My thoughts on safaris in Botswana - part 1
Aug 2nd, 2009, 09:00 PM
#121
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Park fees going up will still not make a huge difference as those fees are only a small part of the price you pay for a mobile safari. Of course, it will have effects for a certain clientele (like in Namibia). You can't compare this with the price hikes at the lodges.
And I rather pay higher park fees than ...
And I rather pay higher park fees than ...
Aug 2nd, 2009, 09:03 PM
#122
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Leslie,
I am not so outraged by the prices as I do not pay them. My last trip to Savuti (4 nights) and Chitabe (2 nights) cost around $2-2500, I can't remember exactly, as it was in 2008.
As Wilderness maintain prices through a recession, the increasing vacancies actually benefit me. My last safaris with WS have all been booked by walking into the offices in Maun (or livingstone), so it is giving me more choice.
Botswana's conservation model is not sustainable if there is not a recover to pre-2007 in the next 3 years - at least with the number of lodges that are currently in the market place, charging the rates they do.
Footfall in the country is decreasing, and I don't think pricing out self drives will help the economy. Considering that the diamond market has tanked, the country should be enticing more toursit $$$ with a mixed range of safari offering - high end tourism in my opinion is more susceptible to a downturn, so spread the risk.
High demand, imho, in this sector is down to normal people feeling the wealth effect with rising asset prices.
I would not like to ask how many people on this forum stretched themselves to pay for their holiday? Selecting a camp in a private concession and completely blowing their affordable budget?
A recession, IMHO, tends to reverse that desire to aspire to all you see in the magizines through access to cheap credit.
As mentioned in another thread, you are looking for a cheaper holiday in Asia this year. Safari visitors are not all millionaires, most are rational, middle earners who in the current conditions are tending not to 'splurge'.
I am not so outraged by the prices as I do not pay them. My last trip to Savuti (4 nights) and Chitabe (2 nights) cost around $2-2500, I can't remember exactly, as it was in 2008.
As Wilderness maintain prices through a recession, the increasing vacancies actually benefit me. My last safaris with WS have all been booked by walking into the offices in Maun (or livingstone), so it is giving me more choice.
Botswana's conservation model is not sustainable if there is not a recover to pre-2007 in the next 3 years - at least with the number of lodges that are currently in the market place, charging the rates they do.
Footfall in the country is decreasing, and I don't think pricing out self drives will help the economy. Considering that the diamond market has tanked, the country should be enticing more toursit $$$ with a mixed range of safari offering - high end tourism in my opinion is more susceptible to a downturn, so spread the risk.
High demand, imho, in this sector is down to normal people feeling the wealth effect with rising asset prices.
I would not like to ask how many people on this forum stretched themselves to pay for their holiday? Selecting a camp in a private concession and completely blowing their affordable budget?
A recession, IMHO, tends to reverse that desire to aspire to all you see in the magizines through access to cheap credit.
As mentioned in another thread, you are looking for a cheaper holiday in Asia this year. Safari visitors are not all millionaires, most are rational, middle earners who in the current conditions are tending not to 'splurge'.
Aug 3rd, 2009, 01:25 AM
#123
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Twaffle
My statement regarding the Massai Money printing machine/cattle purchase should be seen in the context of what these people do with the millions of $ they get compared to other safari destinations.
Massai are still not interested in putting a decent infrastructure in to place (seen that in 2006/07 when vehicles got stuck and people even missed their long-haul). Nothing has changed yet.
Massai enlarge their cattle herds year by year which leads to interference with wildlife within their concessions for which they cash in the fees.
In the earlierd days and without the fences wildlife prospered where it could mingle with domestic animals. But that was at a time where the pressure onto both wasn't as immense as it is today.
So from that point of view the wildlife should benefit from herds. But reality now is that they don't because the people interfere by cutting the wildlife off from water source, hunting (killing a lion to join manhood which still is custom despite it's forbidden by law), because of unrestricted developments.
As long as the understanding on Massai side regarding conservation is lacking - these "conservations" won't work in the long run - except for the people who harvest money.
SV
My statement regarding the Massai Money printing machine/cattle purchase should be seen in the context of what these people do with the millions of $ they get compared to other safari destinations.
Massai are still not interested in putting a decent infrastructure in to place (seen that in 2006/07 when vehicles got stuck and people even missed their long-haul). Nothing has changed yet.
Massai enlarge their cattle herds year by year which leads to interference with wildlife within their concessions for which they cash in the fees.
In the earlierd days and without the fences wildlife prospered where it could mingle with domestic animals. But that was at a time where the pressure onto both wasn't as immense as it is today.
So from that point of view the wildlife should benefit from herds. But reality now is that they don't because the people interfere by cutting the wildlife off from water source, hunting (killing a lion to join manhood which still is custom despite it's forbidden by law), because of unrestricted developments.
As long as the understanding on Massai side regarding conservation is lacking - these "conservations" won't work in the long run - except for the people who harvest money.
SV
Aug 3rd, 2009, 05:35 AM
#124
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This is a great thread, and has a lot of interesting information, but let's cut to the chase for this newbie. I'm planning to go in early September 2011. Assume 3 locations, 3 nights each, anywhere in Botswana. Quality of wildlife viewing is my one and only priority (which includes quality of the guides, of course). That said, I'd love it if all of the experts here would provide what they believe is the ideal itinerary. Keep in mind, quality of wildlife viewing only. Thanks!
Aug 3rd, 2009, 05:50 AM
#125
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Numbers
2 years ahead...............okay it's never too late and seldom to early ;-)
Regarding the locations/wildlife - there are other experts here.
Regarding the price tag - there might be great changes from today till the time you really have to get serious about bookings which might be late 2010 to early 2011.
September: Peak Peak season - also from sightings point of view.
I am also curious on what the experts are going to post ;-)
SV
2 years ahead...............okay it's never too late and seldom to early ;-)
Regarding the locations/wildlife - there are other experts here.
Regarding the price tag - there might be great changes from today till the time you really have to get serious about bookings which might be late 2010 to early 2011.
September: Peak Peak season - also from sightings point of view.
I am also curious on what the experts are going to post ;-)
SV
Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:27 AM
#128
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@Numbers; just go for a mobile safari!
I conclude the same as most here; the number of rich, mostly uninformed, first timers wanting to pay $h1tloads of money is probably large enough to keep WS doing what they do now.
And if that number of potential customers tends to drop then there's marketing techniques like over-hyping and making sure the TA favors your offer.
For now, the trend does not stop:
http://www.andbeyondafrica.com/luxur..._opening_aug09
I conclude the same as most here; the number of rich, mostly uninformed, first timers wanting to pay $h1tloads of money is probably large enough to keep WS doing what they do now.
And if that number of potential customers tends to drop then there's marketing techniques like over-hyping and making sure the TA favors your offer.
For now, the trend does not stop:
http://www.andbeyondafrica.com/luxur..._opening_aug09
Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:49 AM
#131
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I too received the e-mail from &beyond about the Homestead villa. After doing a little digging on their website, it seems as though you can rent it for 3500 pn in September for 8 people (4 suites). That's under $500 U.S. pp. (I stayed at CCAfrica lodges in SA and enjoyed them as being what they said they are. So I'm probably a little defensive here.)
I don't think there is anything comparable in Botswana for that price. And when I was at Phinda, Americans (rich or not) were the minority.
But, more importantly, thanks for this thread. I have found it both enlightening and, in a way, more confusing for a second time safari goer. But I have time to think about this, I read the Board all the time, and I'm grateful to Johan for starting the discussion and to all the participants. Look forward to more.
I don't think there is anything comparable in Botswana for that price. And when I was at Phinda, Americans (rich or not) were the minority.
But, more importantly, thanks for this thread. I have found it both enlightening and, in a way, more confusing for a second time safari goer. But I have time to think about this, I read the Board all the time, and I'm grateful to Johan for starting the discussion and to all the participants. Look forward to more.
Aug 3rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
#133
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LBJ, really, you just show up in Maun and booked the lodges there? Is that realistic? What season was it? Are you in the business? I assume you paid extra for the Sefofane flights.
And re: "...high end tourism in my opinion is more susceptible to a downturn..." The conventional wisdom is that luxury tourism is in fact more resilient, no? Rich travelers is what most countries have always wanted. In the last few decades the world has actually been far more accessible to "normal" people as personal wealth has grown. Back in the day, it was only the true rich who could afford Africa.
The diamond market must be a huge threat to Botswana's welfare, but oh how I would hate to see it sacrifice it's conservation policies for bigger crowds and short-term thinking.
I'm willing to scrimp and save to be able to go to such a special place...and pay higher prices to be there.
And re: "...high end tourism in my opinion is more susceptible to a downturn..." The conventional wisdom is that luxury tourism is in fact more resilient, no? Rich travelers is what most countries have always wanted. In the last few decades the world has actually been far more accessible to "normal" people as personal wealth has grown. Back in the day, it was only the true rich who could afford Africa.
The diamond market must be a huge threat to Botswana's welfare, but oh how I would hate to see it sacrifice it's conservation policies for bigger crowds and short-term thinking.
I'm willing to scrimp and save to be able to go to such a special place...and pay higher prices to be there.
Aug 3rd, 2009, 04:31 PM
#134
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Leslie, that would be your decisions to make. Considering I managed to travel peak season for three months through Zambia, Botswna and Zim in 2007 (Aug,Sept,Oct) I have no doubt that it is possible.
My last safari was in May 2008, that price included the Sefofane flights, and no I am not in the business.
Wilderness have a travel office in their Maun office to supply give you such a service. There is an automatic saving as they are not paying 20-30% in Agent commission.
The rates do vary on the season. It is more expensive during the peak season, in my experience they range from $175-425 per day depending on the camp - 6 Paw at the higher end.
Lets say you left today, and were looking to start a 15 day safari on Friday August 7th. There can be a 1 day delay starting because of getting on flight schedules.
Itinerary;
1) Start with 5 nights at Duma Tau
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
2) Then head to Chitabe for 3 days
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
3) Then enjoy Vumbura plains for 4 days
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
5) Why not end with 2 nights at Kwetsani
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
My point being, this is the prime season for travel. When most people in the US and Europe take their long vacation. You are retired, so you can be flexible and wait a day or two.
Whilst I believe that ATR update this daily, you may have to change elements of the itinerary. Though WS are not the only company in town.
My last safari was in May 2008, that price included the Sefofane flights, and no I am not in the business.
Wilderness have a travel office in their Maun office to supply give you such a service. There is an automatic saving as they are not paying 20-30% in Agent commission.
The rates do vary on the season. It is more expensive during the peak season, in my experience they range from $175-425 per day depending on the camp - 6 Paw at the higher end.
Lets say you left today, and were looking to start a 15 day safari on Friday August 7th. There can be a 1 day delay starting because of getting on flight schedules.
Itinerary;
1) Start with 5 nights at Duma Tau
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
2) Then head to Chitabe for 3 days
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
3) Then enjoy Vumbura plains for 4 days
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
5) Why not end with 2 nights at Kwetsani
http://www.africatravelresource.com/.../lodge/01intro
My point being, this is the prime season for travel. When most people in the US and Europe take their long vacation. You are retired, so you can be flexible and wait a day or two.
Whilst I believe that ATR update this daily, you may have to change elements of the itinerary. Though WS are not the only company in town.
Aug 3rd, 2009, 04:34 PM
#135
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So many of the camps and lodges are begging for more business. Look at the struggle it was to get some alternate camps named to Wilderness Safaris. They are definitely not the only game in town, and so many of the 'others' offer very good game viewing, guiding and accommodations.
Aug 3rd, 2009, 04:59 PM
#136
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In regards to rich people and the downturn. For destinations wanting only wealthy tourists, I think it is important to clarify the difference between paper wealth (now takign a mssive hit) and the increased purchasing power of ones salary.
IMO, it is no coincidence that the rise in luxury travel and higher rates occured during a bubble period, with the proliferation of cheap credit.
Having lived in Dubai during the start of their crash, it became quickly apparrent that there is a finite amount of people wanting to pay top $$$ for a holiday.
The truly wealthy, those not stretching themselves with credit cards, not affected by a housing crash or fall in their 401K are actually few and far between.
I am not suggesting that allowing the masses will solve Botswana's problems, but self drives through the National Parks create a different economy. Supporting local shops and business in Maun and Kasane - buying goods and materials for their journey.
As camps fall occupancies fall, it has a major impact on the people working in the camps and their families. Remember, this is an industry where staff get alot of their income through 'tipping' which is another ethical question.
You mention paying more to protect Botswana's Wilderness, I would point you to this article, quite revealing.
http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?sid=4&...tober/Friday10
To quote
"it is estimated that local tourism made P100 million, a figure industry analysts say is only 20 percent of the total proceeds, the bulk of which lined the pockets of travel agents overseas"
Perhaps you are simply throwing good money after bad......
How many of the major 'named' Safari companies on used on this forum Botswana owned?
IMO, it is no coincidence that the rise in luxury travel and higher rates occured during a bubble period, with the proliferation of cheap credit.
Having lived in Dubai during the start of their crash, it became quickly apparrent that there is a finite amount of people wanting to pay top $$$ for a holiday.
The truly wealthy, those not stretching themselves with credit cards, not affected by a housing crash or fall in their 401K are actually few and far between.
I am not suggesting that allowing the masses will solve Botswana's problems, but self drives through the National Parks create a different economy. Supporting local shops and business in Maun and Kasane - buying goods and materials for their journey.
As camps fall occupancies fall, it has a major impact on the people working in the camps and their families. Remember, this is an industry where staff get alot of their income through 'tipping' which is another ethical question.
You mention paying more to protect Botswana's Wilderness, I would point you to this article, quite revealing.
http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?sid=4&...tober/Friday10
To quote
"it is estimated that local tourism made P100 million, a figure industry analysts say is only 20 percent of the total proceeds, the bulk of which lined the pockets of travel agents overseas"
Perhaps you are simply throwing good money after bad......
How many of the major 'named' Safari companies on used on this forum Botswana owned?
Aug 3rd, 2009, 10:17 PM
#139
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Russell,
I read that article last year and wasn't surprised at all. The ones that are claiming that Botswana is mostly benefiting instead of TA/operators, are lieing or dreaming. Where is WS its central booking agency? JNB or Maun???
But at the end everyone has to decide for himself ... what he wants and if he/she is prepared to pay that extra money to a TA or/and go to those expensive lodges.
Luangwablondes,
It's easy to name different camps/places instead of the WS ones. Just this isn't the thread to do so. Actually I go quite often on mobile safaris too and gameviewing is often of the same quality (even superior sometimes) to what you experience in those upmarket places.
I would like to thank everyone for his/her participation and I hope it provided a little bit of insight.
Cheers,
Johan
I read that article last year and wasn't surprised at all. The ones that are claiming that Botswana is mostly benefiting instead of TA/operators, are lieing or dreaming. Where is WS its central booking agency? JNB or Maun???
But at the end everyone has to decide for himself ... what he wants and if he/she is prepared to pay that extra money to a TA or/and go to those expensive lodges.
Luangwablondes,
It's easy to name different camps/places instead of the WS ones. Just this isn't the thread to do so. Actually I go quite often on mobile safaris too and gameviewing is often of the same quality (even superior sometimes) to what you experience in those upmarket places.
I would like to thank everyone for his/her participation and I hope it provided a little bit of insight.
Cheers,
Johan
Aug 4th, 2009, 02:28 AM
#140
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To get the BOT rates (Being it WS, Kwando, OE or any other high-end camp) out of the limelight here comes a really< good rate payable when holidaying in the Seychelles:
North Island (WS again - sorry WS) roughly 1800US$pppd
Banyan Tree 1300US$pppd - incl. Breakfast
The Maldives the same price structur.
Not to mention the side expenses (bottle easily 100US$, lunch 70US$ etc)
The problem will be - means not a problem for these high-end venues - the wealthy are not that affected by the CC and will always be able to pay these rates.
5 and 6* venues can charge whatever they like. There is a market for it.
The real problem is the high-end but not outragously charging venue. They struggle because people who SAFE money to travel are affected resulting in empty beds.
SV
North Island (WS again - sorry WS) roughly 1800US$pppd
Banyan Tree 1300US$pppd - incl. Breakfast
The Maldives the same price structur.
Not to mention the side expenses (bottle easily 100US$, lunch 70US$ etc)
The problem will be - means not a problem for these high-end venues - the wealthy are not that affected by the CC and will always be able to pay these rates.
5 and 6* venues can charge whatever they like. There is a market for it.
The real problem is the high-end but not outragously charging venue. They struggle because people who SAFE money to travel are affected resulting in empty beds.
SV
