PNV</b>
4 Leave PNV and head to Kigali and fly out.

or

Fly from US
Arrive Nairobi or Kigali
1 drive to PNV (if arrived NBO, then first fly to Kigali) and o/nt PNV
2 gorilla trip #1 o/nt PNV
3 gorilla trip #2 and drive to <b>Kigali</b>, o/nt Kigali
4 Fly out of Kigali

(this is what I've done)

or

1 If you fly directly into Kigali and not Nairobi or if you have come to Rwanda after traveling in another country, then night 1 is in Kigali, Rwanda
2 Leave at 4:30 am or so for the 2+ hour drive to PNV and do gorilla trek #1 o/nt PNV
3 gorilla trek #2 o/nt PNV or Kigali
4 Leave Kigali

This leaving in almost the middle of the night is common. I didn't and wouldn't do it, but many people do to help save a day.

To see Kili, you want Amboseli (most common destination) or Shampole (fanciest), or Campi y Kanzi.(I think it is more rustic and eco. I’m intrigued by it and want to learn more. Sundowner stayed there and you can do a Find command for it or for her in the East Africa Index).

When you know what animals you want to see, then you may be able to do just Kenya or Tanzania. Doing just one saves on transportation time and costs, and visa costs. If your 2 weeks besides Seychelles has to include your flying time too, then just Kenya or Tanzania may become an even better idea.

CarleenD

Hmmm, you may be right, atravelynn. One country or the other may be sufficient. But somewhere here I read something that made me think I *had* to go to both. I want to make sure I have as broad an experience as possible, with different types of landscapes and environs. As fanastic as my safari was, I feel like I know Chobe National Park like the back of my hand, we were there for so long!

I guess my planning won't get very far if I don't start documenting the ideas I come across. They sell books for just that type of thing, don't they?

atravelynn

You also *have* to go to Zambia, Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa, Gabon and Uganda! (And so do I.) I understand that conflict between broad experience of many places and rushing about the country side.

There is a concise Fodors Africa Safari book. Also very good, but getting a bit old now, is Africa's Top Wildlife Countries by Mark Nolting.

On the inside back cover of the most recent 2003 copyright edition of the Nolting book is a list of parks and what animals are likely or rarely seen in them. That will help you.

Back to your Botswana trip. I actually like the idea of staying in one spot for some time and I've done that on several occasions. I bet if you recounted some of your sightings and experiences, you'd find that your trip had many highlights of the sort you read about here.

hguy47

Re the &quot;one country&quot; thought, if seeing Kili is important to you but you want to do Tanzania but not Kenya, you can also get pretty close to Kili from it's west side. In the West Kili/Sinya area, there are a few places you can stay, probably about 3 hour drive from Arusha (less from Kili airport). We stayed at Kambi Ya Tembo, a tented camp in that area, for a couple of nights and enjoyed it. They also took us to visit a real Maasai village while we were there.

atravelynn

Hguy47 has an excellent suggestion.

2 nights Tarangire
3 nights Kambi Ya Tembo
2 nights Crater
4 nights Serengeti
(not necessarily in that order)

That's 11, allowing a day in Arusha National Park and ample time for flying and transit.

atravelynn

Or include Lake Eyasi and the Hadzabe Bushmen if time permits.

If you want &quot;broad and different landscapes and envrions&quot;, then a collapsed crater, bushmen, the plains of the serengeti, a baobab-dotted landscape &amp; river of Tarangire, views of Kili from Kambi Ya Tembo, and the forests and maybe walking or canoeing of Arusha would fit the bill.

ShayTay

One note about feeding giraffes... You can go to the Giraffe Centre in Nairobi without staying at Giraffe Manor. You go up on a feeding platform and grab a handful of feed pellets. There are always plenty of giraffes waiting for a handout. There is a small entrance fee to go there and you can also make a donation to help with their conservation efforts.

CarleenD

Thanks for all the great input so far. My other question would be this:

How much should I expect the kind of itinerary I want (something along the lines of atravelynn's suggestions) to cost? Just a ballpark - US$5000 to maybe US$7000, not including airfare? Or am I dreaming??

Since my first safari was to Botswana, I'm a little spoiled by the low numbers of other tourists around, and especially the open-sided Land Rovers. I really ca't imagine being in a minivan. Is that for safety reason because there's so many animals in Ken/Tan? Anyway, I'm hoping to find an outfit that uses those and caters to small groups, and I'd like to do it for US$5k - $7k. Oh, this would also include my Seychelles stay, too.

Since I'm going during the short rains, I'm thinking the best way to see the most animals would be a mobile safari, since that might be tented near the current &quot;hot spots&quot;. Is that logical?

Also, do you think it be worth to start talking to tour operators now?

Thanks everyone!!

P.S. - Should this have been separate thread??

sandi

You can keep everything together, no need to start another thread.

Depending on the accommodations you choose will determine the price, so until you submit a suggested itinerary or ideas of where you'd like to visit and places to stay, will you get some idea of costs.

Mobile camps - actually there are few that are truly mobile moving every couple of weeks, rather should be referred to as &quot;seasonal&quot; where they spend a season in a particular area. Unless for some unforeseen reason, as in late '06/early '07 with much rain and the wildies moving earlier than expected did many of the seasonal camps more sooner than they would have otherwise.

As example, Olakira Camp can be located in the Central Serengeti during one period, then in the Northern Serengeti in the ther period.

Also be aware, that many of the seasonal camps are actually closed during the wet seasons, whether Apr/May or Nov/early-Dec. So, not only for guest comfort, being able to refurbish tents, but mostly to allow the grounds on which they are set-up to regenerate themselves, giving the land back to Mother Nature.

Vehicles - when doing a driving safari, the vehicles are closed (not necessarily &quot;mini-buses&quot; rather can be Landcruisers or Range Rovers - a safety precaution on long drives with lots of dust and rock/pebble kick-back. If flying into areas/camps staying on GP (game package) basis, you will find most of the vehicles will be open for use during game drives. With the exception of a few camps that actually provide a private vehicle for each tent (i.e., Nomad's in Tanzania, Serian Camp in Masai Mara), when using the camps on a GP basis, seating will be shared with other guests.

Patty

My gut feeling is that your budget is a little on the low side if it's to also include your week in the Seychelles which isn't an inexpensive destination, nor are seasonal/mobile camps, and remember each gorilla permit is currently $500 and we don't know if/when the price might increase again.

I don't think it's too early to start talking to operators and come up with a few possible itineraries. You'll get 2008 pricing and will have to budget for increases, but at least you'll have a ballpark figure.

Good luck!

atravelynn

I'd start talking. You can get an idea of who you'd like to work with when there is no pressure and nothing is filled up.