We're still trying to work through the availability issues for the Botswana portion of our trip in July. One option our agent has suggested is a combination of Little Kwara and Kwetsani. Would there be any reason to go to both of these camps, rather one or the other? Also, I'd love to hear views on the pluses and minuses of each. I'd especially love to hear thoughts on the quality of the accommodations themselves, in terms of design and setting. (I know Hari will chastise me for this, but I am interested in the design and aesthetics of the camp, probably more than most people are. My first career was as an architect, and I still have a passionate interest in design. For me, it really enhances the overall experience to stay in a beautifully designed space.)

Here's what I've gleaned so far:

LITTLE KWARA:

PLUSES: Great game viewing, great guides, great people. All three of us could stay in one tent, and we'd have a private vehicle. Plus, the tents have big bathtubs!

MINUSES: Some people hate the vehicles.

UNKNOWNS: Quality and aesthetics of the accommodations and setting; food; activities other than game drives (I hate to mention it for fear that Hari will lose all respect for me, but we might like picnics and cookies and all of the other fluff that hardcore game-viewers eschew. In my own defense, I can't claim status as a hard-core game-viewer yet, since I haven't yet gone on a game drive).

KWETSANI:

PLUSES: Supposedly a very pretty camp in a beautiful setting (although I'd like to hear more about this). From the website, I like the tree-house aesthetic. Potentially better vehicles than Little Kwara. Lots of people cited Kwetsani as their favorite among many camps in the Delta. Good balance between water and land activities.

MINUSES: Read on the website that the long time managers have recently left for Jao. Game viewing supposedly not as consistently good as other places. We'd have two tents for the three of us, so my husband and I would have to split up.

UNKNOWNS: Does the change in management indicate a problem? It hasn't been renovated in a while; is it starting to look tired?

BIG QUESTION: Which camp would most give us the magical sense of Botswana that everyone raves about? And which camp would provide the biggest contrast to Sabi Sands? It's our first trip to Africa, and we'll be heading to the delta after 10 days of game viewing in South Africa. And is there anyone who thinks we should split our five nights between the two camps?

Right now, we're leaning toward three nights at one of these two camps and two nights at San Camp in the pans. Comments on this plan are also appreciated.

Haha .... Hi Isabel 25: If you have a private vehicle as you say - it's upto you to do picnic stops or sundowners etc etc., and your guide will be happy to stop for you!

Then again, if you are not keen on photography - i'd say a private vehicle is a waste of money.

Little Kwara is very good - great staff and great gameviewing.

Your concerns:

Quality of the accomodations - truly very good, i'd say and well maintained and luxurious. Setting very good, again ...... there is a lagoon over looking the camp and pretty. About the setting - in January, when we were having morning coffee prior to drive, the daughter of the Kwara leopard picked off one of the impala lambs right in front of the lagoon and our tracker swung the car around for us to jump in and go! What better setting can you hope for?

Activities other than game drives - you have Mekoros and walks if you wish. Also there is a boat trip to the heronery which is pretty unique.

I don't know why people have problems with their vehicle - IMO, they are best suited for safaris. This may not be very relavant to you - if you intend to do all the above different activities in a handful of days in the camp!

Food and wine you mention - probably not as good as the Wilderness camps for sure.

I haven't been to Kwetsani, but, i think either camp will be a huge contrast to Sabi and you should be okay. Hopefully, someone else who has been to Kwetsani recently, can help you out with relavant info!

Cheers
Hari

Where do you get the idea that there is a problem with the vehicles at Kwara?
As Hari says they are very good.

The game viewing cars of Kwara are by far the best, I´ve ever been on Safari.

Tomsfries

It is not often somebody agrees with Hari and I, unfortunately there is no prize.

Thank you anyway.

Ken,

Since you brought it up - the debate over the URI was brought up on this forum a while ago by a travel agent. I will not dwell on the tiresome threads or specifics once again - but, just an FYI!

In fairness, there have been reports from others - PredatorBiologist, Napamatt, for example - that they have seen the Kwando vehicles which are in a 2x3 seating configuration completely full. This indicates to me that some people are getting stuck with the middle seat, which is generally sub-optimal for a game drive.

And, Julian did give the Kwando camps a positive review - it's just that he has lower back problems and the URIs have a stiff suspension which gave him some pain. This doesn't bother me, but having been on safari with my parents, I can see how this causes people problems.

I haven't been (considering it for the future), but these seem like reasonable assessments. Are they still true? Do the Kwando camps still put six people in the 2x3 seating configuration? Or, do they guarantee everybody a window seat? Do the URIs have a stiffer suspension than other vehicles as has been reported or not?

We went to Kwetsani, and there is a review on my post: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35086423

Lifelist,

Where does the question of being stuck in the middle of the row arise in the case of Isabel25? They are a party of 3 in a private vehicle ..........

Sure, i have seen several vehicles filled to capacity. However, that was the way the vehicles were designed in rows of two. A different product .........

Since you bring it up - can't fault the vehicle for a dodgy back - I don't know about the stiff suspension . Bottom line - it is designed for the best suitable safari and IMHO the best for photography ........

People are quick to blame the URI with limited expertize or experience based on one and two night visits and complain all they want to - but, has anyone thought of the deep Kalahari sand in the Kwando concession in the winter months?

Sure, the Kwando product has room for improvement, as like many operators - but the URI is one of their great strengths!

PS: My elderly parents were on safari for nearly a week in Botswana - all in the URI. They had no back problems. Their only problem was getting in and out of the URI (only because they are not used to it), but, with a bench put out - they were okay!

If it comes to bumps, I am sure the worst thing for the back is sitting in a 3 rower in the last row. When we´re mixed with elderly people we always go in the rear rows because of their handicap of getting in and out.
For photographic reasons the URI is the best you can have. Place before the feet is spacious. You can even put a tripod in front of you, if you don´t open it completely. It maybe a little unspacious if you´re with 6 in the car, I agree.
Maybe for some people it is a problem that this car has no roof. For me it´s the best way to see birds and animals up in the trees.
By the way as we stayed in Xakanaka Lodge some years ago we shared a 2 rower with 8!!!!! people. That was a mess!
Thomas

Very useful information! Thanks all! We'd have a private vehicle at Little Kwara because my daughter is 12 and they prefer parties with children to have their own vehicles -- a very reasonable policy, given the focus on game-viewing at Kwando camps. (It's probably not necessary with my daughter; when it comes to wildlife viewing, she has more patience than anyone I know. In fact, we may have the makings of a new predator biologist on our hands!)

Hari - I was simply pointing out the criticisms of the vehicles by others. Agree that with a private vehicle, the problems of getting stuck with a middle seat aren't relevant.

From my own experience, my parents got tired of bouncing around in a Toyota Landcruiser for 10 days on safari. That vehicle had a very cushy suspension, so I know that they wouldn't like anything stiffer for more than a few days.

As I noted, I haven't been, so I can't speak from experience on this - just pointing out that the criticisms I've seen.

Has the Kwando design changed so there aren't two rows of three? It would be very cool if that were the case.

Hi Lifelist,

Your point, well taken! Yes, it's going to be bumpy when you need to go fast, regardless of the vehicle.

Yes, agree on Tom's point about space being available for tripods and other random stuff. I've been in vehicles with three rows, and to me - there felt like there neither was room for a tripod nor enough room for your legs, if you are a tall person. But, yes - you do get the "Window seat"

Nope - the Kwando vehicle is still two rows - although i think the new URI's are a bit bigger - i personally like to sit in the seat right behind the guide. There is enough space on the floor to sit down and shoot pictures(there is a tyre down there), should you want to do that ..........

To me the arguement about the URI being a bad vehicle is just a very invalid arguement. As, i am yet to find a better vehicle (yes, i have been to other places too!). I have certain seen vehicles covered to protect their clientele from the heat and cold etc etc., those things are not useful to some people, i guess and useful for others. So, i guess different products for different folks ....... To each his own - go where you find suitable!

What next for safari vehicles - a seperate spot in the vehicle for multiple champagne bucket holders?

Cheers
Hari

and yes, in the third row - not only do you feel every bump ........ but, you are very high up and that isn't the best for photography.

Oh! one more thing - they have trackers at Kwando who actively track the animals ........... just a little detail that was missed.

Once, again i am certainly not trying to push the Kwando product to anyone reading this - at the end of the day, i don't want people to end up complaining all day long to people like Alwyn or Spencer or Charles and give them a hard time. They certainly don't need to take any crap from anyone!

Hari

I would just love it if they upgraded the URI´s to have heated seats!!
Michael

Hi Michael,

Too funny ......

Cheers
Hari

and aircon for September and October

Hari had me sold on Little Kwara, but it turns out that we couldn't get the available dates to work with the rest of our schedule. So, Kwetsani it will be -- which apparently is the only delta camp that had availability on the dates that work for us, which cut down on the agony of making a final decision.

So, finally, after all of your help, here's our final itinerary (drumroll please):

Four nights Phinda Mountain;

Three nights Cape Town (one night at Boulders Beach Lodge for penguins; two at the Mount Nelson);

Five nights Mala Mala Main Camp (we shortened this by one night to get Botswana to work);

Overnight in J-Burg (still need a hotel);

Three nights at Kwetsani;

Two nights at San Camp;

Home to Los Angeles (with a tight two hour connection time in J'Burg -- I decided to risk it).

Those who have been following my plans from the beginning may remember that the one absolutely non-negotiable part of the trip was surfing in Jeffrey's Bay. In the end, my husband agreed to scrap that plan for a bunch of reasons, including the facts that (a) our visit would have coincided with a pro-surfing championship (which would have made it difficult to get lodging as well as waves); and (b) I was too worried about my daughter surfing in an area with Great White sharks. Cutting out Jeffrey's Bay has an additional benefit -- we don't have to schlep surfboards and wetsuits all over the place!! YAY!!

(Those stupid surfboards have been a constant companion on almost all of our travels, including to places most people would never dream of surfing. Ireland? Morocco? "Let's take the surfboards; there might be waves and they probably won't be crowded!!&quot

The other topic that you all have been a huge help on has been camera equipment. I went with the 70-300 mm IS lens, and I am busy trying to learn all the controls on my Canon 30D. I'm a complete beginner, so who knows how good the results will be. We're also bringing sketchbooks and art supplies, to force us to slow down a bit and really see what we are looking at.

Thanks again to all! I'm sure I'll have a bunch of additional questions before I leave! If the trip is half as fun as the planning has been, it will be a great one indeed!