New and trying to get up to speed
Nov 6th, 2007, 11:55 AM
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New and trying to get up to speed
I am really lost in the Africa forum.
A few questions... The all-inclusives and even some of the hotels include game drives correct? Why the private driver and vehicle? Tell me the cons of the included game drives.
I just read the thread of the increase qoute for 2008 using Roy's and I was wondering if someone would be so kind and list a breakdown of costs- driver, park fees, etc. Do the companies charge the rack rate for the lodges they book for you and then keep any pre-negotiated cost difference for themselves? What are the typical mark-ups.
I can't really look at a safari quote and know if it's good with the limited knowledge I have.
Thanks
A few questions... The all-inclusives and even some of the hotels include game drives correct? Why the private driver and vehicle? Tell me the cons of the included game drives.
I just read the thread of the increase qoute for 2008 using Roy's and I was wondering if someone would be so kind and list a breakdown of costs- driver, park fees, etc. Do the companies charge the rack rate for the lodges they book for you and then keep any pre-negotiated cost difference for themselves? What are the typical mark-ups.
I can't really look at a safari quote and know if it's good with the limited knowledge I have.
Thanks
Nov 6th, 2007, 01:39 PM
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Since you mention Roys, I'll assume you're looking into Tanzania or at least East Africa.
If you drive from park to park, your tour operator will typically provide a driver/guide and vehicle which you'll use both for your transportation between parks and your game drives. This will be on a private basis if you've booked a private safari.
If you fly from park to park, the lodge or camp will typically provide a guide and vehicle for your game drives and airstrip transfers. This will usually be on a shared basis with other guests, but you may luck out and get a private vehicle from time to time. You can also choose to pay for a private camp vehicle on a space available basis but this is generally a costly option ($250 to $400 extra per day). Some camps include private vehicle use in their rates which are accordingly high.
I use the term typically because there can be exceptions to the above depending on the specific arrangements you've made.
In general, operators in East Africa will quote a complete cost. If you're planning a driving safari, this would include your vehicle, driver/guide, fuel, park fees, full board accommodations, etc. For a flying safari, this would include flights, transfers, park fees, accommodations on a game package basis, etc. On occasion, I've also seen flying safari quotes broken down into flight + camp + park fees.
Current park fees for Tanzania are available on www.tanzaniaparks.com or for Kenya on www.kws.org. Kenya park fees are scheduled to go up on May 1, 2008 to $50-$60 per day depending on the park. Different companies will charge different rates for their vehicle + guide, but I believe typically this ranges between $150-$200 per day. I don't know how much tour operators typically mark up the rate they receive from lodges and camps (different operators may also get different rates depending on their volume or relationship). I'd get a few quotes from recommended operators here and compare.
If you drive from park to park, your tour operator will typically provide a driver/guide and vehicle which you'll use both for your transportation between parks and your game drives. This will be on a private basis if you've booked a private safari.
If you fly from park to park, the lodge or camp will typically provide a guide and vehicle for your game drives and airstrip transfers. This will usually be on a shared basis with other guests, but you may luck out and get a private vehicle from time to time. You can also choose to pay for a private camp vehicle on a space available basis but this is generally a costly option ($250 to $400 extra per day). Some camps include private vehicle use in their rates which are accordingly high.
I use the term typically because there can be exceptions to the above depending on the specific arrangements you've made.
In general, operators in East Africa will quote a complete cost. If you're planning a driving safari, this would include your vehicle, driver/guide, fuel, park fees, full board accommodations, etc. For a flying safari, this would include flights, transfers, park fees, accommodations on a game package basis, etc. On occasion, I've also seen flying safari quotes broken down into flight + camp + park fees.
Current park fees for Tanzania are available on www.tanzaniaparks.com or for Kenya on www.kws.org. Kenya park fees are scheduled to go up on May 1, 2008 to $50-$60 per day depending on the park. Different companies will charge different rates for their vehicle + guide, but I believe typically this ranges between $150-$200 per day. I don't know how much tour operators typically mark up the rate they receive from lodges and camps (different operators may also get different rates depending on their volume or relationship). I'd get a few quotes from recommended operators here and compare.
Nov 6th, 2007, 01:43 PM
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All-inclusive (all meals while on safari, usually breakfast only in cities, game drives and daily park fees included) can be either a group itinerary with set departure dates, specific places visited and the lodge/camp as the tour operator selects.
Private itineraries allow you to design an itinerary you wish, when you want to travel, where you want to visit, for as many days, and you select the lodges/camps. You have the vehicle and guide/driver to yourselves. All meals while on safari, breakfast only when in cities, game drives and park fees included.. in some instances, also alcoholic beverages and laundry).
While some people choose to put together an itinerary on their own, it's just easier to have a travel agent, tour operator, safari planner or in-country outfitter to handle this for you. They can pull together everything from the minute you step off the plane, the entire time while in-country and back to the airport for your homebound flight. These providers get special rates from the individual lodges/camps/hotels and charge you accordingly. Whatever profit/commission is already built into the price when they present you with a quote. Each company may receive different prices from the lodges/camps, based on contract agreements; there's no set profit or commission.
With few exceptions, if you book direct with a lodge/camp, you will pay the rack rates... why you're better off using an intermediary. Besides, when in a foreign country it's nice to have a contact to run interference if unforeseen circumstances present themselves.
Suggest you read thru the East African Index (that LyndaS, was good enough to put together; summarizing various trip reports). This will give you an idea of the types of itineraries visitors choose, where they visit, acommodations and the company they used to make the arrangements.
Hope this gets you started.
You have to decide what you hope to get from a safari in Africa, when you can travel - different times of the year are better in some countries than others - group or private; if private whether you wish to stay in lodges or camps (these are quite civilized and safe), and your budget.
Private itineraries allow you to design an itinerary you wish, when you want to travel, where you want to visit, for as many days, and you select the lodges/camps. You have the vehicle and guide/driver to yourselves. All meals while on safari, breakfast only when in cities, game drives and park fees included.. in some instances, also alcoholic beverages and laundry).
While some people choose to put together an itinerary on their own, it's just easier to have a travel agent, tour operator, safari planner or in-country outfitter to handle this for you. They can pull together everything from the minute you step off the plane, the entire time while in-country and back to the airport for your homebound flight. These providers get special rates from the individual lodges/camps/hotels and charge you accordingly. Whatever profit/commission is already built into the price when they present you with a quote. Each company may receive different prices from the lodges/camps, based on contract agreements; there's no set profit or commission.
With few exceptions, if you book direct with a lodge/camp, you will pay the rack rates... why you're better off using an intermediary. Besides, when in a foreign country it's nice to have a contact to run interference if unforeseen circumstances present themselves.
Suggest you read thru the East African Index (that LyndaS, was good enough to put together; summarizing various trip reports). This will give you an idea of the types of itineraries visitors choose, where they visit, acommodations and the company they used to make the arrangements.
Hope this gets you started.
You have to decide what you hope to get from a safari in Africa, when you can travel - different times of the year are better in some countries than others - group or private; if private whether you wish to stay in lodges or camps (these are quite civilized and safe), and your budget.
Nov 6th, 2007, 01:45 PM
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Although you are probably interested in East Africa I will tell you aboout the private vehicle in my rercent Southern African experience. I am also new here, by the way.
We arranged for a private vehicle for our game drives in SA and Botswana because one of the two people I was traveling with had had a pulmonary embolism about 6 weeks before our trip. She was on strict medical orders not to remain seated for more than an hour at a time and was instructed to walk for 5-10 minutes every hour. Being concerned that this would be impossible in a vehicle filled with other tourists, each with his or her own agenda for the game drives, we hired our own vehicle. It was very expensive.
Others do it so that they can avoid the potential obnoxious guest, steer their own course for photos and game viewing, stay out longer than the norm, and other reasons...I am sure others more knowledgeable than I on this subject will fill you in..
We arranged for a private vehicle for our game drives in SA and Botswana because one of the two people I was traveling with had had a pulmonary embolism about 6 weeks before our trip. She was on strict medical orders not to remain seated for more than an hour at a time and was instructed to walk for 5-10 minutes every hour. Being concerned that this would be impossible in a vehicle filled with other tourists, each with his or her own agenda for the game drives, we hired our own vehicle. It was very expensive.
Others do it so that they can avoid the potential obnoxious guest, steer their own course for photos and game viewing, stay out longer than the norm, and other reasons...I am sure others more knowledgeable than I on this subject will fill you in..
Nov 6th, 2007, 01:55 PM
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You have been given quite the primer in the above two responses.
Here is the index mentioned for East Africa.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34860283
The site below has rates for some lodging. These are approximate.
www.e-gnu.com
Here is the index mentioned for East Africa.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34860283
The site below has rates for some lodging. These are approximate.
www.e-gnu.com
Nov 6th, 2007, 02:06 PM
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I hadn't checked the e-gnu site in years. But, just did for Kenya's Masai Mara (they show a very short list) which appear to be rack rates for low season. And, do not include transport to/from (road or flights) and daily park fees.
Caught big error - they list Serian Camp at "from $50/person/nt" - gotta be a typo.
Caught big error - they list Serian Camp at "from $50/person/nt" - gotta be a typo.
Nov 6th, 2007, 02:28 PM
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Eben lists a lot of rack rates on his www.go-safari.com site.
Keep in mind that many lodges and camps have 2 rates - full board for drive in guests with their own vehicle and game package which is inclusive of game drives for fly in guests. Some camps will only book on a game package basis.
And you do need to add park fees and transport, either flights or a vehicle, to the per person per night lodge/camps rates.
Keep in mind that many lodges and camps have 2 rates - full board for drive in guests with their own vehicle and game package which is inclusive of game drives for fly in guests. Some camps will only book on a game package basis.
And you do need to add park fees and transport, either flights or a vehicle, to the per person per night lodge/camps rates.
Nov 6th, 2007, 05:42 PM
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Fodor's has a good book called African Safari. It's a slim volume and is a good place to start before you jump full into the Africa forum. It will give you all the basics without overwhelming you. I'm glad I read it before hitting this forum.
Nov 6th, 2007, 06:29 PM
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Thank you all for the in depth replies.
So when you book with a tour operator- their driver is also your guide along with their vehicle and the hotel/tented site safaris will not be available to you.
Where does the driver/guide sleep?
Am I correct to then use this as a guideline: Safari quotes (drive not fly) should not exceed rack rates + park fees or is that too simple?
I am interested in Kenya but would be vacationing in June (16 year old son) so I think Tanzania would be better. I like the looks of Southern Tanzania (Ruaha and Selous).
Kenya- (Mara)don't like the idea of a contrived Maasai atmosphere- read Samburu is better for Maasai culture.
Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania. Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?
Tanzania- must do Ngorongoro crater- I haven't really got a good handle on this- what is Empakai? Sopa (moderate/budget) best location, yes?
Ruaha- I know this is a fly-in- Coastal Air.
Selous- close to Ruaha, why not- ha ha!
Could care less about beaches but Stone Town sounds interesting. Madagascar sounds interesting also.
My teen keeps changing his mind so this may not materialize but I really appreciate your thoughtful answers to my questions.
I found this online for TA's and assume this would be the absolute low end of costs:
11/17/07-11/26/07
1)London to NBO
2)Meet and transfer Stanley Hotel
3)Drive to Mountain Lodge B,L,D
4)Drive to Samburu. PM Samburu game safari. B,L,D
5)AM game safari.PM another Samburu game safari. B,L,D
6)Drive to Sweetwater's Tented Camp. Game viewing. B,L,D
7)Drive to Sarova. PM Sarova game safari. B,L,D
8)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
9)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
10)Drive to Nairobi. Dinner at Carnivore. Transfer to airport for flight to London. B,L,D
$1490 + $270 (airport taxes)
So when you book with a tour operator- their driver is also your guide along with their vehicle and the hotel/tented site safaris will not be available to you.
Where does the driver/guide sleep?
Am I correct to then use this as a guideline: Safari quotes (drive not fly) should not exceed rack rates + park fees or is that too simple?
I am interested in Kenya but would be vacationing in June (16 year old son) so I think Tanzania would be better. I like the looks of Southern Tanzania (Ruaha and Selous).
Kenya- (Mara)don't like the idea of a contrived Maasai atmosphere- read Samburu is better for Maasai culture.
Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania. Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?
Tanzania- must do Ngorongoro crater- I haven't really got a good handle on this- what is Empakai? Sopa (moderate/budget) best location, yes?
Ruaha- I know this is a fly-in- Coastal Air.
Selous- close to Ruaha, why not- ha ha!
Could care less about beaches but Stone Town sounds interesting. Madagascar sounds interesting also.
My teen keeps changing his mind so this may not materialize but I really appreciate your thoughtful answers to my questions.
I found this online for TA's and assume this would be the absolute low end of costs:
11/17/07-11/26/07
1)London to NBO
2)Meet and transfer Stanley Hotel
3)Drive to Mountain Lodge B,L,D
4)Drive to Samburu. PM Samburu game safari. B,L,D
5)AM game safari.PM another Samburu game safari. B,L,D
6)Drive to Sweetwater's Tented Camp. Game viewing. B,L,D
7)Drive to Sarova. PM Sarova game safari. B,L,D
8)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
9)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
10)Drive to Nairobi. Dinner at Carnivore. Transfer to airport for flight to London. B,L,D
$1490 + $270 (airport taxes)
Nov 7th, 2007, 04:51 AM
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>>11/17/07-11/26/07
1)London to NBO
2)Meet and transfer Stanley Hotel
3)Drive to Mountain Lodge B,L,D
4)Drive to Samburu. PM Samburu game safari. B,L,D
5)AM game safari.PM another Samburu game safari. B,L,D
6)Drive to Sweetwater's Tented Camp. Game viewing. B,L,D
7)Drive to Sarova. PM Sarova game safari. B,L,D
8)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
9)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
10)Drive to Nairobi. Dinner at Carnivore. Transfer to airport for flight to London. B,L,D
$1490 + $270 (airport taxes)<<
Not only low-end, besides it's Kenya in June. A drive only itinerary and some very long distances where you can add a flight or two.
Nothing wrong with including some Kenya, even in June, but Tanzania in early-June is a better option (based on availability, much of which is pretty much booked... your actual dates and where you stay will determine.)
As to Selous or Ruaha, realize these would have been closed May, due to the rains, and not open before June. You will find high grasses making game sighting difficult. Getting to/around/from the Southern Parks also add to your cost.
If you do a drive safari, which can be arranged in either country, with your own vehicle and guide, there are sleeping accommodations for the guides at these properties... like bunk rooms (they'll vary depending on lodge/camp, where guides meet up with their guide buddies, have traditional foods most of the time).
If flying into certain areas, you use the guides at particular lodge/camp and if only the two of you, will share game drives/vehicles with other guests.
How many total days will you have in-country? If only 10 as above, then it's best to concentrate on one country. Routing will also depend on which airport your fly in/out. If Nairobi, Kenya and doing a Tanzania itinerary you have to get to Tanzania. If into Kilimanjaro, Tanzania you can commence from here.
Check site as www.kayak.com where you can search for flights into either NBO or JRO, along with prices. Kayak doesn't book flights, but will direct you to who is offering the schedule/price... can be airline, a discounter, consolidator.
1)London to NBO
2)Meet and transfer Stanley Hotel
3)Drive to Mountain Lodge B,L,D
4)Drive to Samburu. PM Samburu game safari. B,L,D
5)AM game safari.PM another Samburu game safari. B,L,D
6)Drive to Sweetwater's Tented Camp. Game viewing. B,L,D
7)Drive to Sarova. PM Sarova game safari. B,L,D
8)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
9)Sarova game safari. B,L,D
10)Drive to Nairobi. Dinner at Carnivore. Transfer to airport for flight to London. B,L,D
$1490 + $270 (airport taxes)<<
Not only low-end, besides it's Kenya in June. A drive only itinerary and some very long distances where you can add a flight or two.
Nothing wrong with including some Kenya, even in June, but Tanzania in early-June is a better option (based on availability, much of which is pretty much booked... your actual dates and where you stay will determine.)
As to Selous or Ruaha, realize these would have been closed May, due to the rains, and not open before June. You will find high grasses making game sighting difficult. Getting to/around/from the Southern Parks also add to your cost.
If you do a drive safari, which can be arranged in either country, with your own vehicle and guide, there are sleeping accommodations for the guides at these properties... like bunk rooms (they'll vary depending on lodge/camp, where guides meet up with their guide buddies, have traditional foods most of the time).
If flying into certain areas, you use the guides at particular lodge/camp and if only the two of you, will share game drives/vehicles with other guests.
How many total days will you have in-country? If only 10 as above, then it's best to concentrate on one country. Routing will also depend on which airport your fly in/out. If Nairobi, Kenya and doing a Tanzania itinerary you have to get to Tanzania. If into Kilimanjaro, Tanzania you can commence from here.
Check site as www.kayak.com where you can search for flights into either NBO or JRO, along with prices. Kayak doesn't book flights, but will direct you to who is offering the schedule/price... can be airline, a discounter, consolidator.
Nov 7th, 2007, 06:13 AM
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<b>Am I correct to then use this as a guideline: Safari quotes (drive not fly) should not exceed rack rates + park fees or is that too simple?</b>
You left out several hundred dollars a day more for the vehicle, fuel, driver/guide's wages and room and board, plus any profit the safari operator might like to make to stay in business.
Bill
You left out several hundred dollars a day more for the vehicle, fuel, driver/guide's wages and room and board, plus any profit the safari operator might like to make to stay in business.
Bill
Nov 7th, 2007, 06:38 AM
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tinlizzy2, perhaps I can answer some of your questions from the point of view of a Mom who went last year with her 18 year old son. He absolutely <i>loved</i> our entire trip and if it were not for the $$ he'd have to spend, he'd be going with me again next year.
<i>"Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania."</i>
True, although in June (particularly late June) you'd see large concentrations of elephants in Tarangire Nat'l Park in Tz. I'm not so sure that the transfer from Amboseli to Arusha would be easy - you'd still have quite a drive from the Namanga border crossing to Arusha - probably 2 hours. You'd have to arrange for a change of drivers at the border which can be done easily.
<i>"Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?"</i>
We took a shuttle bus from Nairobi to Arusha partly to save money, but also because we wanted to see some of Kenya. It was well worth it for us, although following a long international flight, we were good and tired by the time we reached our hotel in Arusha.
<i>"Tanzania- must do Ngorongoro crater- I haven't really got a good handle on this- what is Empakai?"</i>
The Ngorongoro Crater is a "must do" for most people who go to Tz. Olmoti and Empakai are smaller craters that are trekking destinations for those looking to add some hiking to their itineraries.
<i>"Sopa (moderate/budget) best location, yes?"</i>
If you want to stay on the rim of the Crater, the Wildlife Lodge is your least expensive (and some would consider low end) lodge option. The Sopa is next up, followed by the Serena and (ultra luxurious and expensive) Crater Lodge. We stayed at the Serena and will be again next year. The Sopa has it's own decent road which means that you can get down into the crater really early in the morning without the potential bottleneck at the decent road shared by the other lodges. However, we stayed at the Serena last year and we were the only people at the decent road first thing in the morning. The Sopa faces West for a great view of the spectacular sunsets, but I imagine that sunsets (and crater views) are as good from any of the lodges. Some people save money by staying at the lodges in the Karatu area. These are less expensive options to staying on the rim, but require longer drives to get to the Crater for early morning game drives. Have a look at Eben's map to get oriented a bit:
http://go-safari.com/images/NCACrater.jpg
Good luck with the planning. It's daunting at first because of all the information to sift through. Keep asking questions.
<i>"Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania."</i>
True, although in June (particularly late June) you'd see large concentrations of elephants in Tarangire Nat'l Park in Tz. I'm not so sure that the transfer from Amboseli to Arusha would be easy - you'd still have quite a drive from the Namanga border crossing to Arusha - probably 2 hours. You'd have to arrange for a change of drivers at the border which can be done easily.
<i>"Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?"</i>
We took a shuttle bus from Nairobi to Arusha partly to save money, but also because we wanted to see some of Kenya. It was well worth it for us, although following a long international flight, we were good and tired by the time we reached our hotel in Arusha.
<i>"Tanzania- must do Ngorongoro crater- I haven't really got a good handle on this- what is Empakai?"</i>
The Ngorongoro Crater is a "must do" for most people who go to Tz. Olmoti and Empakai are smaller craters that are trekking destinations for those looking to add some hiking to their itineraries.
<i>"Sopa (moderate/budget) best location, yes?"</i>
If you want to stay on the rim of the Crater, the Wildlife Lodge is your least expensive (and some would consider low end) lodge option. The Sopa is next up, followed by the Serena and (ultra luxurious and expensive) Crater Lodge. We stayed at the Serena and will be again next year. The Sopa has it's own decent road which means that you can get down into the crater really early in the morning without the potential bottleneck at the decent road shared by the other lodges. However, we stayed at the Serena last year and we were the only people at the decent road first thing in the morning. The Sopa faces West for a great view of the spectacular sunsets, but I imagine that sunsets (and crater views) are as good from any of the lodges. Some people save money by staying at the lodges in the Karatu area. These are less expensive options to staying on the rim, but require longer drives to get to the Crater for early morning game drives. Have a look at Eben's map to get oriented a bit:
http://go-safari.com/images/NCACrater.jpg
Good luck with the planning. It's daunting at first because of all the information to sift through. Keep asking questions.
Nov 7th, 2007, 08:34 AM
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<i>So when you book with a tour operator- their driver is also your guide along with their vehicle and the hotel/tented site safaris will not be available to you.</i>
Yes, that's generally the case although there's nothing specifically stopping you from going on game drives through the lodge/camp except for the fact that you're already paying for the vehicle/guide from your tour operator.
<i>Where does the driver/guide sleep?</i>
Most lodges/camps have driver/guide accommodations onsite.
<i>Am I correct to then use this as a guideline: Safari quotes (drive not fly) should not exceed rack rates + park fees or is that too simple?</i>
If planning a driving safari, you should be looking at full board (not game package) rates. In addition to your accommodations and park fees, there would be the cost of the vehicle and guide.
<i>Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania. Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?</i>
Road to Namanga (border to Tanzania) isn't bad and will take approx 3 hours from Nairobi. From Namanga, it's about another 1.5 hour to Amboseli, so it's not directly on the way to Tanzania, but it's not that far out of the way either. It depends on how much overall time you have.
Yes, that's generally the case although there's nothing specifically stopping you from going on game drives through the lodge/camp except for the fact that you're already paying for the vehicle/guide from your tour operator.
<i>Where does the driver/guide sleep?</i>
Most lodges/camps have driver/guide accommodations onsite.
<i>Am I correct to then use this as a guideline: Safari quotes (drive not fly) should not exceed rack rates + park fees or is that too simple?</i>
If planning a driving safari, you should be looking at full board (not game package) rates. In addition to your accommodations and park fees, there would be the cost of the vehicle and guide.
<i>Amboseli- looks nice, lots of elephants (yes?) and could make for an easy transfer to Tanzania. Road from Nairobi is horrible, might be better to fly?</i>
Road to Namanga (border to Tanzania) isn't bad and will take approx 3 hours from Nairobi. From Namanga, it's about another 1.5 hour to Amboseli, so it's not directly on the way to Tanzania, but it's not that far out of the way either. It depends on how much overall time you have.
Nov 8th, 2007, 04:15 AM
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Thanks for the replies again. I feel better equipped to put together a vacation.
Sandi-I could spent about 18 days + flight days for vacation in June. My son would only like to be away for 2 weeks but he came home last night excited (for a teen)so these were my thoughts because it will be June- Cairo, Nairobi, Tanzania, Namibia, fly home from Johannesburg.
Bill- Thanks. I think I will post with safari bids because costs really don't seem straightforward - more like a feel for what is the going rate.
Calo- Was that the Impala Shuttle Nairobi to Arusha?
Patty. Hills, travelynn, ekscrunchy- Thanks for all the info and links.
How does the Cairo to Johannesburg sound. Anything along the way that you would recommend? We are used to traveling BTW- I know this seems like a groaner.
Should I post other questions in separate threads after this?
Thanks again.
Sandi-I could spent about 18 days + flight days for vacation in June. My son would only like to be away for 2 weeks but he came home last night excited (for a teen)so these were my thoughts because it will be June- Cairo, Nairobi, Tanzania, Namibia, fly home from Johannesburg.
Bill- Thanks. I think I will post with safari bids because costs really don't seem straightforward - more like a feel for what is the going rate.
Calo- Was that the Impala Shuttle Nairobi to Arusha?
Patty. Hills, travelynn, ekscrunchy- Thanks for all the info and links.
How does the Cairo to Johannesburg sound. Anything along the way that you would recommend? We are used to traveling BTW- I know this seems like a groaner.
Should I post other questions in separate threads after this?
Thanks again.
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:08 AM
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Yes, it was the Impala shuttle we took, tinlizzy.
Cairo to Johannesburg sounds fabulous but I would be a bit concerned about doing it justice in only 18 days. I guess it depends on what exactly you're wanting to see and do.
Cairo to Johannesburg sounds fabulous but I would be a bit concerned about doing it justice in only 18 days. I guess it depends on what exactly you're wanting to see and do.
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:45 AM
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<b>Bill- Thanks. I think I will post with safari bids because costs really don't seem straightforward - more like a feel for what is the going rate.</b>
Liz, I think it starts to make sense when you strip off the travel days and then calculate the <b>cost per day</b> while on safari. This gives you a figure that's easy to compare when looking at different trips and operators.
As one example (mainly because they post their trip prices, unlike most) here's a 'typical' Good Earth trip to Tanzania ...
http://www.goodearthtours.com/tanzan...i_special.html ... so they say (in 2008) 10 days for $2,440 but the first two days and the last day are travel days, so to me that's a 7 day safari (nights in safari lodges).
This is four people per jeep, if you have only 2 you can get placed with strangers, or you can get the jeep just for yourselves for an extra $150 (smart to get it yourself) ... so $2,590 or $370/night for lodging at Sopa and Serena lodges (what most of us consider mid-range).
So that's a number ($370/night/person) to begin with (a fairly low number, btw) ... staying at more upscale lodges or tented camps will increase cost, staying at Wildlife lodges will lower the cost etc.
Bill
Liz, I think it starts to make sense when you strip off the travel days and then calculate the <b>cost per day</b> while on safari. This gives you a figure that's easy to compare when looking at different trips and operators.
As one example (mainly because they post their trip prices, unlike most) here's a 'typical' Good Earth trip to Tanzania ...
http://www.goodearthtours.com/tanzan...i_special.html ... so they say (in 2008) 10 days for $2,440 but the first two days and the last day are travel days, so to me that's a 7 day safari (nights in safari lodges).
This is four people per jeep, if you have only 2 you can get placed with strangers, or you can get the jeep just for yourselves for an extra $150 (smart to get it yourself) ... so $2,590 or $370/night for lodging at Sopa and Serena lodges (what most of us consider mid-range).
So that's a number ($370/night/person) to begin with (a fairly low number, btw) ... staying at more upscale lodges or tented camps will increase cost, staying at Wildlife lodges will lower the cost etc.
Bill
Nov 8th, 2007, 12:43 PM
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There are flights between Cairo/Nairobi; from NBO/Johannesburg; from JNB/Windhoek, Namibia. Between Nairobi you can fly or do the shuttle bus to Arusha/JRO, Tanzania. But flight schedules might be limited - days of week and # of flights a day and departure times may be strange.
You certainly can't do all in 2/weeks, and even 3/wks is pushing it as you'll have to do overnights in some places to get to another.
You can cover CAI in 2-3/days - Pyramids, Sphinx, Saqqara, Memphis, the Museum and Bazaar. You won't have time to get down to Luxor, let alone Abu Simbel.
Once in Nairobi, I'd think you'd want to pick up a few days safari rather than spend whatever time just in NBO.
Tanzania is a good place to be in June, pending availability as this is peak-season and much is already booked. A basic trip covering the prime spots on the Northern circuit would be minimum 6/days
When concluding here, you might have to return to Nairobi for a flight to JNB. The flight time NBO/JNB is 4/hrs and not inexpensive. On arrival JNB, few people spend much (any) time here, rather go onto a safari location of to Capetown. Believe you'd need at minimum 4/days.
Then from JNB you'd have to fly to Windhoek (WDH) Namibia, where again you'd either go north the safari locations, or south the the dunes area, also needing at minimum 4/days.
Then from WHD back to JNB for homebound flight. It's a bit much even with 18/days
Example:
Day 1 - Lv. USA
Day 2 - Arv. CAI - o/n
Day 3 & 4 - sightseeing Cairo - o/n
Day 5 - Fly to NBO. Depending on arrival time, usually 6am (having departed evening of Day 4), you can do some sightseeing - Blixen House, Giraffe Center, Sheldrick Elephant Orphanage - o/n (at least to catch your breath)
Day 6 - Drive to Amboseli (for elephants) - o/n
Day 7 - Amboseli - o/n
Day 8 - Drive via Namanga to Arusha, Tanzania; drive to Lk.Manyara - o/n
Day 9 - Drive to Ngorongoro; crater tour - o/n
Day 10 - Drive to Serengeti - o/n
Days 11 & 12 - Serengeti - o/n
Day 13 - Fly to Arusha/JRO; fly to NBO; flight to JNB (no idea of flight sched or time) - arv JNB - o/n
Day 14 - JNB or ?
- or on Day 13, if there's a flight from NBO to Windhoek, go onto Namibia
Days 15, 16 - Soussevlei (Dunes) - o/n
Day 17 - back to WDH, to JNB, to USA
- or if there's some connecting flight from WDH avoiding JNB connect in Europe to flight to USA
Day 18 - Arv. USA
The above is very cursory, as I have no idea what flights connect where or when. Gives you some idea of what is entailed to cover all of it. I'm tired just considering it. Something is going to have to be omitted.
Besides, by the time you arrive home, you'll need another holiday just to recover from the hectic flight schedules, besides the cost of all. Flying within Africa isn't cheap.
You can certainly do Cairo, Nairobi, Amboseli and the Northern circuit in Tanzania; a bit rushed, but doable... the rest is a tremendous undertaking.
You'll just have to make a return trip, as many here do.
You certainly can't do all in 2/weeks, and even 3/wks is pushing it as you'll have to do overnights in some places to get to another.
You can cover CAI in 2-3/days - Pyramids, Sphinx, Saqqara, Memphis, the Museum and Bazaar. You won't have time to get down to Luxor, let alone Abu Simbel.
Once in Nairobi, I'd think you'd want to pick up a few days safari rather than spend whatever time just in NBO.
Tanzania is a good place to be in June, pending availability as this is peak-season and much is already booked. A basic trip covering the prime spots on the Northern circuit would be minimum 6/days
When concluding here, you might have to return to Nairobi for a flight to JNB. The flight time NBO/JNB is 4/hrs and not inexpensive. On arrival JNB, few people spend much (any) time here, rather go onto a safari location of to Capetown. Believe you'd need at minimum 4/days.
Then from JNB you'd have to fly to Windhoek (WDH) Namibia, where again you'd either go north the safari locations, or south the the dunes area, also needing at minimum 4/days.
Then from WHD back to JNB for homebound flight. It's a bit much even with 18/days
Example:
Day 1 - Lv. USA
Day 2 - Arv. CAI - o/n
Day 3 & 4 - sightseeing Cairo - o/n
Day 5 - Fly to NBO. Depending on arrival time, usually 6am (having departed evening of Day 4), you can do some sightseeing - Blixen House, Giraffe Center, Sheldrick Elephant Orphanage - o/n (at least to catch your breath)
Day 6 - Drive to Amboseli (for elephants) - o/n
Day 7 - Amboseli - o/n
Day 8 - Drive via Namanga to Arusha, Tanzania; drive to Lk.Manyara - o/n
Day 9 - Drive to Ngorongoro; crater tour - o/n
Day 10 - Drive to Serengeti - o/n
Days 11 & 12 - Serengeti - o/n
Day 13 - Fly to Arusha/JRO; fly to NBO; flight to JNB (no idea of flight sched or time) - arv JNB - o/n
Day 14 - JNB or ?
- or on Day 13, if there's a flight from NBO to Windhoek, go onto Namibia
Days 15, 16 - Soussevlei (Dunes) - o/n
Day 17 - back to WDH, to JNB, to USA
- or if there's some connecting flight from WDH avoiding JNB connect in Europe to flight to USA
Day 18 - Arv. USA
The above is very cursory, as I have no idea what flights connect where or when. Gives you some idea of what is entailed to cover all of it. I'm tired just considering it. Something is going to have to be omitted.
Besides, by the time you arrive home, you'll need another holiday just to recover from the hectic flight schedules, besides the cost of all. Flying within Africa isn't cheap.
You can certainly do Cairo, Nairobi, Amboseli and the Northern circuit in Tanzania; a bit rushed, but doable... the rest is a tremendous undertaking.
You'll just have to make a return trip, as many here do.
Nov 10th, 2007, 04:01 PM
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Thank you Sandi- all the trouble you went to!
I've been looking at flight times and they are a bit too lengthy for so many.
I included Nairobi for exactly those things and possibly Kibera.
I'll keep pouring over things and post again for help when I get my bearings for distances and times.
I've been looking at flight times and they are a bit too lengthy for so many.
I included Nairobi for exactly those things and possibly Kibera.
I'll keep pouring over things and post again for help when I get my bearings for distances and times.
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