Lynneb

I'm planning an October 2010 trip that will just be for one week. I've just visited Sabi Sands (Leadwood) and would like to return to Sabi Sands but I need to combine it with another reserve preferably with different scenery.

I've already visited Phinda and Mashatu and would prefer to go somewhere else this time. I enjoy areas that have a remote feel. We've thought about heading over to Tswalu but that would probably mean a night in JNB which isn't great when we only have week. I'd like somewhere that allows night drives and off-road drives. Any suggestions please?

If we can't figure this out then we will probably head back to Zambia if the rates improve a little.

mkhonzo

The only really significantly different park to southern Kruger is the Madikwe or Pilanesburg. I would suggest Tshukudu in the P'berg and Mateya in the Madikwe. In both there is limited off road driving, but in both instances you can do a night drive.

Getting there from the the east is possible, however you need to be on the first flight out with FedAir to make their Madikwe Air flight, prior arrangement will be necessary, while between now and Oct 2010 schedules could change.

Safari_Craig

Lynne,

You really have been to some of the best places SA has to offer already.

I would highly recommend Zambia! I am going there myself next month.

You can also now get to Mana Pools in Zimbabwe quite easily from Zambia. This would allow you to visit Kafue and South Luangwe but instead of going to Lower Zambezi you could go accross the river to the much quieter Mana Pools NP.

Craig Beal

cary999

Where are you starting from, JNB, CPT?

Are you saying one week total, re-visit Sabi Sand and another camp in Zambia? You would spend 2-3 nights in Sabi Sand then fly to maybe Zambia for just another 2-3 nights? Have you worked out the travel time and cost? I wouldn't, I'd spend the entire week in Sabi Sand, or Zambia, or Botswana.

Just a thought, how about renting a car in JNB and driving to Swaziland, then after couple days there drive into Kruger for a few days and drive back to JNB. Would be different experience even if the scenery is not new. Could be done for a week for $1,000 for two people. And you could combine it with another visit to Sabi Sand. But, in a week? Just me I guess, but I don't get the need we see here so often to rush from place to place in Africa.

regards - tom

Lynneb

Thanks for the ideas. We're in the UK so it's not so bad to go for a week and I usually manage to go 2 or 3 times a year. I'm travelling with a couple of people who are first timers and can only go for a total of one week on this occasion. We are flying to JNB.

The idea of somewhere like Sabi Sands is really so they can be assured of seeing a lot of animals over 4 days and I was looking for somewhere easy to reach from there for another 4 days. If we went to Zambia it would instead of South Africa. I'd love to go to Zambia (I've been before) but the USD vs GBP rate is making it difficult for that trip at the moment.

I'd also love to be a little more adventurous and go to Swaziland but I don't think I can convince my companions to do something like that. I'll have to save that one!

Tom - I know you've been to Timbavati on a few occasions - is it worth combining with Sabi Sands or is too similar?

Has anyone been to Tswalu?

cary999

Lynneb - Lucky you in UK and a "short" 10 hour flight to JNB, I have to do that double to get there from California.

Just got back two days ago from safari both Timbavati, Kings Camp, and Sabi Sand, Kirkmans Kamp. (Trip report coming in couple of weeks). Similar terrain look and feel although Kirkmans is much rougher/hillier and has Sand river through it. Cost of charter flight (General Airways) between the two camps is $325 for two people. Easy to do, no missed game drives.

If you go to Timbavati, go to Kings Camp, here is my last years trip report of it.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35161085
KC camp will impress first time safari goers more so than say Kirkmans. I was there again this time for eight nights. They have rate deals, stay for 5 nights but pay for 4, stay for 8 pay for 6.

regards -tom

Lynneb

Thanks for the info Tom. It's two overnight flights so it does make it easier and no jet lag to contend with either.

SPECIALIST_RANGER

A Sabi Sands/Timbavati combination never fails to offer a great wildlife experience! Plus, of course, the transfers between the 2 reserves are so easy with either a short flight or a road transfer between breakfast & lunch. Seasons in Africa manages the mentioned Kings Camp in the Timbavati, as well as Leopard Hills & Djuma in the Sabi Sands. Not sure if they're offering any special deals valid for travel in Oct 2010, but it will be worth your while investigating it as an option.
andBeyond are offering a special "pay for 3 nights, stay for 4" offer, valid for travel in October 2010. Utilising this special offer, you could combine Ngala Safari Lodge or Ngala Tented Camp (Timbavati) with any of their lodges in the Sabi Sands (Kirkmans Kamp, Exeter River or Dulini - this special is not valid for Leadwood).
Good luck with your planning!
Mike Karantonis

mkhonzo

There is very little difference between the southern Kruger and the mid kruger (Sabi Sand/Timbavati). With such a short window to rack up the experiences I would encourage you to attempt different geographies as these will yield a greater diversity of game.

Madikwe/Pilanesberg boast beasts such as black rhino & oryx as examples that you are unlikely to see in the western & southern areas of the kruger.

spassvogel

I second Mkhonzo's advise for Madikwe. Very different to Sabi Sands plus you might be lucky and see the brown hyena there.
Here MATEYA is my absolute favourite pleace.

Madikwe is mountainous plus savannah. Very interesting landscape. Complete contrast to SS/Timbavati.

BTW - wouldn't it be a appealing combo to do a tented camp e.g. Ngala tented or Tanda Tula and a top notch lodge like Mateya?

Happy Planning.

SV

cary999

I didn't find Madikwe Reserve terrain that much different than Sabi Sand or Timbavati. Sabi Sand can be quite "hilly" but also quite flat, the Timbavati rather flat. From what I saw, Madikwe is mostly flat (which cheetahs prefer). Was at Madikwe Hills Lodge for 5 nights in 2007. Gorgeous lodge and rooms. But no plans to go back, the game drives were very ho-hum compared to Sabi Sand. FWIW, my trip report -
South Africa: Madikwe Hills Lodge, Kings Camp, Leopards Hills, five nights each in May 2007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35016274


regards - tom

spassvogel

Tom
we stayed at Impodimo, Makanyane and Mateya - Mateya twice. And the landscape between the three of them varied very much - let alone between SS and Madikwe.

Anyway - I don't think my memory is that bad ;-)

SV

cary999

I believe you SV. I guess my game drives were rather limited. I remember driving only on very flat terrain except when coming into Madikwe Hills Lodge which is on the side of a large hill. Is some of that property you mention private and not available to other lodges?

Are the game drives still avoiding elephants? They would not get within 100m of them when I was there, seems like the eles still remembered bad times in Zimbabwe where they came from. Wonder why they didn't import eles from Kruger?

regards - tom

mkhonzo

just to second SV... Madikwe is a very interesting landscape with some charming Kopjes to explore. Most unlike the landscape of the Sabi Sand and a great compliment to the Sands.

christabir

Since you've been to so many places in S Africa, have you considered the Okavango? Tswalu sounds fascinating, but it does look difficult to get to - not easy to combine with anything. Met a man in S Africa who said it's his favorite place, but don't know anything more. The Kalahari might be of interest since it is similar? Okavango/Kalahari is doable as is Madikwe/Okavango of Kalahari. Sorry - I keep leaving out SS! I like the SS/Tanda Tula or Ngala tented idea. May be similar scenery, but different experience.

Tom - heard the same thing recently about the eles at madikwe. So sad. I heard they were trying to save the Zim eles by sending them to madikwe. Not sure if true.

cary999

Don't know what's unique about Zim eles, maybe they just wanted a distant gene pool (from Kruger). But bet they wish they could do it over and get other eles. It is really great to be up-close-and-personal with eles.

regards - tom

Lynneb

Thanks everyone. I've been to the Okavango and the CKGR previously and loved both. This planned trip is for October and I don't think it's the best time of year for the Kalahari and I reckon October might be too expensive for the Okavango but I'm still researching and would love to go to Botswana again but perhaps not for this trip.

I've had mixed feedback about Madikwe. I understand that there aren't night drives and there is very limited off roading. I think I might find that frustrating. Any views?

spassvogel

YES off roading in Madikwe is only doable when staying at Makanyane which is in a small private concession - besides rhe normal game drives in the reserve.

Generally speaking the rule in the reserve is "not more than 300m" from the tracks.

I must say my attitude towards off-roading has changed a lot since I got a bit deeper into that subject.

Knowingly intruding deeply into animals habitat killing bird's nests, lizards etc etc while following a cat is not a necessity for me anymore and by far not decisive for being a successful safari.

That's totally depending on anybody's tolerance threshold.

Further happy planning!

SV

spassvogel

oops Tom - I just noticed you questions.

I believe you SV. I guess my game drives were rather limited. I remember driving only on very flat terrain except when coming into Madikwe Hills Lodge which is on the side of a large hill. Is some of that property you mention private and not available to other lodges?

>>> Only Makanyane is in a small privat concession - as fs as I know. They drive in their conc plus the reserve.

Are the game drives still avoiding elephants? They would not get within 100m of them when I was there, seems like the eles still remembered bad times in Zimbabwe where they came from. Wonder why they didn't import eles from Kruger?

>>> Our last visit was in April 09/Mateya. We approached Elis the way they do it everywhere. But you are right - the elies were quite nervous. Cows facing towards the car (approx. 20 m away) and flapping ears stating clearly they would not allow us any closer. So we slowly pulled back a bit until they relaxed.
I have not heard of Elis brought from Kruger to Madikwe.

But I have learned quite recently that they do hunting in Madikwe. They "harvest" also big cats in order to keep the population to a sustainable number. It's very disturbing to me. Thinking logically I assume that's the way in all the reserves where animals cannot move to their liking out/in.
Quite something for us to swallow.........

SV

mistypopper

Why not consider heading up to Northern Kruger - Wilderness Safari's has a camp up there called Pafuri? Scenery up there is very different to the Sabi Sands - think Canyons and more rugged mountains as well as lovely Fever Tree Forests... a lot more dramatic.

Alternatively the Eastern Cape (somewhere like Samara) is going to give you incredible scenery & space (rolling plains and little Kopje's - The Plains of Camdeboo) but not necessarily the Big 5 game viewing. They have only re-introduced endemic game species I believe.

Enjoy!