Singita Boulders or Londolozi Tree Camp?
Dec 15th, 2009 | 11:09 AM
#7
Original Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
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I'm definitely not going for the wine (haha). Drink too much of that at home 
Bottom line is I am trying to determine two different lodges to stay in. It has been suggested that I should not stay in two different lodges in Sabi Sands. SO WHICH ONE???? And where else do I stay if not in Sabi Sands? Phinda Vlie Lodge has been suggested.
Bottom line is I am trying to determine two different lodges to stay in. It has been suggested that I should not stay in two different lodges in Sabi Sands. SO WHICH ONE???? And where else do I stay if not in Sabi Sands? Phinda Vlie Lodge has been suggested.
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Dec 15th, 2009 | 12:11 PM
#8
Joined: Apr 2005
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I wish I have stayed at both Singita and Londolozi but I have not. My off the cuff recommnedation would be Londolozi -or- MalaMala Rattrays (MM has 3 "camps"). But I do want to say that I would stay minuium of 4 nights, preferably 5. It takes a couple days in camp, especially if you have not been to one before, to simply get a good feel and be comfortable with the camp routines.
FWIW, in Sabi Sand I've been to MalaMala Sable camp, Leopard Hills, and Kirkmans Kamp. Of these Leopard Hills is the most posh and smallest/intimate. Suggest you visit the MM web site, they have a very interesting video that shows the three camps and shows what a game drive is like - at any good camp. Very well done.
http://www.malamala.com/MKT_video.htm
regards - tom
FWIW, in Sabi Sand I've been to MalaMala Sable camp, Leopard Hills, and Kirkmans Kamp. Of these Leopard Hills is the most posh and smallest/intimate. Suggest you visit the MM web site, they have a very interesting video that shows the three camps and shows what a game drive is like - at any good camp. Very well done.
http://www.malamala.com/MKT_video.htm
regards - tom
Dec 15th, 2009 | 01:02 PM
#9
Joined: Jan 2009
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I would like to strongly support Tom's recommendation - staying in one place for at least 4 nights is very much rewarding.
Phinda was always on my list after our first and only visit in 1996 - you see AGES ago!
BUT
as we are very serious about conservation we were disgusted to read here a statement which said that a good portion of their cheetah population has been wiped out by vicious lions in the reserve - so very big questionmark regarding their quality and emphasis towards "game management".
Sorry for not recollecting which report it was - sometime last summer. I am sure one or the other fodorite can help out here with that info.
As you don't mention the WHY you should stay in 2 different reserves and duration of each stay I would highly recommend instead of transferring back and forth stay in one lodge!
BTW - would have been great to get some more info from you which would have enabled us to give more precise advise ;-)
SV
Phinda was always on my list after our first and only visit in 1996 - you see AGES ago!
BUT
as we are very serious about conservation we were disgusted to read here a statement which said that a good portion of their cheetah population has been wiped out by vicious lions in the reserve - so very big questionmark regarding their quality and emphasis towards "game management".
Sorry for not recollecting which report it was - sometime last summer. I am sure one or the other fodorite can help out here with that info.
As you don't mention the WHY you should stay in 2 different reserves and duration of each stay I would highly recommend instead of transferring back and forth stay in one lodge!
BTW - would have been great to get some more info from you which would have enabled us to give more precise advise ;-)
SV
Dec 15th, 2009 | 07:47 PM
#10
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
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SV - I don't remember reading about cheetahs being decimated by lions in Phinda. Can you refer me to the article/posting? Since Phinda is fenced and only about twice the size of say MalaMala (23000hec and 13000hec), wouldn't surprise me to see clever lions corner and kill the cheetahs. FWIW, if I weren't reasonably assured of seeing cheetah very game drive, I don't think I'd go to Phinda (and have not been there).
regards - tom
regards - tom
Dec 15th, 2009 | 11:18 PM
#11
Joined: Jan 2007
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SV It was me that visited Phinda last September and reported about the cheetah situation.
This was some clarification from Wildlife Manager at &Beyond Phinda Private Game Reserve.
"Phinda is a renowned Big 5 Wilderness destination with cheetah incorporated into the wonderful diversity of species within and although we are a premier cheetah destination, if that is what one is looking for, we do not regard Phinda as a cheetah sanctuary.
Our reserve is a source population for many reserves in South Africa who want to re-introduce cheetah into their historical range. We have the responsibility of managing all species on our 23000 ha reserve within an ecologically accepted balance. This does necessitate the live removal of predators to other parks and reserves from time to time.
Your guide was quite correct with regards to the 3 male lions. We actually moved 10 of our lions to a reserve in Mozambique with a subsequent re-introduction of 2 male lions from the Kalahari (this was done to improve the genetics within our resident population).
Lions are natural enemies to cheetah, and during the last year we had a cheetah population boom with 7 females having different litters within a reasonably short space of time. This meant a higher number of vulnerable cubs being easier targets for the male lions. We noted 11 cub mortalities which isn't inordinately high (approx 20 %). Although sad, we do regard this as a natural process and were not unduly alarmed. The ongoing monitoring of the remaining cheetah indicates that we are on track in terms of the population growth.
Paco, I hope that this information expands on what was passed onto you by your guide. I can assure you that Phinda’s cheetah population is alive and well, and continues to provide our guests with unbelievable "
If someone is serious about conservation should give Phinda his thumbs up.This is a successful story of restoring misused farm land into a wildlife reserve with one of the biggest reintroduction of game in Africa, Phinda was restocked with lion, rhino, buffalo, elephant, leopard, giraffe and other big game.Their cheetah reintroduction is probably the most successful ever done.
Tom ,i am sure you are not going to see cheetah in every game drive,it is not that easy to find them in more than 23.000 hectares,but to me this is part of the fun.
Boardingblonde, sorry to get out of the subject,i have never been at Singita of Londolozi.
If you consider going to Phinda here is a gallery with pictures so you can have an idea of what the reserve looks like,the landscape been very different from Sabi Sand and what you can find there.
http://www.pbase.com/africawild/phinda
I did´t stay at Vlei but we visited it and it looked amazing.
Paco.
This was some clarification from Wildlife Manager at &Beyond Phinda Private Game Reserve.
"Phinda is a renowned Big 5 Wilderness destination with cheetah incorporated into the wonderful diversity of species within and although we are a premier cheetah destination, if that is what one is looking for, we do not regard Phinda as a cheetah sanctuary.
Our reserve is a source population for many reserves in South Africa who want to re-introduce cheetah into their historical range. We have the responsibility of managing all species on our 23000 ha reserve within an ecologically accepted balance. This does necessitate the live removal of predators to other parks and reserves from time to time.
Your guide was quite correct with regards to the 3 male lions. We actually moved 10 of our lions to a reserve in Mozambique with a subsequent re-introduction of 2 male lions from the Kalahari (this was done to improve the genetics within our resident population).
Lions are natural enemies to cheetah, and during the last year we had a cheetah population boom with 7 females having different litters within a reasonably short space of time. This meant a higher number of vulnerable cubs being easier targets for the male lions. We noted 11 cub mortalities which isn't inordinately high (approx 20 %). Although sad, we do regard this as a natural process and were not unduly alarmed. The ongoing monitoring of the remaining cheetah indicates that we are on track in terms of the population growth.
Paco, I hope that this information expands on what was passed onto you by your guide. I can assure you that Phinda’s cheetah population is alive and well, and continues to provide our guests with unbelievable "
If someone is serious about conservation should give Phinda his thumbs up.This is a successful story of restoring misused farm land into a wildlife reserve with one of the biggest reintroduction of game in Africa, Phinda was restocked with lion, rhino, buffalo, elephant, leopard, giraffe and other big game.Their cheetah reintroduction is probably the most successful ever done.
Tom ,i am sure you are not going to see cheetah in every game drive,it is not that easy to find them in more than 23.000 hectares,but to me this is part of the fun.
Boardingblonde, sorry to get out of the subject,i have never been at Singita of Londolozi.
If you consider going to Phinda here is a gallery with pictures so you can have an idea of what the reserve looks like,the landscape been very different from Sabi Sand and what you can find there.
http://www.pbase.com/africawild/phinda
I did´t stay at Vlei but we visited it and it looked amazing.
Paco.
Dec 16th, 2009 | 05:32 AM
#12
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 89
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Hi. I have just returned from a trip to Africa where we stayed at Phinda Vlei and Londolozi Tree. We stayed at Singita Boulders on our last visit.
I would recommend Londolozi Tree over Boulders. The game viewing at Londolozi Tree was far superior than at Singita. The accomodation are very close, both extremely luxurious with the edge to Singita in that department.
I did not like Phinda Vlei. Although the rooms and lodge just had been completely redone..nothing worked, the service was substandard and the rooms were very small and cramped (compared to Londolozi or Singita). Also we did not have good game viewing at Phinda. We stayed for 4 nights and did not see the big 5. Cheetah, yes, we saw cheetah everyday..everydrive. By the time we left Phinda we were cheetah'd out!! Phinda is fenced and therefore they manage thier game...including putting the elephants on birth control! Which is evidently working since in our 4 night stay we did not see any elephants.
I would recommend Londolozi Tree over Boulders. The game viewing at Londolozi Tree was far superior than at Singita. The accomodation are very close, both extremely luxurious with the edge to Singita in that department.
I did not like Phinda Vlei. Although the rooms and lodge just had been completely redone..nothing worked, the service was substandard and the rooms were very small and cramped (compared to Londolozi or Singita). Also we did not have good game viewing at Phinda. We stayed for 4 nights and did not see the big 5. Cheetah, yes, we saw cheetah everyday..everydrive. By the time we left Phinda we were cheetah'd out!! Phinda is fenced and therefore they manage thier game...including putting the elephants on birth control! Which is evidently working since in our 4 night stay we did not see any elephants.
Dec 16th, 2009 | 08:26 AM
#14
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 267
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Hi.
I liked game viewing while at Phinda. To me, having good game viewing has nothing to do with seeing the big five.I enjoy much more watching baboons than buffalos,ground hornbills than sleepy lions, cheetahs than leopards or for example at Phinda ,small suni than big elephant ,but not everybody has the same preferences.
If your goal is to see the big five don´t go to Phinda,your chances to see leopard are very low,but you will get the chance to see many other interesting species you hardly will find in other places as well as a very beautiful and varied landscape.
The service at Forest Lodge last September was really excellent, the same with the food and the quality of guide and tracker.Our room was much bigger than what we need ,plus when we go on safari we like to be out as much as possible,so the size of the room is not that important to us.
Overall our experience at Phinda was very good and we specially like the people there.
Paco.
I liked game viewing while at Phinda. To me, having good game viewing has nothing to do with seeing the big five.I enjoy much more watching baboons than buffalos,ground hornbills than sleepy lions, cheetahs than leopards or for example at Phinda ,small suni than big elephant ,but not everybody has the same preferences.
If your goal is to see the big five don´t go to Phinda,your chances to see leopard are very low,but you will get the chance to see many other interesting species you hardly will find in other places as well as a very beautiful and varied landscape.
The service at Forest Lodge last September was really excellent, the same with the food and the quality of guide and tracker.Our room was much bigger than what we need ,plus when we go on safari we like to be out as much as possible,so the size of the room is not that important to us.
Overall our experience at Phinda was very good and we specially like the people there.
Paco.
Dec 16th, 2009 | 11:42 AM
#16
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
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Second camp in South Africa, yes??
The biggest change in safari landscape/look/feel would be another country, Botswana, Kenya, Zambia. SA "safari country" is all rather similar from what (admittedly limited) I've seen.
But assuming you want to stay in SA, then perhaps Madikwe Reserve, Madikwe Lodge. Or, just across the border in Botswana is camp Mashatu which has been very favorably reviewed here. Or, in the Timbavati Reserve, Kings Camp.
Which ever you decide I strongly recommend you save Londolozi for last, best for last. And stay 4-5 nights there. And also 4-5 nights at the other camp.
regards - tom
The biggest change in safari landscape/look/feel would be another country, Botswana, Kenya, Zambia. SA "safari country" is all rather similar from what (admittedly limited) I've seen.
But assuming you want to stay in SA, then perhaps Madikwe Reserve, Madikwe Lodge. Or, just across the border in Botswana is camp Mashatu which has been very favorably reviewed here. Or, in the Timbavati Reserve, Kings Camp.
Which ever you decide I strongly recommend you save Londolozi for last, best for last. And stay 4-5 nights there. And also 4-5 nights at the other camp.
regards - tom
Dec 16th, 2009 | 12:10 PM
#17
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 294
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SV - sorry I doubt anywhere can match the wine program at Singita, trust me on that one. By being interested in wine with the sommelier I could have
(a) drunk my weight in wine
(b) drunk the cost of my room
(c) both the above
And all with his delight at my enthusiasm!
(a) drunk my weight in wine
(b) drunk the cost of my room
(c) both the above
And all with his delight at my enthusiasm!
Dec 16th, 2009 | 12:13 PM
#18
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
kch246
Given that Londolozi and Singita actually border each other and even share traversing rights I think the statement about viewing being much better at one probably needs some clarification.
Either the staff didn't do a good job at one of them, which you should share, or one visit was better than the other, and thats just luck.
Given that Londolozi and Singita actually border each other and even share traversing rights I think the statement about viewing being much better at one probably needs some clarification.
Either the staff didn't do a good job at one of them, which you should share, or one visit was better than the other, and thats just luck.
Dec 16th, 2009 | 12:43 PM
#19
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,215
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napa
When we arrived at ULUSABA there was a bottle of Rubicon waiting for us in the room. For dinner you could have N.Ellis, Vergelegen, Rust en Vrede, Hamilton Russel, Glen Carlou - you mention good ones - you get it. Champagne - not an issue. Go to the bar an grab a bottle or let it be served in the room or pool or even for sundowner.
Included in the rate!
Singita can't beat that. Believe me. We stayed at both!
SV
When we arrived at ULUSABA there was a bottle of Rubicon waiting for us in the room. For dinner you could have N.Ellis, Vergelegen, Rust en Vrede, Hamilton Russel, Glen Carlou - you mention good ones - you get it. Champagne - not an issue. Go to the bar an grab a bottle or let it be served in the room or pool or even for sundowner.
Included in the rate!
Singita can't beat that. Believe me. We stayed at both!
SV
Dec 16th, 2009 | 12:51 PM
#20
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,215
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boardingblonde
As Tom mentioned MADIKWE reserve and you mention "high end" places:
Have a look at
http://www.mateyasafari.com/
Singita's General Manager stayed there as he had heard about MATEYA and was just curious what they do so perfectly right there of which his guests obviously were talking....
AWESOME lodge and the best value for money you can get for that level of service. Better than Singita (that was the reason the GM went over) ! Belive me!
The owner built that lodge for "friends and family" and she has money like dust and spent a whole lot on the lodge and its interior design.
Absolutely gorgeous!
Game drives: only 4 pay in a car!
The whole lodge (suites, dining room, boutique, spa, submerged boma which is the best design I have ever seen) is just wonderful!
Every meal is in a different seeting, different cutlery, different china etc etc etc. meals made to order.
MATEYA is simply HEAVEN!
Stay there are least for 3 nights to get it all in ;-)
Happy planning!
SV
As Tom mentioned MADIKWE reserve and you mention "high end" places:
Have a look at
http://www.mateyasafari.com/
Singita's General Manager stayed there as he had heard about MATEYA and was just curious what they do so perfectly right there of which his guests obviously were talking....
AWESOME lodge and the best value for money you can get for that level of service. Better than Singita (that was the reason the GM went over) ! Belive me!
The owner built that lodge for "friends and family"
and she has money like dust and spent a whole lot on the lodge and its interior design.Absolutely gorgeous!
Game drives: only 4 pay in a car!
The whole lodge (suites, dining room, boutique, spa, submerged boma which is the best design I have ever seen) is just wonderful!
Every meal is in a different seeting, different cutlery, different china etc etc etc. meals made to order.
MATEYA is simply HEAVEN!
Stay there are least for 3 nights to get it all in ;-)
Happy planning!
SV
