Rocco - Twelve Apostles

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Jan 30th, 2004, 08:44 AM
  #1
OSC
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Rocco - Twelve Apostles

Hi Rocco,
Based on your reviews, I'm considering purchasing a Twelve Apostles Luxury Link package for a trip in September. Just a couple of questions for you about the hotel: Could you hear the traffice from the highway? How long did it take to drive to the V&A Waterfront?
Thanks!
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Jan 30th, 2004, 09:42 AM
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OSC -- I purchased a Luxury Link package and stayed at the 12 Apostles for 4 nights in December, largely because of Rocco's recommendation and because it was such a good deal (4 nights, 4 breakfasts, 1 dinner, 1 bottle of champagne, totalled $535 for two people including tax and service). We absolutely loved it. We could definitely hear the traffic from the highway when the doors to our balcony were open, but not when they were closed. Our room had two balconies, one facing the sea, with the road between the hotel and the water (from the balcony you could also see Lion's Head) and another facing one of the two swimming pools with lots of beautiful foliage in between. There was far less traffic on the weekend than on the weekdays, and on the weekend we sat out on our balcony to eat breakfast whereas on the weekday mornings the noise from the traffic made it more pleasant to eat breakfast in the room. The breakfasts were fantastic, full cooked breakfasts with omelettes, fresh fruit, delicious pastries, coffee, etc. It took about 10-15 minutes to drive to the waterfront. The service at the hotel was the best we've ever experienced anywhere. At checkin they handed us complimentary glasses of champagne, gave us a quick tour of the hotel, asked what our favorite flavor of ice cream was (chocolate chip mint) and offered to make some for us, and we had no sooner closed the door to our room when our complimentary bottle of champagne on ice was delivered to our room. The room had a pillow menu, of all things (anti-snore? boomerang? chiropractic? etc.), and a soap menu (you could choose lavendar, oatmeal, honey, etc.). Even though our package didn't include it, they offered us a complimentary movie and snacks in their little cinema (we never ended taking them up on this though as we were always out doing things when the movies were showing). They provided complimentary bottles of water at our bedside each evening, with slippers, robes, and chocolates. Our room featured a complimentary bowl of fresh fruit in the sitting area (apples, oranges, bananas, etc.) which was replenished daily. The room also had some gorgeous coffee table books on photography, art, etc. and a good selection of magazines. On our last day they called our airline for us to make sure our flight was scheduled to leave on time, found out that it had been delayed by 6 hours, and offered to let us stay in the room as long as we needed to at no extra charge. We never even had a chance to enjoy their pools or use their hiking trails behind the hotel, which looked lovely. The bed was one of the most comfortable I've ever slept in, and the view from the bed was of the blue water -- gorgeous. We enjoyed 2 dinners in their restaurant, one of which was complimentary with a more limited menu, and the other of which was from their regular menu. We enjoyed both very much. The dining room features a special table you are invited to walk over to and taste the special wines they are offering that night, which we wish all restaurants would offer! We would stay there again in a heartbeat.
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Jan 30th, 2004, 11:34 AM
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Lisa, WOW! Perfect review - just the kind of detail I enjoy reading...
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Jan 30th, 2004, 12:58 PM
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Thank you, Lisa! This kind of review makes me think I might go for a Luxury Link package sometime.
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Jan 30th, 2004, 01:15 PM
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OSC,

I think Lisa's review sums it up perfectly. Do not hesitate for one second to stay at the Twelve Apostles, especially at the excellent rates that you can buy it for on Luxury Link.

Good luck.
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Aug 20th, 2004, 12:56 AM
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topping to show another Fodorite's unbiased opinion of the Twelve Apostles, a hotel that Selwyn considers amongst the worst 50% of hotels in all of Cape Town. Selwyn, I think George W Bush has a position in his propoganda & smear campaign department if you are interested. You have my full fledged recommendation.
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Aug 20th, 2004, 05:14 AM
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Hip hip hooray Roccco you have found two great 12 Apostle trip reports which btw confirm my problem with road noise and isolation amongst others. Considering that the Africa Fodors webforum has so many readers I suppose this is a good example of what Fodorites really think of the hotel. I suppose the reason why there are no more reports is purely because no matter how much you plug the venue nobody ever stays there! That also is why the Apostles is hardly ever full and what is more is virtually forced to offer their so called great deals on Luxury Link. From your ravings about LL and the 12 Apostles I suppose you still have to learn that in todays wrorld there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Anyway the proof of the pudding is in the numbers who have commented favourably on this webpage relative to its readers and you have accidentally proved this yourself.

How about in the future before screaming from the rooftops about the 12 Apostles relative to other places of Cape Town accommodation you first stay at a couple of the many other wonderful places of accommodation in Cape Town so that you at least have a marker to work from. In this regard may I tell you a secret I have done just that and I suppoose thats what you would then define as a jaded impression. My oh my who truly is the jaded party in this debate especially when you even have to bring George Bush into the equation. HUH???!!!

Enough said. I'm outa here on this one as there just are too many other wonderful places in Cape Town to recommend positively relative to the 12 Apostles.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa


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Aug 20th, 2004, 05:33 AM
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Selwyn,

SPPPPPPPPPIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! WWWHHHEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Round and round Selwyn goes, where he'll stop, nobody knows!!! Is it that the Twelve Apostles does not give him the same commissions that the other Western Cape establishments do for taking his guests???

SPPPPPPPPPIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Only Selwyn could possibly see a slight mention of road noise in the reports but pretend as if he did not see the rest of the report declaring the Twelve Apostles one of the finest hotels these Fodorites have ever visited and their complete happiness with their experiences at the Twelve Apostles Hotel.

Spin the top, Spin the top, Spin the top, Mr. Spin Doctor!!!

>>>>>How about in the future before screaming from the rooftops about the 12 Apostles relative to other places of Cape Town accommodation you first stay at a couple of the many other wonderful places of accommodation in Cape Town so that you at least have a marker to work from.

Only Selwyn will ignore the fact that I have stayed at two of the other top 5* hotels in Cape Town while at The Table Bay Hotel and the Mount Nelson Hotel.

Gee, Selwyn, with all this spinning, is anybody else dizzy?, are you any more useful to us than a tour operator that outright tries to sell his product on Fodors??? At least they have the decency to be upfront about it all.

Of course your latest little appearance has nothing to do with my recent highlighting of the hypocrisy of the dual pricing standard, South Africa's latest experiment in APARTHEID!!! The more some things change, the more they stay the same, isn't that how the saying goes???
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Aug 20th, 2004, 05:58 AM
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Roccco

Calm down....Your gross abuse of this word isn't justified.

Get some sleep and look for specials in other African countries...

I don't think South Africans will appreciate your statements on Apartheid only because your unable to secure a special!!

CHILDISH!!!
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Aug 20th, 2004, 06:12 AM
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Roccco for your information I dont take commissions from hotels or guesthouses in that I very proudly pass these on to my visitors or those that I help visit our city as discounts. What is more is I state this boldly and proudly on my website. Furthermore I am very happy to say that many (impossible to even recount as there are so many) Fodorites have gained handsomely from this in the past when I have simply helped them book accommodations in my town or on the Garden Route. Enough said

Secondly and most importantly with capitals intended.

ANYBODY WHO HAS THE DAMN AUDACITY TO WANT TO LIKEN THE PRICES OF VENUE ENTRANCES IN SA TO THE PAIN AND SUFFERING THAT MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN HAD TO GO THROUGH UNDER THE WORD APARTHEID DOES NOT DESERVE TO VISIT OUR GREAT COUNTRY AT ALL. I HAVE MANY FRIENDS (INCLUSIVE OF MY OWN SELF)WHO PUT THEIR BODIES AND LIVES ON THE LINE DURING THE APARTHEID YEARS. NOW YOU COME ALONG IN SUPERFICIAL EXPERT STYLE AND CHEAPEN THEIR AS WELL AS ALL THE MANY SOUTH AFRICANS WHO SUFFERED UNDER THE EXISTENCE OF APARTHEID BY PUTTING THEIR CAUSE UNDER THE SAME HEADING AS A DIFFERENCE IN PRICES TO VISIT VENUES (Which btw is a practice I disagree with anyway) SHAME, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU!!!!

IN FINALITY IT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING AND PAIN OF THE WORD APARTHEID SO MY OPINION IS BUTT OUT IN THIS REGARD.

If FODORS were not a public forum I would be using much stronger words in this mail as you have touched a very soft spot in terms of my own personal life. I will definitely not be continuing this debate (around the word Apartheid) as you are too small minded and money based in all that you talk about to even start understanding the meaning and pain of the word.

To FODORS forum management my apologies if you feel that I have gone overbaord in this mail and I would have no qualms if you wipe it off the board as I probably am wasting my energies on a bigot anyway.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa WHERE THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE PROUDER A NATION WE BECOME!

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Aug 20th, 2004, 06:22 AM
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Safarinut,

Perhaps you would feel different if whenever you visited in your current home of Canada or in the USA you were charged double to triple the rate that "Resident North Americans" were charged.

Anyway, my word of choice is obviosly just bait for the volatile Selwyn Davidowitz to have his head explode. I never thought that he would actually lose his cool all over again, but it was worth a try, and to my surprise it has pushed his button, yet again.

Personally, I think you guys are too sensitive. My own mother basically grew up in what amounted to nothing more than a labor camp in the Los Angeles area, where thousands of Mexicans were kept for the purpose of picking crops. It doesn't mean that I lose my cool when people say that minorities in the USA have not come a long way since the 1940's and 1950's when this was occuring.

Get a grip!!!
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Aug 20th, 2004, 07:48 AM
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Roccco,

It made me quite proud to see that Safarinut (who I have always believed still remains a true blue South African simply on a long term vacation in Canada) jump in minutes before me to tell you his thoughts about your insensitive choice of words.

I promised I would stay out of this debate but your latest remarks just dont let me do this as they are so so insensitive.

The more that you talk (write) the worse you become. Your "get a grip" statement is truly a sick one! It is so obvious that with your "famed knowledge" of South Africa how little you truly know about us as South Africans.

From the little bit that you have told us I honour your mom highly for what she has gone through and in my opinion so should you. It is also my opinion that you should be protective about what she did for what eventually turned out to be for your sake. It does not seem as if this is your attitude however if that be your way of doing things then so be it. In South Africa however we feel very strongly about this type of concept that your mother had to endure and if you call us sensitive because of this then we are proud to be as such. What is more is I believe we have a right to be just that. What does come from your statement however is the fact that all that you know about South Africa is hotel prices and whether the beds in hotels are good or other logistics like this. This surprises me because when we met each other in Cape Town I really saw you as being a true humanist and now it really astounds me how you so easily throw the word Apartheid around, worst of all as so called bait <sic> <sic>.

Many, many, many people suffered heavily under Apartheid. Even though many that I know, inclusive of myself, fought the Nationalist party regime with all we could muster, paradoxically as white people we gained off society. It is my own belief that because of this it is redemption time in SA and as a white South African I am trying my absolute damndest to heal the wounds of the past by trying to help my fellow black South Africans as best I can so that together we can build one of the greatest nations of the world. Many a Fodorite on this page can tell you of how I am trying to do this as they have experienced this all with me when they were in Cape Town. Worst of all is the fact that I still believe that there are still many white South Africans who still have to come to the table to help and I can but only hope that they do so in the future. With that being my attitude you come along in your mail and as so called bait <sic> take the word Apartheid, which we regard as holy grail in this great land and liken it to entrance fees at tourist venues. What is more is that thereafter you call us sensitive!!!!

My suggestion is that you stay in America and keep your entrance fees that you so greedily protect because we dont need your money or your kind in our country where we are so proud to be building a vibrant new society and nation. May I also add that what I am saying I am pointing directly at you and you only. I say this because I have never ever expereinced anything similar to your insensitivity from any other Americans, as a matter of fact I have found that those who have travelled with me to be amongst the most humble people when seeing what Apartheid truly did to our land.

All that it takes from a South African perspective is for one party to say sorry and then we in the true spirit of ubuntu (which is a word that I strongly suggest you research) happilly say "you are forgiven". Thereafter we get on with our lives together in peace. Now thats the new South Africa that we so guardedly treasure and for which we have such good reason to be sensitive about.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa





If you think that it is sensitive on my behalf to climb all over you for such flippant use of the word Apartheid then my feelings are that you verge on bigotry. Worst of all is to admity to the fact that you so flippantly used the word as bait. That sickens me more than ever
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Aug 20th, 2004, 07:51 AM
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Error: The last part of my last mail viz:

"If you think that it is sensitive on my behalf to climb all over you for such flippant use of the word Apartheid then my feelings are that you verge on bigotry. Worst of all is to admity to the fact that you so flippantly used the word as bait. That sickens me more than ever"

should heva been depleted.



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Aug 20th, 2004, 10:43 AM
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Selwyn and Safarinut: Your passionate responses have gone a long way toward increasing my willingness to visit SA. Although it has always been on my list of places to visit, I have had my reservations because I was not sure what (if any) problems were left over from the old system, and how citizens handled these in their day to day lives.
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Aug 20th, 2004, 11:36 PM
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I for one think Roccco is way out of line, and I am embarrassed lest anyone think that people from the U.S. throw childish fits and become rude and inflamatory when faced with the economic realities of travel. Perhaps someone should explain supply, demand, market pricing and what prices do and do not mean ...Hint: if an established place is NEVER available at a discount what does it mean? (Roccco thinks it means that people who stay there are stupid!)If it is ALWAYS available at a discount, what does it say about their "posted, rack" prices? Another hint: 12 Apostles isn't on Luxury Link because management wants to be nicer than the management of rival hotels.) But I doubt it would make a dent. Perhaps Roccco would like to try to find employment in South Africa and live on an actual local salary, THEN try to stay at the places he so craves, even at SA resident prices. He would likely end up at Kruger, and then he could scream about how the whole economy is a conspiracy to keep him out, because, after all, it is ALL about Roccco.
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Aug 21st, 2004, 12:16 AM
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The problem with staying at places like the Twelve Apostles;is that you are very out of touch with the people who live in the country you are visiting. Rocco, To bad you didn't take the time to really get to know some of the wonderful people who live there.You missed out on a lot! I know Selwyn,and understand why he fills the way he does. Frankly your baiting him about this issue is very sick!

I hope that people who read this post don't get the wrong idea about Americans. We do not all think like Rocco.
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Aug 21st, 2004, 04:48 AM
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Having lived int he two eras of this country and having travelled Africa and South Africe extensivly I find that all your arguments are valid, but you all have to realise that south Africa is proberbly one of the newsest tourist destinations to emerge, if you compare it to Europe or similar. They are going to have some serious teething problems and the fact that you are moaning about a dual charging system is proof ofthis, i think that the fact that they are still trying to make it affordable for normal South Africans in commendible but at some stage it will stop. Apartheid fished 10 years ago, are we going to be punished forever, if so what about all the other places in world where it occured in much larger masses but never got a name so it was ignored....do not use the word if you have a clean slate, do not criticise a country if your country never had slavery/similar, I would prefer that you all came to visit us so that you can see how far we have grown.

Hotels in Cape Town, in my line of work I travel extensivly lecturing and advising I have stayed in lodas of hotels in Cape Town and you are definatly spoilt for choice you cannot go wrong with any of the 5* hotels in Cape Town!
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Aug 21st, 2004, 08:08 AM
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Oh, I see, local rates to help the locals? Which locals? How many black South Africans has anybody ever seen at an upscale safari lodge?

The local rate, at least at the best lodges, is helpful only to the wealthy white South African. What if there was a separate category of "non-white local" with rates even half those of the local white rates? Wouldn't this be equitable? Why aren't the Selwyn Davidowitz's of South Africa pushing for this?

Selwyn can honk his horn all he likes, but for him to question whether or not I am a bigot is no more inflammatory than for me to use that big bad "A" word. But, you know, sticks and stones, sticks and stones...

The fact of the matter is that when I am on holiday, I do want to get away from it all. As diverse as some may think that Cape Town is, I live in the diversity capital of the world, LOS ANGELES, and in possibly the most diverse section of Los Angeles, the San Gabriel Valley. As I am sure fellow Fodorites, and nearby neighbors, Clematis and Guenmai can tell you, the San Gabriel Valley may likely be the most diverse part of Los Angeles.

I am around people for 340 days a year. My desire to have an exclusive holiday has nothing to do with me being bigoted towards any one group of people...it is against ALL people! I like nothing more than going to an exclusive lodge or small hotel and having few other people around, and of those that are around, I am always pleased when my wife and I meet other people that we hit it off with and can enjoy our time with while we are sharing the same lodge.

Going back to some of the other spinning that Doc Davidowitz has placed on things. He states that he has never met any Americans that were as bad as I am. Gee, that's funny...I clearly remember Selwyn telling me how prejudiced most of his white guests from California were against Mexicans, how upset they were that Mexicans were taking over the state and that illegal immigration was ruining California.

You see, Selwyn does have a good heart...there is no denying that. Unfortunately, Selwyn does not have a good memory to go along with that good heart, and for the purpose of trying to crucify me, he will likely deny that any of his Californian guests exhibited the racist attitudes towards Mexicans that he told me about during my 12 hours with him last year.

Now onto the all-tolerant and genteel Capetonians that Selwyn depicts. Although I am Mexican and my wife is Assyrian (ancient Babylonians, now mostly in Iraq, the Christian minority in Iraq), most of our tour guides and taxi drivers in Cape Town take us for white. Here's how it really is, at least with a segment of Cape Town society...white guys that are about my age, in their early 30's, feel cheated by it all. All the best jobs are going to blacks, blah, blah, blah. The Muslims dislike the blacks. Most everybody (blacks and whites) dislike the Muslims. There is this very fragile tolerance going on right now. The Afrikaans still prefer the company of other Afrikaans and seem to dislike everybody, even other white South Africans that are not Afrikaans.

Well, on the surface, everything is peachy. I know this drill well...we try to practice it in Los Angeles. But even in a city as diverse as Los Angeles, half the people like to keep to their own. The Koreans mostly hang out with other Koreans. The Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Mexicans, Central Americans, Russians, and others mostly do the same. And guess what, should it come as any shock that the people that my wife and I hit it off with most are higher income, well educated and mostly (racially) diverse couples???

Would there anything in common for me to have over for dinner and drinks a recent immigrant from Guatemala??? NO. But, if being a bigot means that in order to have something in common that I befriend others in my socioeconomic range, usually completely different in racial makeup, then, yes, let me sing to the high heavens, that I AM A BIGOT!!!

Get real. I have my ideas about what Politically Correct people can do with their ideas, but I will leave that to the imagination of the reader.

Bottom line...it is my holiday and I will choose the locations and activities that best allow me to enjoy the most relaxing and most visually stimulating holiday possible. I do enough for humanity, and more so for my canine friends, back home. I don't think when Selwyn is taking his vacation to Eastern Europe or when visiting Las Vegas, that he is taking time out to go visit battered women shelters, to go and take care of crack babies, or to go and foster a peace accord between rival gangs. So, when I am highlighted because I don't want to see certain segments of South African society when I am on VACATION.

For the record, I personally employ about 75 individuals, and most of them are earning above the mean salary in the USA. My door is always open to my employees and I do whatever I can to possibly help them.

In any event, I think it is very amusing to be called a bigot. I am reminded of last night when I was taking one of my employees home, and some guy in some big ugly SUV saw me in my Range Rover and I had the incomparable Carolyn, a Corgi/Jack Russel mix, on my lap. Well, despite me being 230+ pounds, and having my wife in the passenger seat, the guy after his left turn light turned green, leaned out the window and called "SISSY!", his way of calling me a homosexual for I guess loving my dog and perhaps for driving a fancy SUV instead of a more manly? SUV like his own. And the point of all this is that there is prejudice all over the spectrum. No better than this guy last night are the Selwyn Davidowitz's of the world that have the audacity to call me a bigot because I don't toe the line of political correctness. Well, that word is usually reserved for right wing Republicans in this country, and I could not be further to the left, at least on social issues, so I do find that comment as amusing as the uneducated redneck that called me a "sissy" last night. Ha ha, perhaps I am just a bigoted sissy. Well, as long as I am never a hypocrite, like so many others, I guess I can live with that!

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Aug 21st, 2004, 09:33 AM
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Roccco,

Just to set the record straight:

I have never and will never deny that I had a Californian as well as a Texan couple travel with me in the past who were worried about the Hispanic influence in California as well as Texas if not the whole of America. Firstly as far as I am concerned they have their right to their own view just as you and I have. Secondly whether I agreed with their attitude is interesting because I did agree with their opinion to an extent. You see what you forgot to mention in your above mail was that they were fearful of the growth of the amount of Hispanics in America HOWEVER they were happy to abide by the law and live with the situation as it is believing that in America no matter which group has the higher numbers in the end all would come together because they believed in the basic building blocks of their great country. Whether this be pie in the sky or not is not the issue of this whole debate however I agree wholehearteldly with their belief and would work very sternly towards attaining this sense of community if I were an American like them. You seemingly feel different to this.

Secondly you are correct in that I am going to Eastern Europe in October however where you are wrong is that I intend spending as much time as possible amongst ALL Croatians and Slovenians with the intention of trying to understand who they are, what makes them tick and what has led to them slowly but surely supposedly rebuilding their own countries once again. You can be sure that meeting ALL across the board would be a priority amongst the four of us travelling together. That is where you and I seemingly differ in what we want to enjoy when travelling in that you want to see all the "must do" events in a sense of exclusivity while I go out of my way to want to meet and understand the people of the country that I am visiting in a sense of free mixing with all and svirtually staying in local housing. (which btw if it meant having to stay in a township type venue simply to try and understand the mechanism of the area I would grab the opportunity with both hands) Make no error I feel that there is place for both of what you and I want to do when travelling around the world and the above is simply an observation on my behalf.

In terms of responding to the rest of your above mail, or any others for that matter, I dont even want to waste the finger energy that it takes to type a mail because you are seeemingly totally embroilded in not wanting to see anything other than the "world according to Roccco".

Selwyn Davidowitz

PS. Definition of a bigot according to the Concise Oxford dictionary = One who holds irrespective of reason and attaches disproportionate weight to some creed or view. Does this sound familiar?
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Aug 21st, 2004, 10:33 AM
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Okay, Selwyn, you asked for it.

Definition of Apartheid from www.dictionary.com

A policy or practice of separating or segregating groups.

Yes, I am trivializing the word from the much deeper meaning it holds for South Africans who struggled greatly to achieve their current status. In the USA there have been great struggles, as well, and as a Mexican American, my ancestors faced a few of these struggles, but by integrating for the most part, many more struggles were avoided. There are some that choose not to integrate and seem to enjoy persecution, and that's the fact, Jack.

Back to the word "bigot." Is not the South African Tourism industry bigoted against non-resident visitors, charging them double and triple the prices as locals. Come on now, white South Africans have had an ample opportunity to build themselves up on the backs of South African blacks and coloreds! Do white South Africans really need preferential pricing over Americans and Europeans??? This is nothing but a farce!

Farce, as in:

A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery: The fixed election was a farce. (or The local rates offered to the wealthiest segments of South African society was a farce when 98% of the South African citizens will never be able to enjoy such luxurious accomodations, even at the local rate).

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