Since the original poster of this thread has not returned I respectfully wish to relay a few of my thoughts that are important to me and I consider worth mentioning in regards to the recent posts.

Leely:

You are a generous noble spirit: I am honored that you have spoken on behalf of my personal integrity. Asante sana.

Most importantly, I appreciate your input because the speculative comment made about my intentions, TO MY HORROR, infers dishonorable practices by the company I was suggesting to the posters to use as a medium as another option based from my experience to have as glorious as a time in Africa as I enjoyed.

This is why I acknowledged the comment; this is a very professional and serious company doing many important things.

One second of research via a search on my name, would have brought to the surface that I am NOT being paid by this company for a thing! In fact, at this point, with the lack of a report after five months since my safari with them and because of the reaction to my lousy writing skills in this post they probably wish I was not even a client!

I respectfully suggest that folks do a little research and not “think & post out loud” and consider the true seriousness and repercussions of their comments about unprofessional practices by any poster or business before posting them. And also, watch in awe, the methods of the really seasoned forum contributors and how they do a wonderful job at gate keeping unprofessional intentions for us all.

It feels retched to have ones personal integrity questioned so casually when you’re just trying to have a little fun while procrastinating with your tasks at hand when your mind is on reliving some of those wonderful moments in Africa through others on this forum. I don’t like it but I can take it, but it feels even worse thinking something you have done affects some businesses integrity and the livelihood of the folks they employ.

dssxxxx:

>No harm intended........ <

I believe you had the best intentions for “the good of the group” but I felt it important to share with you, as you did with me, that in my humble opinion there was, hopefully, just a little harm done.

I do wish I was as savvy and articulate at posting & writing as quickly as so many are on this forum! What a talent pool in addition to all the travel expertise.

I would have rephrased this sentence:

>Feel Free to ask me any questions about them.<

To this:

Feel Free to ask me any questions about MY EXPERIENCE with them.

But again, I add, we are not all great writers! I am even horrified & scared to make this post! Lousy writers need a break here!

>I just get a little curious when I see a C&P.<

There is a lot of copying & pasting going on-this really means nothing if one reads the content.

My message that I copied and pasted, as are others, are not directed at the folks who read every thread on the forum but for the poster looking for information.

>Killi is mentioned more in regards to climbing, then pure safari's. Just my read into it. They may be great in doing just safari's.<

Not sure if you mean the mountain Kili or the company KiliWarrior Expeditions here, but if you mean the company, again, I would suggest you read the post thoroughly and go through the links.

I am not speaking for the company and I am saddened they may be shuddering at the thought…

They do seem to be better known for their climbing on this forum, but if you go through the link one can see they have been doing safaris as long as they have been climbing.

That was one of the reasons for my post! To add another good safari company to the list!

I have been in the service industry for many years having owned and managed a resort and am very appreciative of great service.

Peace

Yours in Service,
Den

Den,

<i>&quot;I am even horrified &amp; scared to make this post! Lousy writers need a break here!&quot;</i>

You are not a lousy writer at all. I'd be very interested in seeing your report!

Thank you all for your advice, tips and good information. This is a great forum for planning a safari.

silverparrot wrote to 70 safari companies. If anyone wonders why they may not get a response from a particular operator/outfitter, this may be a very good reason.

Surprise, surprise, but the operator/outfitter community in both Kenya and Tanzania are very small; most everyone knows everyone and it doesn't take much to know when a prospective client is &quot;shopping&quot; their itinerary.

So, bring new to the forum and also &quot;shopping&quot;,although more like 10 requests, is that wrong?

Shopping isn't wrong, but 70 outfitters is IMO excessive and unnecessary. I think I contacted 6 operators for my first Kenya trip. Had I not found anyone among the 6 who I felt comfortable working with, I would've continued to contact more. I also tried to narrow it down quickly so that I wasn't repeatedly emailing all 6 operators over and over. After a few initial email exchanges, I worked with the one I felt most comfortable with (which ended up not being the one with the lowest quote) to finalize my itinerary.

I'd need to hire an assistant, upgrade my memory, and buy a new file cabinet for 70 inquiries.

<b>Sandi,</b> so what happens when the community outs a shopper?

Thanks to the great advice from everyone on the forum I was able to narrow down my request for quotes to 3 companies which I found manageable. I think any more than that would have totally overwhelmed me! Cost is only 1 factor to consider when combing through itineraries and quotes. As others have mentioned, a good rapport and great communication between you and your safari planner are crucial.

Lyn - Providers decide whether they want to continue the exercise or decide to no longer reply or being gracious - &quot;Sorry, sir/madame, there is nothing else we can do for you&quot; - or similar.

Sandi, my mistake - I did'nt realize I was creating hardship by inquiring to so many companies. Since I have an internet sevice company myself, I look at every inquiry as an opportunity to gain a new client and am happy any day I get an inquiry. Had I found the Fodor website before my planning I would have probably stuck to the half dozen or so recommended by you all. I was not looking for the best price, I was looking for a Tanzanian owned company whom I was able to best communicate with (I did not ask everyone to create an itineray).
I have ended up booking with a company not on the Fodor &quot;recommened list&quot; and am happy to give another company a chance. Again it was never my intention to cause anyone any grief, I guess the 12 years I have been saving to get to Africa made me want to make the right choice.

<b>Silverparrot</b>,
It might be overwhelming for you, but a &quot;Summary of the 70&quot; would be fascinating information for the rest of us, that is if you still have your notes. I for one would be very interested. Or maybe you'd like to hold out and write a book of your pre-safari adventures, Into Africa, or something like that.

Have a wonderful trip next month.

With 36.7 million visitors (World Tourist Organisation) in 2005, the 69 agencies that lost out on you, have plenty of other customers.

<b>Sandi</b>,
Or Others,
When there is a difference in cost between operators in a similar market, to what do you attribute that difference? Granted, there are the A&amp;Ks at one end and the big trucks full of campers on the other end and the difference between them is obvious. But those 10% or 15% differences—Is it what the guides are paid? Is it the quality of vehicles? Do more established companies just demand a slight premium because their good reputation allows it? Is it a cut to the middleman? Is it marketing costs? Is it because some companies have insurance to cover accidents and some don’t? The answer is probably a combo, but I’d like to learn what those in the know have to say.

Thanks!

It can be all of the above, from
- contract prices from the lodges/camps
- size of staff
- number of guides
- vehicle maintenance crew
- garage space
- salaries for all of the above
- benefits
- fleet and type of vehicles
- insurance
- petrol
- communications, radios and cellphones
- commissions paid to agents
- etc. etc.

Obviously, the prices for a small operation of 5/office staff, 10/guides and 15/vehicles, over an operation twice or three times the size.

All the costs associated with running a reputable operation.

Just because automatic systems allows us the ability mass to send out mass mailings doesn't mean we have to.

If I received responses from only half the number inquiries you sent, I wouldn't have the time or want to go through all of them.

For me, 4 - 6 requests would be more than sufficient; only if none of these could provide what I was seeking would I send out a few more. This held true even before so much information was available online. Regardless where I was traveling, I never had more than about 6 brochures to review and always found a resource to meet my needs.

Silver-parrot
What you did is not wrong it is a buyers market not a sellers
If you want to email 70 companies do it
it is after all your time and money and most important your safari
if you email 10 companies or 20 or 70 you will quickly find the ones who
a) reply
b) suit you
and c) want to do your trip

If all safari shoppers asked for 70 price quotes before selecting an outfitter, then the average safari outfitter would sell only 1 trip for every 70 prices quotes that the agent prepared.

If I were a safari outfitter and found that I was preparing 70 quotes to get 1 sale, I would either get out of the business or would raise my prices.

Without getting into gaming principles, it seems to me to be irresponsible to ask for 70 quotes. Depending on the complexity of the itinerary, I'd guess that putting together a quote and responding would take anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour or more. Would you really want to put together such a quote if 69 out of 70 of such quotes result in No Sale?

Rizutto,
In hindsight I agree...when i was on-line looking at choices and information available I found that many of the outfitters had address in the US....I thought I was doing business with mostly American business in the North American way (and some of the responses did come from the US). I also had read that some business' were not truly legitimate and I thought I was doing research. (I found no evidence of scams or such that I could figure out. I had not yet found the Fodors website and the valuable knowledge I have since learned from it.)
I did find many kind, professional, Tanzanian tour outfitters and I think that doing business with any number of them would be enjoyable...
Again, my most humble apologies to the tour companies.

Sandi, thanks for the info.

Silverparrot, So where will you be going in March?

I'm jumping into the river but the stream has already flowed on, so bear with me. Someone else mentioned Access2Tanzania earlier in this thread. I'm not a shill (strange to even have to make that claim...) -- we had a truly wonderful safari in TZ last November with Access2Tanzania. They put together a perfect trip based on the budget we gave them (low to middle $$) and were willing to flex it if we expressed a need to step up in luxury as the safari unfolded. The only place we felt had gone to seed after previous visits (and A2T quite agreed when we described it later) was Lake Natron Luxury Tented Camp. But literally every other aspect of the trip was wonderfully memorable: reliable and comfy vehicle, great driver (Ray, who's really an ambassador for his country, its wildlife, economics, politics), opportunitites to connect with the daily lives of Tanzanians, excellent animal spotting (from elephant to dung beetle), and trustworthy staff. I'd use them again.

We're traveling with A2T in September, so I was glad to see your report. Where did you go/stay?

With A2T we visited mostly northern-circuit places: we started in Arusha, went on to Tarangire, Lake Manyara, Lake Natron, Serengeti, Ngorongoro; also balloon safari and side trip to visit school in Mugumu. Rains were just starting, as was wildebeest migration. Where do you plan to go?