pixelpower

<i>PP - I think you started the condescending tone.</i>

LOL Show me where.

My last posts were mostly about "keeping the peace". Asking people not to get personal. To stick to the facts. To listen to the music and not shoot at the pianist. These are the replies I get:

<i>"I am 40 years old." You are young. You will learn.</i> Second time in a row TC tells me that I can never get as smart as him, as I will always be younger than him and thus have more to "learn". (or is there any other way to interpret this?)

<i>An IT guy, should have known...</i>
Thank you, LAleslie.

<i>TC, I certainly think you are correct with the reverse snobbery.</i>
Tanky, as I said before to TC: I can assure you that IN MY CASE this is certainly not true. So please stop saying that I am a "reverse snob". I am not. If I were, I'd do a self drive with a tent or something, and not choose places like AOF.

<i>I don't believe that the other camps in Sabi Sand were only 40-60% occupancy in Sep</i>
I'm not sure how to interpret this one. It is Tom's right not to believe me, but it is almost as much as calling me a liar. Or is the guide who told me this the liar? If so , ten why would he lie? Besides, I could tell from all those other vehicles that I saw myself in SS that he was telling the truth; those vehicles most of the time had something like 4 guests in them. Idem with Pungwe, by the way; they share their territory with the Honeyguide camps. Again expensive places; and again very few guests in the jeep. Sometimes even only two people.

B.regs,

J.

pixelpower

To the people who contacted me by email;

Thanks for the "support", but I do not want to start an "us against them" kinda thing. There is no us. there is no them.

I can understand you'd rather "keep silent", as indeed you do "get the heat" in this thread. But really; if you have been to both expensive and less-expensive places, why not just share your experiences, and tell us what the differences were? And if they were worth the extra money? Perhaps we CAN come to some conclusion.

For some people, my limited experiences (having been at a few lodges that apparently barely qualify as "top lodge", plus all the info I got from people working in the industry), are not enough to be allowed to form an opinion. But perhaps your experiences are.

B.regs,

J.

pixelpower

Continuing on the people who contacted me; one remark from really hit the nail on the head:

<i>Your thread started out as "show me evidence why more money would mean more safari", but they turned your question around. Now YOU are the one who has to provide evidence to show that less money can be equally good, or even better.</i>

I must admit that is true. And I hadn't even noticed.

So I suggest we turn this thing around again. <b>Can anyone provide proof that more money = a better safari product?</b>

In the meantime the second part of my trip report is up. I hope you enjoy reading it. Best things at Shindzela were;

- Ellies in camp. First a drink at the waterhole in the lugga, then they strolled right past our tent (rather close, but us & them were very relaxed).

- Being guided by two absolute top guides in the industry, both incredible sources of bush knowledge.

- The personal touch; staff making you feel at home, a sense of being part of a big family. Cherry on the pie was the cook Gertie of course.

- Following wild dogs a whole afternoon, and being allowed to leave the vehicle and approach them on foot. (do they do this kind of stuff somewhere in SS?)

B.regs,

J.

mcwomble

"opinions are like @ssholes - everyone has one!"

cary999

"So I suggest we turn this thing around again. Can anyone provide proof that more money = a better safari product?"

Why don't we start with a simpler subject and work our way up to safaris -
Can anyone provide proof that more money = a better cheeseburger than a McDonalds?

regards - tom

pixelpower

Tom; you are really being a troll.

pixelpower

And mcwomble; I know that. And use that phrase myself sometimes, in an unguarded moment.

But this is a discussion board. So this is a place to give opinions, and discuss them.

So what's your opinion? Do you have proof that spending, say, 3x more money equals 3x more safari? Or proof of the inverse?

Thx,

J.

cary999

PP- what do you consider to be "proof"? If you wiki it you will find several definitions of proof.

Come on, give us a way to show proof. What constitutes proof? Can you give us an example that for you proves one experience (of any kind, not just a safari camp) is better than another. Until you do, I do not know how to construct my proof, what measurements or facts or ? to use.

regards - tom

pixelpower

Do you do that with everyone? Ask them for definitions of words like "safari" or "lodge" or whatever?

Here, I got a wiki link for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

J.

micmic

I hope that things remain the way they are now. Even better,I hope lodges become even MORE expensive. This way fewer people will be able to afford safaris, and for fewer days. (Local communities won't be hurt because we all know that upmarket lodges give next to nothing back to the communities). Fewer tourists, better experience for those of us who are not afraid to self-drive in Africa and who are looking for the most intimate and private experiences that the great parks can offer


So, don't plan your own safaris, you can't do it! Don't camp, animals will eat you alive! Don't drive in Africa, you will be mugged, killed and even worse! Let those dangerous acrtivities to those of us who are careless

spassvogel

pp
As yiu mention big 5 and newbies:

That's my observation as well. Particularly Americans REQUEST not only the big 5 but - believe it or not - we were told that's not an isolated incident that guests request reimbursement IF they don't see the big 5 when staying in one of the SS lodges!

Maybe it's also something which can be sorted out BEFORE people book any safari: Tour Operators/TA should not feed expectations which cannot be met!

Any very good safari starts with decent planning! Too many just SELL!

mcwomble

my opinion is irrelevant to your question.

Enjoyment of a safari is a personal thing, and 2 people on the same safari can have polar views on whether it was good or not.

Spending more money tends to bring exlusivity - fewer people; more space; ability to go off-road (not always), etc.

If exclusivity is what you want - then spend more money. However, as pointed out, some people just want to see the Big 5 - and would be happy seeing them in a zoo. And being charged a lot of money for the privilege.

cary999

ok, fine you win PP, I give up, it's all yours

regards - tom

skimmer2

Tom,

You have a loud mouth and claim photography is important for you on safari. Well I haven't seen any proof of that. Or are you hiding your award winning shots? Or do you only mean that you like taking snap shots on safari?

TC, I am young too but I see it more as an advantage than a disadvantage. Despite your respectable age, you don't sound as an experienced safari goer ... so don't know what value you can add to the subject.

Could it be that some of you here are afraid to choose for cheaper options as you think it is not as safe as in those "bush hotels" you like to go?

Tanky, 4,6 or 8 people in a vehicle, it doesn't really matter. If you are serious about photography you want to be alone with a guide. Otherwise if you are willing to share, you have a lot of things to deal with which will spoil your photography.

micmic

How about my feeling that sometimes more money means WORSE experience ? How about those of us who don't like to see a ratio of 10-20 employees per guest or tent ? Simply because we want a minimum of interaction with humans and a maximum of time with wildlife ? This is from Mombo's page:

<i>"10h00/11h00 - Brunch will be served, this will consist of a selection of breakfast and lunch dishes ranging from freshly baked bread to chilli calamari! From now until afternoon tea, guests will be at leisure, lazing by the pool, reading the game reports in the library or walking and visiting Mombo's hide. Talks on the Delta are often given by the guides."</i>


Are you kidding me ? People pay upwards of $1500 pppn in order to spend 6-7 hours of the day IN THE DAMN CAMP ? "Lazing by the pool" and "reading the game reports in the library" ? Instead of going all day out in the bush, they sit in a camp socializing with the guides and other guests ?

If I were to choose between 10 free days at Mombo and 10 days camping at a private campsite, guess what I'd pick. Yes, sometimes more money buys you a WORSE sexperience.

pixelpower

@Spassvogel; you may be on to something. I never even thought about it, but now you put it that way:

During our stay at EP, we got to see 4 of the big 5 during the first game drive. Lacking was buffalo. Even in EP, animals don't come on request, so it was only on the last game drive that our guide heard - through the radio - that there was a nice group of dagga boys in the neighbourhood. He sped to it, and I remember now that I was thinking "what is he speeding for??"

:-s

pixelpower

@ skimmer;

I know Cary999 is not the most fun person in this thread, but I don't think you should look down on his photographic results. His replies in this thread are what matter, and they say more than enough. :-S

@ micmic;

<i>How about my feeling that sometimes more money means WORSE experience ?</i>

Here's the thing. I actually could spend a bit more on my safaris. I just don't. I don't see why. I am still easily able to find the (in my eyes) right deal. Of course, I don't listen to the TA's that much (including the lot that are on this board).
However, sometimes I do make that exception and pay that little more than I would have liked. I always convince myself then, that it will be worth the money. However, in some way I am always a tad disappointed.

So yes; you may be on to something.

But don't voice that opinion too loud on this forum or you will get the heat. For some reason people think my findings are a proof of "reverse snobbery", while all I want is to ameliorate the safari experience of fellow nature lovers on this board. Naive me; I thought we were all looking for the best "bang for the buck". Maybe not.

B.regs,

J.

Nelson

Gary Larson had examples of what can happen on cheap safaris. One of my favorites was the parrot sitting on a branch over a pool of quicksand where two helmets are floating.

<i>"Let go Mort! You're pulling me in! Let go Mort! You're pulling me in! Let go Mort..."</i>

pixelpower

One of my Africa-related Gary Larson favorites can be seen here:
http://anthropology.net/2007/09/14/w...thropologists/

But my absolute favorite it the Viking boat with sissies on the left and muscular guys on the right, and then one Viking leader saying to the other:

"I don't know Igor. I got a feeling we are going in circles".

wildwings

LOL Nelson