Sabi sands wobble .. should we go to Botswana instead
Dec 5th, 2007, 06:08 AM
#21
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Looks like Botswana is where my heart is but a little investigation means my head says Sabi Sands. It will take 3 flights to get to a Botswana camp from Cape Town, AND I have to overnight in J'berg on the way back to make the Mozambique connection. Nottens sounds like my kind of place anyone have a recommendation of where else I could go possibly to get a smaller more intimate experience than Mala Mala and possibly somewhere with a good view...to get that wide open space feel? or should I just bite the bullet and go to Mala Mala after Nottens and hope for action and leopards? I have 6 days so that would be 3 days in each of 2 camps. Thanks Yvonne
Dec 5th, 2007, 06:19 AM
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I just returned last month from both Mala Mala and Mombo-incredible leopards at Mala Mala. Everyday. Sleeping, playing, walking, pairs in trees, single males hanging out on termite mounds, the lactatcing mom whose two cubs are now being spotted and of course, awesome lion viewing. The Cheetahs were more scarce, but found on the last morning.
Mombo Camp was simply amazing. Yes, the lions were everywhere, made for great photos, especially the two month old cubs, and a few leopards and cheetahs.
Based on your schedule, my suggestion is put the extra airfare money toward a few more days at Mala Mala and take an extra meg card. You will need it.
Say hi to Nils who wrote the book "Living with Leopards"-that says it all.
Mombo Camp was simply amazing. Yes, the lions were everywhere, made for great photos, especially the two month old cubs, and a few leopards and cheetahs.
Based on your schedule, my suggestion is put the extra airfare money toward a few more days at Mala Mala and take an extra meg card. You will need it.
Say hi to Nils who wrote the book "Living with Leopards"-that says it all.
Dec 5th, 2007, 06:30 AM
#23
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Brandywine,
It's a special occassion for my parents ..... and a gift for them.
And most importantly, we get a seperate car for a party of 4 at Rattray's ...... that's something i consider luxury.
No point in rushing around in crowded vehicles with 6 and 8 people in them at the other lodges, is it?
Hari
It's a special occassion for my parents ..... and a gift for them.
And most importantly, we get a seperate car for a party of 4 at Rattray's ...... that's something i consider luxury.
No point in rushing around in crowded vehicles with 6 and 8 people in them at the other lodges, is it?
Hari
Dec 5th, 2007, 10:41 AM
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Yvonne,
There are just so many really nice lodges in the Sabi Sand and gameviewing is pretty much universally strong.
Some of my favorites:
Vuyatela (www.djuma.co.za)
I just had fantastic gameviewing here a couple weeks ago, seeing 4 or 5 different leopards during my 3 night stay, as well as good lion sightings, a herd of about 400 buffalo, good rhino sightings and decent elephant sightings.
Simbambili (www.simbambiligamelodge.co.za)
As far as luxury goes, not far behind Singita, in my opinion
Sabi Sabi Earth Lodge
BEAUTIFUL LODGE, comparable, in my opinion to Singita but with a very unique style all its own.
Sabi Sabi Little Bush Lodge
EXCELLENT value for money with very nice accomodations and beautiful grounds.
Sabi Sabi Selati Camp
I really love the layout of this property and it offers a wonderful happy medium as far as luxury and value goes. While it lacks the private plunge pools of the true luxury camps, it does have a beautiful swimming pool and the rooms are very luxuriously appointed.
Singita Boulders
Amazing if it is in the budget.
I did find Sabi Sabi to be a well oiled machine and the guides worked wonderfully together in locating terrific sightings and sharing them with the other Sabi Sabi guides, as I imagine would also be the case at a Mala Mala or other property with a higher bed count. I never felt cramped in Sabi Sabi as one may fear if they compared the size of Sabi Sabi to a Singita or Mala Mala.
Good luck with your decision!
There are just so many really nice lodges in the Sabi Sand and gameviewing is pretty much universally strong.
Some of my favorites:
Vuyatela (www.djuma.co.za)
I just had fantastic gameviewing here a couple weeks ago, seeing 4 or 5 different leopards during my 3 night stay, as well as good lion sightings, a herd of about 400 buffalo, good rhino sightings and decent elephant sightings.
Simbambili (www.simbambiligamelodge.co.za)
As far as luxury goes, not far behind Singita, in my opinion
Sabi Sabi Earth Lodge
BEAUTIFUL LODGE, comparable, in my opinion to Singita but with a very unique style all its own.
Sabi Sabi Little Bush Lodge
EXCELLENT value for money with very nice accomodations and beautiful grounds.
Sabi Sabi Selati Camp
I really love the layout of this property and it offers a wonderful happy medium as far as luxury and value goes. While it lacks the private plunge pools of the true luxury camps, it does have a beautiful swimming pool and the rooms are very luxuriously appointed.
Singita Boulders
Amazing if it is in the budget.
I did find Sabi Sabi to be a well oiled machine and the guides worked wonderfully together in locating terrific sightings and sharing them with the other Sabi Sabi guides, as I imagine would also be the case at a Mala Mala or other property with a higher bed count. I never felt cramped in Sabi Sabi as one may fear if they compared the size of Sabi Sabi to a Singita or Mala Mala.
Good luck with your decision!
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:01 PM
#26
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Evryone has been so helpful as ever!
Roccco Sabi sands bush camp looks great my only concern is that Nottens seems to share traversing rights with this property so I wonder if I am repeating myself by spendong 3 days here. Anyone have a view on Lepoard Hills? Its more money than Í had anticpated.. and I've read some mixed reviews but what I like is the idea of its location and huge viewds, itmight help with my slight clostrophobia
Yvonne
Roccco Sabi sands bush camp looks great my only concern is that Nottens seems to share traversing rights with this property so I wonder if I am repeating myself by spendong 3 days here. Anyone have a view on Lepoard Hills? Its more money than Í had anticpated.. and I've read some mixed reviews but what I like is the idea of its location and huge viewds, itmight help with my slight clostrophobia
Yvonne
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:14 PM
#27
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I spent five nights at Leopard Hills last May 2007. Gorgeous camp, plush, room plunge pool, etc. if that counts a lot for you. With ranger Marius the game drives were as good (perhaps better than) as any other camp I've been to. LH is smaller and more "intimate" than Mala. Whether the additional $200(?) pppn for Leopard Hills is worth it over MalaMala main camp depends on the size of your wallet.
Some people like to comment on MalaMala without ever having been there (Roccco, are you ever going to go?). I have been to MM three times totaling 14 nights.
regards - tom
ps - FWIW, forgot to mention that LH rate includes all drinks including alcohol. At MM you pay even for Cokes, FWIW
Some people like to comment on MalaMala without ever having been there (Roccco, are you ever going to go?). I have been to MM three times totaling 14 nights.
regards - tom
ps - FWIW, forgot to mention that LH rate includes all drinks including alcohol. At MM you pay even for Cokes, FWIW
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Tom,
One day I will get to Mala Mala. Honestly, however, the main reason why I was back in the Sabi Sand, period, this time around, was to enjoy a bit of "Safari Lite" and keep it all local within South Africa as I only had 9 nights on my recently completed visit. It was the first time safari for my travel companion and I wanted to keep her in the comforts of 5* luxury. With only 3 nights in the Sabi Sand, I chose to return to Vuyatela for both its location and its unique design. It is the only time, to date, that I have revisited a Sabi Sand property, although I would definitely return to each and every property in the Sabi Sand I have visited.
With my experiences in Tanzania, Botswana and Zambia, I would really have a hard time spending more than a few nights in the Sabi Sand. As I have said in the past, I accept the Sabi Sand as a wonderfully sweet dessert, but when it comes to the main course, I much prefer Zambia or Botswana.
One day I will get to Mala Mala. Honestly, however, the main reason why I was back in the Sabi Sand, period, this time around, was to enjoy a bit of "Safari Lite" and keep it all local within South Africa as I only had 9 nights on my recently completed visit. It was the first time safari for my travel companion and I wanted to keep her in the comforts of 5* luxury. With only 3 nights in the Sabi Sand, I chose to return to Vuyatela for both its location and its unique design. It is the only time, to date, that I have revisited a Sabi Sand property, although I would definitely return to each and every property in the Sabi Sand I have visited.
With my experiences in Tanzania, Botswana and Zambia, I would really have a hard time spending more than a few nights in the Sabi Sand. As I have said in the past, I accept the Sabi Sand as a wonderfully sweet dessert, but when it comes to the main course, I much prefer Zambia or Botswana.
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:48 PM
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Roccco, my next safari is also going to be like you say a "Safari Lite" (for several unique reasons). Not only am I staying in South Africa but also staying within the Timbavati Reserve. At this moment I have reserved (September) 8 nights at Kings Camp and 6 nights at Ngala Lodge. I really would like to do a mobile safari in the Serengeti as you mentioned in another current thread. Maybe in 2009.
regards - tom
regards - tom
Dec 5th, 2007, 01:12 PM
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Tom, if you want to do a mobile safari in the Serengeti without the other Northern Circuit stops, consider going on to Katavi and even Mahale in western Tanzania. Katavi is really remote and looks interesting.
As to the current thread, Kirkman's is also an alternative in Sabi Sands. It used to be part of Mala Mala and has limited traversing rights with MM. Unless the prices have gone up significantly when CC Africa took over management, it is usually considered to be a medium-priced property.
As to the current thread, Kirkman's is also an alternative in Sabi Sands. It used to be part of Mala Mala and has limited traversing rights with MM. Unless the prices have gone up significantly when CC Africa took over management, it is usually considered to be a medium-priced property.
Dec 5th, 2007, 01:49 PM
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Yvonne,
According to CCAfrica's website, their low rates kick in on April 1st of 2008, so that may be within your budget if your time is extending past the last of March and into April. Kirkmans or Exeter in Sabi Sands, although I don't think Exeter would meet your rustic criteria. Also, I think that Exeter being in the western region of Sabi Sands would be more crowded than MM area, Hari and a few others here can comment on that.
There's also Ngala Tented camp in the Timbavati which would give you a tented camp experience to maybe combine with a Sabi Sands camp.
According to CCAfrica's website, their low rates kick in on April 1st of 2008, so that may be within your budget if your time is extending past the last of March and into April. Kirkmans or Exeter in Sabi Sands, although I don't think Exeter would meet your rustic criteria. Also, I think that Exeter being in the western region of Sabi Sands would be more crowded than MM area, Hari and a few others here can comment on that.
There's also Ngala Tented camp in the Timbavati which would give you a tented camp experience to maybe combine with a Sabi Sands camp.
Dec 5th, 2007, 05:34 PM
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Brandywine,
I was at Exeter Dulini in August 2006 for 3 nights. Nice lodge, food etc etc., good leopard and lion viewing like anywhere in the SSGR. However, the short sightings etc etc., associated with shared traversing rights were not to my liking. Good ranger/tracker and all. Also, the general game was lacking there.
All of this said, we had great luck watching a female leopard (Makubela, i think) hunt and kill Nyala. Lucky because this was less than a KM from our lodge and the other trucks went back for dinner etc etc.,
Oh, the Eyerfield males were hanging onto the Western SSGR back then......
Hari
I was at Exeter Dulini in August 2006 for 3 nights. Nice lodge, food etc etc., good leopard and lion viewing like anywhere in the SSGR. However, the short sightings etc etc., associated with shared traversing rights were not to my liking. Good ranger/tracker and all. Also, the general game was lacking there.
All of this said, we had great luck watching a female leopard (Makubela, i think) hunt and kill Nyala. Lucky because this was less than a KM from our lodge and the other trucks went back for dinner etc etc.,
Oh, the Eyerfield males were hanging onto the Western SSGR back then......
Hari
Dec 5th, 2007, 06:27 PM
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Hari,
Yes, I was thinking that you mentioned that sightings were cut short in the western sector of Sabi Sands due to shared sightings. It does seem like cat sightings are good there according to your report and others, but when we went to Madikwe, most good sightings (dogs, cheetah, etc.) required queing because of the shared sightings, and we were not crazy about that. The western part of Sabi Sands does seem to have some very nice camps, some good guides, and good prices during their winter months, but maybe too crowded?
Tom, how was your experience at Leopard Hills, did you have to que for sightings because of the shared vehicles? Did it seem a bit crowded to you?
Yes, I was thinking that you mentioned that sightings were cut short in the western sector of Sabi Sands due to shared sightings. It does seem like cat sightings are good there according to your report and others, but when we went to Madikwe, most good sightings (dogs, cheetah, etc.) required queing because of the shared sightings, and we were not crazy about that. The western part of Sabi Sands does seem to have some very nice camps, some good guides, and good prices during their winter months, but maybe too crowded?
Tom, how was your experience at Leopard Hills, did you have to que for sightings because of the shared vehicles? Did it seem a bit crowded to you?
Dec 5th, 2007, 07:09 PM
#35
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brandywine - Here is link to my Fodors trip report of May 2007 for Leopard Hills. Also included are Madikwe Hills and Kings Camp.
http://tinyurl.com/2wqvxq
It being May and off season, I'm not sure what effect this had, if any, for viewing que. But at Leopard Hills and Kings Camp the viewing was as for as long as we wanted. (Not so at Madikwe Hills). And no, not crowded. Just to mention again, the ranger at Leopard Hills, Marius, was outstanding and an avid photographer. We were very much on the same "wave length".
regards - tom
http://tinyurl.com/2wqvxq
It being May and off season, I'm not sure what effect this had, if any, for viewing que. But at Leopard Hills and Kings Camp the viewing was as for as long as we wanted. (Not so at Madikwe Hills). And no, not crowded. Just to mention again, the ranger at Leopard Hills, Marius, was outstanding and an avid photographer. We were very much on the same "wave length".
regards - tom
Dec 5th, 2007, 07:15 PM
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Brandywine,
Yes .... there was a que for sightings as all the properties share traversing rights within the westernSSGR. I am told that when lodges are not full, it isn't that bad .... but, i'm not willing to take another chance. Some of the trucks i saw from neighboring properties were jam-packed!
Lots of cats there, but what is the point when you stay with them for very short periods?
Exeter Dulini has two vehicles that go out on drive. (max of 6)
Yes .... there was a que for sightings as all the properties share traversing rights within the westernSSGR. I am told that when lodges are not full, it isn't that bad .... but, i'm not willing to take another chance. Some of the trucks i saw from neighboring properties were jam-packed!
Lots of cats there, but what is the point when you stay with them for very short periods?
Exeter Dulini has two vehicles that go out on drive. (max of 6)
Dec 6th, 2007, 10:15 PM
#37
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Hi Yvonne
What great advice you have received, why do you not consider combining the Timbavati and The Sabi Sands for 6 nights do 3 nights at Tanda Tula and 3 nights at Nottens, it is a great combination.
What great advice you have received, why do you not consider combining the Timbavati and The Sabi Sands for 6 nights do 3 nights at Tanda Tula and 3 nights at Nottens, it is a great combination.
Dec 6th, 2007, 10:53 PM
#39
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Johan- Yes, Marius Coetzee, Leopard Hills. I'm not sure I could go back to LH unless he were my guide. He posts a lot of his photos on http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/
I rather like that site, lot of good nature photographers there with a lot of Africa photos. And, a lot of good commentators/comments about the photos. I'm going to join up one of these days and toss out some of my African photos. And also make comments about others
regards - tom
ps - I note that you are active on that site also.
I rather like that site, lot of good nature photographers there with a lot of Africa photos. And, a lot of good commentators/comments about the photos. I'm going to join up one of these days and toss out some of my African photos. And also make comments about others
regards - tom
ps - I note that you are active on that site also.
Dec 7th, 2007, 02:03 AM
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Yes Doogle I have had fabulous advice and i really do appreciate it. I hadn't thought of going outside of Sabi Sands because of the leopards,is the leopard viewing equally good in Timbavati ?Is the scenery similar, I guess I just hadn't really considered the area properly, Y
