Kenya Riots: updates from the ground?
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:29 PM
#61
Thanks Bill_H
I have the luxury that I am not going for months yet.
Thanks again
Percy
I have the luxury that I am not going for months yet.
Thanks again
Percy
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:09 PM
#62
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 2 cents:
I'll contrast Barefootbeach's comments by Africa Adventure on this situation with what they did in another situation in Uganda in 2001. They felt things were not good where I was going in 2001 and immediately worked to change the itinerary for me and my 3 friends at the last minute. They did not charge us for a total of 12 gorilla permits or any other fees, including booking new international flights. So if the situation on the ground looked bad now, I think they would make changes for you as they did for me. That's one little piece of evidence that tells me the Kenya situation at this time is not a danger to tourists.
I'll contrast Barefootbeach's comments by Africa Adventure on this situation with what they did in another situation in Uganda in 2001. They felt things were not good where I was going in 2001 and immediately worked to change the itinerary for me and my 3 friends at the last minute. They did not charge us for a total of 12 gorilla permits or any other fees, including booking new international flights. So if the situation on the ground looked bad now, I think they would make changes for you as they did for me. That's one little piece of evidence that tells me the Kenya situation at this time is not a danger to tourists.
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:28 PM
#63
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Everyone!
I just arrived in Rwanda a few hours ago and spent the night in the Serena Kigali instead of Kenya's House of Waine. I read this thread and noticed that some people are discouraged by their travel agent's unwillingness to change their itineraries. I just want to reiterate that while CCAfrica and my own travel agent gently tried to persuade me that everything was safe it Kenya, I calmly replied that under no circumstances would I travel to Kenya and I am not willing to lose any money. After that statement, everyone accommodated me. House of Waine and Kenya Air refunded my money, Delta changed my tickets to Uganda for $24pp, and CCAfrica put me in different lodges in Tanzania. Now the situation might be different for me for two reasons:
1. I left this week when the situation is still up in the air. I also started the process of changing the itinerary the day all of this broke out.
2. I work with a very "well known" travel agent who does an enormous about of business. Perhaps, she has more pull than others. Not sure. In the past, people have criticized me paying the $200 trip fee she charged. But I think that it was really well worth it given the amount of work she did. In fact, I am definitely going to send her something when I return as an extra thank you.
I was contacted by a big newspaper before i left who is doing a story on tourists traveling to Kenya. Keep an eye out for it in the travel section this Sunday or next. Can't say which one, but you will definitely see it.
While the change in pricing is still not 100% resolved, it seems that at most the change in itinerary cost me about 3,000 in total. So about 10% extra of the trip. Given that I could have lost it all or never even took the vacation, it all seems worth it. I wish everyone luck with whatever you decide. It is obviously a personal decision. However, I know I can't enjoy a vacation if I am scared or stressed. So it was a no brainer for us.
I just arrived in Rwanda a few hours ago and spent the night in the Serena Kigali instead of Kenya's House of Waine. I read this thread and noticed that some people are discouraged by their travel agent's unwillingness to change their itineraries. I just want to reiterate that while CCAfrica and my own travel agent gently tried to persuade me that everything was safe it Kenya, I calmly replied that under no circumstances would I travel to Kenya and I am not willing to lose any money. After that statement, everyone accommodated me. House of Waine and Kenya Air refunded my money, Delta changed my tickets to Uganda for $24pp, and CCAfrica put me in different lodges in Tanzania. Now the situation might be different for me for two reasons:
1. I left this week when the situation is still up in the air. I also started the process of changing the itinerary the day all of this broke out.
2. I work with a very "well known" travel agent who does an enormous about of business. Perhaps, she has more pull than others. Not sure. In the past, people have criticized me paying the $200 trip fee she charged. But I think that it was really well worth it given the amount of work she did. In fact, I am definitely going to send her something when I return as an extra thank you.
I was contacted by a big newspaper before i left who is doing a story on tourists traveling to Kenya. Keep an eye out for it in the travel section this Sunday or next. Can't say which one, but you will definitely see it.
While the change in pricing is still not 100% resolved, it seems that at most the change in itinerary cost me about 3,000 in total. So about 10% extra of the trip. Given that I could have lost it all or never even took the vacation, it all seems worth it. I wish everyone luck with whatever you decide. It is obviously a personal decision. However, I know I can't enjoy a vacation if I am scared or stressed. So it was a no brainer for us.
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:40 PM
#65
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also heard from Kennedy--same sort of thing that ICASH has heard, although a bit better in terms of worries about violence; now some worries about fuel, food, etc. Again, this seems to pertain less to tourists than to people who have been displaced and just regular ol' Kenyans.
The email was somewhat personal (we go back to 2004), so please forgive the paraphrase. The Kenyans I know are wonderful, gracious people who put up with A LOT. I don't want to see them suffer, although I certainly can understand the bitterness regarding the election.
Good luck, those of you who are making choices about travel soon. I would go, but that's me.
The email was somewhat personal (we go back to 2004), so please forgive the paraphrase. The Kenyans I know are wonderful, gracious people who put up with A LOT. I don't want to see them suffer, although I certainly can understand the bitterness regarding the election.
Good luck, those of you who are making choices about travel soon. I would go, but that's me.
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:09 PM
#66
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anyone has any more on-the-ground updates I would sure appreciate that. My daughter reports that where she is on the coast is safe, but food is very limited. It's hard to get information.
The Washington Post has a good description from Peace Corps volunteers who were able to leave west Kenya:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010403859.html
The Kenyan newspapers ran a front page editorial Thursday called Save our Beloved Country that I found to be very moving. http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...;newsid=113850
Perhaps it helped. Things do sound better with less rhetoric.
The Washington Post has a good description from Peace Corps volunteers who were able to leave west Kenya:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010403859.html
The Kenyan newspapers ran a front page editorial Thursday called Save our Beloved Country that I found to be very moving. http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...;newsid=113850
Perhaps it helped. Things do sound better with less rhetoric.
Jan 5th, 2008, 04:57 AM
#67
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,880
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
January 5 update from the company we are using in Nairobi (a mid-sized company with 20 or so jeeps):
<b><i>Hi there - this will hopefully be my final update, as it's all getting a bit repetitive !
The bottom line is that all week, operationally we have managed fine,
and every day looks better than the last, and every guest who is
here, are having arrived or departed has wondered what all the fuss has been about !
The real problem area has been Kisumu in the far west that no
tourists go to anyway ! And in Nairobi the violence is mostly
restricted to the slums, and those areas are easy to avoid. Mombasa
had it's challenges - I flew down there for a New Years Eve party and
landed right in the middle of it ! But again it was not as bad as the
media was portraying. In fact the international media have alot to
answer for, they really have been irresponsible in their reporting.
Kenya is the only country in Africa with an absolutely free and
uncensored press and they really abused that privilege.
I am sure the political bickering will probably continue for a little
longer, maybe one or two minor demonstrations, but I think it is very obvious that the Kenyan on the streets know that compared to the rest of Africa they are very lucky, and so there is a real desire by the mass population themselves to stop the problems and get back to
normal. Believe it or not - Kenya is one of the few African countries
who feel they have too much to lose, which is why the population as a whole declined to participate in the called for "million man march" that did not even muster one thousand ! And they came from "Rent a Mob Inc."
It's exactly like the Rodney King / L.A. riots of 1992 - look at how
quickly that violence was forgotten - and they certainly did not stop people from visiting Yosemite or Yellowstone - so hopefully we are seeing the start of the healing process already and Kenya can recover quite quickly too. </i></b>
<b><i>Hi there - this will hopefully be my final update, as it's all getting a bit repetitive !
The bottom line is that all week, operationally we have managed fine,
and every day looks better than the last, and every guest who is
here, are having arrived or departed has wondered what all the fuss has been about !
The real problem area has been Kisumu in the far west that no
tourists go to anyway ! And in Nairobi the violence is mostly
restricted to the slums, and those areas are easy to avoid. Mombasa
had it's challenges - I flew down there for a New Years Eve party and
landed right in the middle of it ! But again it was not as bad as the
media was portraying. In fact the international media have alot to
answer for, they really have been irresponsible in their reporting.
Kenya is the only country in Africa with an absolutely free and
uncensored press and they really abused that privilege.
I am sure the political bickering will probably continue for a little
longer, maybe one or two minor demonstrations, but I think it is very obvious that the Kenyan on the streets know that compared to the rest of Africa they are very lucky, and so there is a real desire by the mass population themselves to stop the problems and get back to
normal. Believe it or not - Kenya is one of the few African countries
who feel they have too much to lose, which is why the population as a whole declined to participate in the called for "million man march" that did not even muster one thousand ! And they came from "Rent a Mob Inc."
It's exactly like the Rodney King / L.A. riots of 1992 - look at how
quickly that violence was forgotten - and they certainly did not stop people from visiting Yosemite or Yellowstone - so hopefully we are seeing the start of the healing process already and Kenya can recover quite quickly too. </i></b>
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:26 AM
#68
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm.
I can tell the author what the fuss was all about - 300+ dead and some in the most brutal ways and thousands of people displaced with dark days ahead for many.
What exactly did the media do wrong?
Many people I know in Kenya are greatful for the media who very quickly sent out images of horrible things to the world - and the international community reacted by putting huge pressure on the Kenya leadership. Without those images of people being hacked by machetes the situation could be worse today.
If the media did nothing and ignored Kenya the rhetoric would be exactly the opposite - the tour companies would've complained that nobody cares about Kenya!
The negative effect on tourism was very small IMO. Very few safaris were canceled so the tour companies have no reason to complain. It could've been a lot worse. A lot.
Instead they should be concerned about restoring supply routes and normalizing things. Forget about blaming the media.
I can tell the author what the fuss was all about - 300+ dead and some in the most brutal ways and thousands of people displaced with dark days ahead for many.
What exactly did the media do wrong?
Many people I know in Kenya are greatful for the media who very quickly sent out images of horrible things to the world - and the international community reacted by putting huge pressure on the Kenya leadership. Without those images of people being hacked by machetes the situation could be worse today.
If the media did nothing and ignored Kenya the rhetoric would be exactly the opposite - the tour companies would've complained that nobody cares about Kenya!
The negative effect on tourism was very small IMO. Very few safaris were canceled so the tour companies have no reason to complain. It could've been a lot worse. A lot.
Instead they should be concerned about restoring supply routes and normalizing things. Forget about blaming the media.
Jan 5th, 2008, 10:27 AM
#69
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I'm looking at the current news in my country and then read some opinions at Fodors, it's like looking at two worlds. If sandi says that she saw the same footage again and again for days on a certain news network, then I guess this is exactly what Bill's Nairobi source is criticizing.
Jan 5th, 2008, 12:42 PM
#70
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because I have the capability to provide emergency 4WD vehicles and such to relief organizations, I get email updates about issues in Kenya. I can tell you there is a big need for support/donations.
Here is an excellent medical summary of the mounting problems facing the country. The figures are large, especially the number of children hurt. And who knows what will happen next.
This is real and not a media dramatization so you may want to forward the link to your Kenya tour companies who wonder what the fuss is about.
http://www.imcworldwide.org/content/...FQUllgodIXM5WQ
Here is an excellent medical summary of the mounting problems facing the country. The figures are large, especially the number of children hurt. And who knows what will happen next.
This is real and not a media dramatization so you may want to forward the link to your Kenya tour companies who wonder what the fuss is about.
http://www.imcworldwide.org/content/...FQUllgodIXM5WQ
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:03 PM
#72
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
The medical people see the disease and devastation; the media see the tribal clashes; the tour companies see the game-drive areas.
Each of us tends to believe our (valuable) insight is the whole truth.
Jess
Jan 5th, 2008, 02:06 PM
#73
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Climbinghigh, I think you're missing the point.
No one thinks the media are making this stuff up.
I think what we're saying is that there's never going to be a news story in saying "...and in other parts of Kenya, life goes on as normal and thousands of tourists are enjoying their holidays, contributing to the country's massive tourism trade..."
As someone who donates heavily to various service organizations on a regular basis, I understand the need - especially now. But there's nothing more I can do.
There's probably (and I'm hoping) another 3/4 of the country that are trying to go to work, pay bills, get an education, and lead safaris. And no news outlet will tell you that because it's not "news".
I think this country needs its $880 million dollars in tourism and I'd like to help contribute to that, starting on the 18th.
I'm confident that I care enough about others and do enough to help within the parameters of my life. So I keep checking and re-checking in hopes that my travel plans will remain intact.
Please keep those "on the ground" tourism industry updates coming.
No one thinks the media are making this stuff up.
I think what we're saying is that there's never going to be a news story in saying "...and in other parts of Kenya, life goes on as normal and thousands of tourists are enjoying their holidays, contributing to the country's massive tourism trade..."
As someone who donates heavily to various service organizations on a regular basis, I understand the need - especially now. But there's nothing more I can do.
There's probably (and I'm hoping) another 3/4 of the country that are trying to go to work, pay bills, get an education, and lead safaris. And no news outlet will tell you that because it's not "news".
I think this country needs its $880 million dollars in tourism and I'd like to help contribute to that, starting on the 18th.
I'm confident that I care enough about others and do enough to help within the parameters of my life. So I keep checking and re-checking in hopes that my travel plans will remain intact.
Please keep those "on the ground" tourism industry updates coming.
Jan 5th, 2008, 02:56 PM
#74
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May I offer one suggestion/warning...
In looking at my trip cancellation/travel insurance for our visit to Africa in July 2008 (we are not going to Kenya, but I was curious!), there is a clause which states that if the Canadian government has issued a warning about travel to a particular area, and if we fail to heed that warning and choose to go to that destination anyway, then the insurance company will not cover us in the event of any emergency while we are there (even, I gather, if the emergency isn't related to whatever has led to the warning!).
Looking at the Government of Canada website (www.voyage.gc.ca), I found that "Foregin Affairs advises against non-essential travel to Kenya...." I suspect that statement might be enough to invalidate our insurance if we had booked a trip to Kenya and went ahead with the trip. Check your insurance, if you have purchased any for your trip. It might not be the best time to be uninsured!
I don't envy you your situation. If you do choose to go, go well! Robin
In looking at my trip cancellation/travel insurance for our visit to Africa in July 2008 (we are not going to Kenya, but I was curious!), there is a clause which states that if the Canadian government has issued a warning about travel to a particular area, and if we fail to heed that warning and choose to go to that destination anyway, then the insurance company will not cover us in the event of any emergency while we are there (even, I gather, if the emergency isn't related to whatever has led to the warning!).
Looking at the Government of Canada website (www.voyage.gc.ca), I found that "Foregin Affairs advises against non-essential travel to Kenya...." I suspect that statement might be enough to invalidate our insurance if we had booked a trip to Kenya and went ahead with the trip. Check your insurance, if you have purchased any for your trip. It might not be the best time to be uninsured!
I don't envy you your situation. If you do choose to go, go well! Robin
Jan 5th, 2008, 03:32 PM
#75
It is a heck of a way to go and worry about your holiday situation.
If the Government has an advisory out about travelling to Kenya...
then do not expect them to send a plane there to bail you out.
And Insurance companies just love to
have a reason to say your insurance is not vaild because of this or that.
Good Luck to all you brave souls that I still going soon, I wish you all the best.
Percy
Percy
If the Government has an advisory out about travelling to Kenya...
then do not expect them to send a plane there to bail you out.
And Insurance companies just love to
have a reason to say your insurance is not vaild because of this or that.
Good Luck to all you brave souls that I still going soon, I wish you all the best.
Percy
Percy
Jan 5th, 2008, 04:03 PM
#76
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jan 5th, 2008, 04:49 PM
#77
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,880
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<b> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_923.html
Current US advisory - not quite so dire.</b>
Jess, this one was actually last updated October 18, 2007
This is the most up-to-date link:
http://nairobi.usembassy.gov/warden_20080104.html
<b>if the Canadian government has issued a warning about travel to a particular area, and if we fail to heed that warning and choose to go to that destination anyway, then the insurance company will not cover us in the event of any emergency while we are there</b>
Robin, I think the US Gov't issued such a warning for Kenya after the embassy bombings in 1998 and it is still in effect. So US citizens have not been covered for almost 10 years.
Anyone catch the CNN show on Kenya today (Saturday)? Starts off lumping Kenya with Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Rwanda and the Congo as failed African nations and asks "Can Kenya be saved?", describes the current conflict as "ethnic cleansing" and says the border areas near Uganda and Tanzania where Kenyans are fleeing are "lawless" and thus "ripe for terrorism". Hmmm ... more balanced journalism I guess.
Bill
Current US advisory - not quite so dire.</b>
Jess, this one was actually last updated October 18, 2007
This is the most up-to-date link:
http://nairobi.usembassy.gov/warden_20080104.html
<b>if the Canadian government has issued a warning about travel to a particular area, and if we fail to heed that warning and choose to go to that destination anyway, then the insurance company will not cover us in the event of any emergency while we are there</b>
Robin, I think the US Gov't issued such a warning for Kenya after the embassy bombings in 1998 and it is still in effect. So US citizens have not been covered for almost 10 years.
Anyone catch the CNN show on Kenya today (Saturday)? Starts off lumping Kenya with Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Rwanda and the Congo as failed African nations and asks "Can Kenya be saved?", describes the current conflict as "ethnic cleansing" and says the border areas near Uganda and Tanzania where Kenyans are fleeing are "lawless" and thus "ripe for terrorism". Hmmm ... more balanced journalism I guess.
Bill
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM
#78
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bill H. Thanks for the other link. Actually, the texts are very similar, although the Warden's is more detailed; the earlier advisory seems to have been vetted by State as well as it claims to be current as of 5 January.
Jess
Jess
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:47 PM
#79
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For what it's worth (and I do not know what it is worth), one might compare the following language:
"The Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens against all travel to Somalia,"
with:
"The Department continues to recommend that private American citizens in Kenya evaluate their personal security situation in light of ...."
and
"This Warden Message is being issued to alert American citizens to the security situation following disputed elections in Kenya. U.S. citizens should strongly consider the risks of travel to Kenya at this time. continuing terrorist threats and increasing incidents of violent crime....."
Jess
"The Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens against all travel to Somalia,"
with:
"The Department continues to recommend that private American citizens in Kenya evaluate their personal security situation in light of ...."
and
"This Warden Message is being issued to alert American citizens to the security situation following disputed elections in Kenya. U.S. citizens should strongly consider the risks of travel to Kenya at this time. continuing terrorist threats and increasing incidents of violent crime....."
Jess
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM
#80
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Governments understandably tend to err on the side of caution when issuing travel advice. Here's the Australian DFAT's latest, urging people to reconsider their need to go to Kenya (note the references to some border areas, Uganda and Tanzania included):
http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-c...w/Advice/Kenya
http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-c...w/Advice/Kenya
