HariS

Tom,

I surprised that the MM reservations office was not very helpful with their info. In 2004, we were going onto Cape Town after MM. They saw the routing and asked for us to drive to KMIA to take the direct flight from there to CT, instead of flying out of MM to JNB and then connecting to CT. They also organized a pick-up to take us to the airport. All of this, was done by their own efforts.......

cary999

HariS - This MM did for you while you were at the camp itself? I have always found the camp(s) very helpful. My problem involved email exchange and I believe the MM office was not at the camp but elsewhere.

regards - tom

HariS

No - this was a couple of months before the trip while I was booking it and making payments etc etc., That was my first trip too to MM, so I wasn't one of their clients from before.

skimmer2

Just found time for one last entry before flying out.

The reason why I started this thread was not to give people ideas how to avoid these outrageous commissions.

I just wanted to know why certain people defend these middlemen knowing that they are taking advantage of big way ... Of course, I can't make the blind see ... how hard I try/tried. I guess most people are lacking knowledge(how the safari industry works) or don't see other ways than to make use of a local TA.

From what I read, I understand that some people here would be happy to book a safari directly if they were allowed to do so. So ...

I would think that in terms of wildlife photography quality sightings are the key factor and your chances are much higher if you have a private vehicle at your disposal. I have seen it so many times that guests in a shared vehicle leave too early or arrive too late at the scene. In that case, it's best to keep silent at the table so that you don't upset them.

Tom,

Can you elaborate on the advice your TA gave you to pick the camps you went to as I would be very curious to see if that info can't be found on the web. I am not talking here about which rooms you have to stay in after you choose camp A or B.


Andy,

I am surprised to hear you questioning the height of the commissions for the following reason:

- you are a business partner of a well-known TA, who deals a lot with WS.

Johan

andybiggs

Johan, I don't have any specific knowledge of what agents earn. I don't. I do rely on my agents' organizational qualities, as I don't have any myself.

Seriously, when I run groups of 10 photographers to Africa, I have to rely on people to help me organize the trips, accept payments, and just it all together. My needs are different than most others.

cary999

skimmer2 - ok, you want a web hunt, one example -
In early 2007 I told my TA I wanted to do a safari in May, had to be solo, by myself. He suggested doing three camps in the Season in Africa Group, ( http://www.seasonsinafrica.com/ ) big discount for staying 5 nights each camp and no single supplement. So I did the three, Kings Camp, Madikwe Hills Lodge, and Leopard Hills. Question for you is to find on the web, in what -order- should those three camps be best visited??? First, second, last camp???

At one camp I met two American ladies at their third camp (same three) that did it backwards, and they admitted they should have done it otherwise. But they did it the way their TA set it up for them. I will tell the answer after you reply with yours -and- also how/where you found it on the web. Like you want to do. And -not- from your personal experience, you know too much!!!

regards - tom
ps - no fair peeking at my Fodors trip report!!

twaffle

I think there is a big difference in first time travellers to Africa and people who are returning for their subsequent visits. I can understand someone on their first trip may feel intimidated by all the options and nervous about sending money to an African country so would rather use a local (to them) TA.

I am quite happy to arrange my own trips and book and pay myself as are many others on these forums, but I can fully understand why the less confident would use a TA.

I also know that camps and small operators are paying a lot more attention to forums such as this one for getting their product out there and are thinking a lot more about online bookings rather than just concentrating on promoting through TA.

Skimmer … have a fantastic trip!

HariS

Hi Tom,

Isn't logistics a big part of the order of camps? For example., Timbavati and SSGR are in the Greater Kruger area.

That leaves Madikwe for either a start or end of the trip. Personally, I would start (hypothetically speaking, if I had that schedule) simply because it's a fenced reserve.

Btw, Johan's on safari at the moment, so I don't think he'll see your question. I'll let him know next week when I meet him in Bots.

Hari

cary999

Thanks Hari. My question was in response to his request. He says he can find the answer on the web. He says above to me -
"Can you elaborate on the advice your TA gave you to pick the camps you went to as I would be very curious to see if that info can't be found on the web."

You and he can deduce an answer from your extensive experience/knowledge of safari (like a good TA). But I think he wants to approach the question/problem from a neophyte's, a newbie, perspective.

So you've picked Madikwe first, maybe. A neophyte would have to search that out about logistics and fenced reserve. Would a neophyte consider fencing a dis-advantage?? Could be argued that it is an advantage!!! Whatever, you still have to choose second, Kings Camp or Leopard Hills??

And have a GREAT trip to Bots!!!

regards - tom

HariS

Tom, the only fenced reserve I've been to is Phinda (i was hoping to learn of the cheetah conservation efforts they were involved with ..... so, specific reason/purpose).

To answer your question - will probably end with the SSGR (with the hope to see those 6 male Lions) - Ex-Eyrefield males? I did see them in 2006. Sorry, not familiar with Timbavati as I have not been......

Thanks, leave in a couple of days.

Cheers
Hari

napamatt_2

FREEDOM OF CHOICE

Who gives a crap whether any of us use a TA. What does it matter? I like having someone take care of details for me, answer my questions and use there clout when I have an unusual request. They also have more information than I do and that's something I believe in paying for. But again, it's my choice. If I defend my TA it's because I find they've produced value for me and are being targeted unreasonably for the crime of trying to provide at a service that clearly many travelers require and be adequately compensated for it.

If you don't wish to pay a TA book direct and figure everything out yourself, that's what the internet allows you to do. When planning a trip I spend my time focused on my target bird list, rather than details I don't want to deal with. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The choice to spend our money how we please is one of the last freedom's remaining (assuming our benevolent government allows us to keep much of our money).

So Johan, I'm not sure I see the point of the question (and its tone) other than you don't like TA's, Wilderness and commissions. So do what you do and vote with your wallet, given the # of times you've been to Botswana, I would imagine you know amost every trick and wrinkle. For most people this is a one off trip and therefore the services of a TA are very important.

andybiggs

well said, Matt. well said.

surkamp

The last two comments surely prove my comments to Safari Craig

"There is one born every minute".

If you wish to be robbed that is up to you but do not wish it on the rest of us, who happen to know what they want and whom they can get it from!
TA's are parasites, and I do not wish to feed them!

napamatt_2

Surkamp

So don't.

I believe I made a rational case for my position, most of my recent safari experience has been at Mala Mala - I actually get a slightly better deal from my TA than booking direct - her choice.

As for your insulting comment, I think it's fairly clear I was not born yesterday, though many people admire my "boyish good looks"

AfreakA

i'm voting for Napamatt's every word
though personally i've never used a TA

mytmoss

While I do not use travel agents at the moment, I do not think they are parasites. The lodges do not think they are parasites. The lodges go out of their way to get travel agents to send customers to them. So someone must value them otherwise no one would use them.

The word parasite implies they live off others and provide nothing of value. I would choose my words more carefully as I do think its very insulting.

Mike

napamatt_2

Just spent an hour on the phone with a TA looking at Galapagos Island trips - very helpful, gave me lot's of information with no guarantee of a sale.

safarimama

How much is that information worth to you?
How much is that hour worth to the TA?

atravelynn

Have a wonderful time in the Galapagos NapaMatt!

andybiggs

Oooh, I love Galapagos. I will be there in May, as I have a private yacht for a group of 19 plus myself. Love that place. Well, not as much as Africa. Matt, feel free to email me offline if you need any additional info.