Sabi sands wobble .. should we go to Botswana instead
Dec 4th, 2007, 11:20 AM
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Sabi sands wobble .. should we go to Botswana instead
I'm in real distress over what to do at the end of March next year. We have 6 days to go on safari, in between Cape Town and Mozambique. I had planned to go to Sabi Sands for the leopards, which we really really want to see. Possibly Nottens for the company, or Mala Mala or Elephant plains.. or 2 or the aforementioned. But I'm having a wobble.. we love real Africa, rustic accomodations, empty spaces and big big skies and lovely company.. should we go to Botswana instead. If so where and what is our likelihood of seeing Leopards. We can't afford big big bucks like Mombo, but medium rates, game viewing and a friendly camp is the most important. What shall we do we need to decide very soon.. Yvonne
Dec 4th, 2007, 11:26 AM
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I think Mashatu Tent Camp would be good for you. Rustic yet nice and well priced. We saw leopards, cheetahs and lions. Plus everything else except buffalo and hippo. Tons of elephants...I think over 300. Plus they just re-introduced wild dogs back into the reserve.
www.mashatu.com/tentcamp.htm
PS..take me with you
Scott
www.mashatu.com/tentcamp.htm
PS..take me with you
Scott
Dec 4th, 2007, 01:14 PM
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Yvonne,
For what you have described as your goal, "real Africa, rustic accomodations, empty spaces and big blue skies and lovely company", I would have to suggest Botswana.
Although Little Kwara is not rustic, it is very nicely priced in March and is about one of the most exclusive camps you will come across with only 5 or 6 rooms. I heard sooooo much wildlife from my room each of my 3 nights there, including a gruesome sounding fight to the death between hippos (the corpse of one hippo was found the next day).
I also loved Lebala and had the most amazing wild dog sighting there, rivaled only by a wild dog sighting I had about 10 days ago in Madikwe Private Game Reserve in South Africa.
I have been to the Sabi Sand in March and I did have very good game viewing (this on my first trip back in 2002 while at Singita) but you will be in high season pricing while the pricing will be fantastic in Botswana, at least at some properties like Kwando's.
Thanks for the welcome back...good to be back!
For what you have described as your goal, "real Africa, rustic accomodations, empty spaces and big blue skies and lovely company", I would have to suggest Botswana.
Although Little Kwara is not rustic, it is very nicely priced in March and is about one of the most exclusive camps you will come across with only 5 or 6 rooms. I heard sooooo much wildlife from my room each of my 3 nights there, including a gruesome sounding fight to the death between hippos (the corpse of one hippo was found the next day).
I also loved Lebala and had the most amazing wild dog sighting there, rivaled only by a wild dog sighting I had about 10 days ago in Madikwe Private Game Reserve in South Africa.
I have been to the Sabi Sand in March and I did have very good game viewing (this on my first trip back in 2002 while at Singita) but you will be in high season pricing while the pricing will be fantastic in Botswana, at least at some properties like Kwando's.
Thanks for the welcome back...good to be back!
Dec 4th, 2007, 02:52 PM
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Here's my limited two cents worth. I haven't been to any of the Kwando camps, so can't say much about them, although all I have read indicates they are very nice. I have also not been to Sabi Sands. But I did go to Mashatu Tented Camp in 2004, and although it likely qualifies as "rustic," we thought it was very comfortable and friendly and the landscape and game were very good. As for pricing, the e-gnu site, which I realize can be misleading but has some use for comparisons, lists Mashatu at $200 pppd (drinks in camp not included), while Lebala and Kwara are listed at $400-$440 pppn in March 2008, and Mala Mala Main Camp at $575. Pretty big price differences, without any other elements being factored in. Also, the Kwando camps and Mashatu are obviously in different parts of Botswana, and Mala Mala in SA.
As always, difficult comparisons, tough choices. Have fun.
As always, difficult comparisons, tough choices. Have fun.
Dec 4th, 2007, 03:06 PM
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Mashatu has gotten great reports for leopard, the one species you mentioned. Other than Mombo, which I know you are not interested in, I don't think other Botswana camps are as reliable for leopard. Not that you can ever count on leopard or any cat, for that matter.
The other factors you state that you want from your trip do not spell out Sabi Sands to me, even though I think you'd be very happy with the leopard sightings there.
If I were you, I'd see how the logistics and transport to/from Mashatu work and I'd arrange to have at least 3 nights in the camp (not the lodge) there. Then I'd decide how to utilize any extra days.
Good luck!
The other factors you state that you want from your trip do not spell out Sabi Sands to me, even though I think you'd be very happy with the leopard sightings there.
If I were you, I'd see how the logistics and transport to/from Mashatu work and I'd arrange to have at least 3 nights in the camp (not the lodge) there. Then I'd decide how to utilize any extra days.
Good luck!
Dec 4th, 2007, 04:39 PM
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Mombo has been poor for any predators other than Lion for some months. A friend recently returned from Savuti where he saw Lions, leopard, Cheetah and Dogs.
Mashatu was excellent for Leopard when I visited, and has Cheetah, Dogs and Lions, and is a great price.
Mashatu was excellent for Leopard when I visited, and has Cheetah, Dogs and Lions, and is a great price.
Dec 4th, 2007, 05:36 PM
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Lynn,
My guess is the lions prides dominate the area at the moment shutting out the other predators. But, in terms of lion density .... maybe Mombo even beat Duba? Who knows ......
Btw, the Peter Allison book has a short story about how Mathatha and her pride came about. Read it?
My guess is the lions prides dominate the area at the moment shutting out the other predators. But, in terms of lion density .... maybe Mombo even beat Duba? Who knows ......
Btw, the Peter Allison book has a short story about how Mathatha and her pride came about. Read it?
Dec 4th, 2007, 11:08 PM
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Dear Yvonne
What everyone is forgetting is the cost of you getting to Botswana. The airtickets are much more expensive, you then have the intercamp flights, etc etc, it is going to cost you a lot more to get to Botswana and if you are doing Cape Town and Mozambique, the Sabi Sands is slap bang in the middle, not sure where in Mozambique you are going to but you can fly from Kruger to Vilancoulos!
I personally love Nottens, and I promise you if you tell Gilly Notten when you arrive that you want to see Cheetah, they will drive and rive until you find a cheetah, they are warm lovely people and you cannot go wrong staying at this camp. I know that Elephant Plains looks lovely but it is not in the greates part of the Sabi Sands, I would stick to either NOttens or Mala Mala, they are both in a great area, and this is where the book The Leopard of Londolozi came from, so even a day or two at Londolozi could not hurt.
What everyone is forgetting is the cost of you getting to Botswana. The airtickets are much more expensive, you then have the intercamp flights, etc etc, it is going to cost you a lot more to get to Botswana and if you are doing Cape Town and Mozambique, the Sabi Sands is slap bang in the middle, not sure where in Mozambique you are going to but you can fly from Kruger to Vilancoulos!
I personally love Nottens, and I promise you if you tell Gilly Notten when you arrive that you want to see Cheetah, they will drive and rive until you find a cheetah, they are warm lovely people and you cannot go wrong staying at this camp. I know that Elephant Plains looks lovely but it is not in the greates part of the Sabi Sands, I would stick to either NOttens or Mala Mala, they are both in a great area, and this is where the book The Leopard of Londolozi came from, so even a day or two at Londolozi could not hurt.
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:11 AM
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Oh no now I'm really confused! Doogle you have been to Nottens and I did think it looked lovely and friendly but I have read reports that the concession is small, and game limited, what do you think? Yvonne
Dec 5th, 2007, 12:54 AM
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Hello IvonneM.
Canīt speak about Sabi Sands (witch iīll love to visit)
"rustic accommodations, empty spaces , big big skies and lovely company".
Thatīs the experience we had one month ago at Lebala and Lkwara(well Lkwara not rustic but very nice).In 2 days at Lebala we had lion,leopard and wild dogs and in 4 days at Kwara we had lion,leopard and cheetah, but you know this is never guarantied.
Very important to me was the guiding quality and the good numbers on other wildlife witch i enjoy as much as predators.
Paco.
Canīt speak about Sabi Sands (witch iīll love to visit)
"rustic accommodations, empty spaces , big big skies and lovely company".
Thatīs the experience we had one month ago at Lebala and Lkwara(well Lkwara not rustic but very nice).In 2 days at Lebala we had lion,leopard and wild dogs and in 4 days at Kwara we had lion,leopard and cheetah, but you know this is never guarantied.
Very important to me was the guiding quality and the good numbers on other wildlife witch i enjoy as much as predators.
Paco.
Dec 5th, 2007, 01:32 AM
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Hi Yvonne
I have been to Nottens, Ihave in fact been about 6 times, bear in mind they donot have proper electricity they run everything by generators, it is still wonderful.
Their concession is only 800 hectares, but they share traversing rights with Sabi Sabi, so you do go onto the Sabi Sabi property.
I am not sure how much time you have for the bush, but if you combine Nottens and Tanda Tula, or Vuyatela and NOttens, you will have a wonderful safari, of this I have no doubt!
I have been to Nottens, Ihave in fact been about 6 times, bear in mind they donot have proper electricity they run everything by generators, it is still wonderful.
Their concession is only 800 hectares, but they share traversing rights with Sabi Sabi, so you do go onto the Sabi Sabi property.
I am not sure how much time you have for the bush, but if you combine Nottens and Tanda Tula, or Vuyatela and NOttens, you will have a wonderful safari, of this I have no doubt!
Dec 5th, 2007, 04:54 AM
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"rustic accommodations, empty spaces, big big skies and lovely company".
Yep, that's Botswana not Sabi Sands.
We saw leopards on every game drive at King's Pool. Along with hundreds and hundreds of elephants and cape buffalo.
Yep, that's Botswana not Sabi Sands.
We saw leopards on every game drive at King's Pool. Along with hundreds and hundreds of elephants and cape buffalo.
Dec 5th, 2007, 06:08 AM
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Erica, calling Kings Pool "rustic"???
I loved Kings Pool, beautiful setting and tents, excellent food, good game viewing, but rustic? My only point being that going to Botswana does not automatically make for a rustic experience. I do have to say that the fact of flying into the camps on small planes does give you the feeling of being more isolated, you are much further from "civilization" than Sabi Sands.
Surprisingly, my least crowded safari experience so far was probably at Londolozi during the first part of June several years ago. Maybe we were just lucky that the camps were only about half full, compared to the camps in Botswana being totally full. And yes, we saw leopards every day there! I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but don't think Sabi Sands has to be excluded, especially if you want to see leopards.
Yvonne, I'm not sure what you mean by "lovely company", or why that would differ from SA or Bostwana. I think it is just luck of the draw if you happen to like your vehicle companions, besides in six days, you will have different people coming and going. We have only been on two safaris, but generally have found everyone to be polite, on time for drives, and interested in most everything. I know that there are several "old timers" here that complain about visitors all the time, but we haven't had any real issues.
Hari, on another note, if you see this, you're going to Rattray's? What about the luxurious accommodations, the internet?
I loved Kings Pool, beautiful setting and tents, excellent food, good game viewing, but rustic? My only point being that going to Botswana does not automatically make for a rustic experience. I do have to say that the fact of flying into the camps on small planes does give you the feeling of being more isolated, you are much further from "civilization" than Sabi Sands.
Surprisingly, my least crowded safari experience so far was probably at Londolozi during the first part of June several years ago. Maybe we were just lucky that the camps were only about half full, compared to the camps in Botswana being totally full. And yes, we saw leopards every day there! I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but don't think Sabi Sands has to be excluded, especially if you want to see leopards.
Yvonne, I'm not sure what you mean by "lovely company", or why that would differ from SA or Bostwana. I think it is just luck of the draw if you happen to like your vehicle companions, besides in six days, you will have different people coming and going. We have only been on two safaris, but generally have found everyone to be polite, on time for drives, and interested in most everything. I know that there are several "old timers" here that complain about visitors all the time, but we haven't had any real issues.
Hari, on another note, if you see this, you're going to Rattray's? What about the luxurious accommodations, the internet?
