Kenya Riots: updates from the ground?
Feb 1st, 2008, 10:13 AM
#181
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Here is an article about the peace agreement. I hope it works out. http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...275403,00.html
Feb 3rd, 2008, 07:51 PM
#182
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I was reading through the thread of e-mails and was wondering what people were realy questioning... is it safe to travel there? should i feel bad about travelling there when people are being killed, hurt and displaced... One e-mail mentioned that ther are armed patrols at certain places - so everything is under control...How ridiculous!!!! It's a third world country - there is risk!
I absolutely love Kenya!! I have read numerous books about it and just had to go. Two years ago My husband and I left our 18 month daughter in the care of her grandmother and flew to Nairobi. We went thru armed gates and Metal detectors to get into the Hilton Hotel/Nairobi. Since we had a few extra days before our safari. We hired a driver (very expensive) for an excursion to Lake Naivaisha. The driver kept urging us to leave before dark. We were late leaving. The driver sped as fast as he could - there were armed patrols at various places on the roads... at each of the "checkpoints" there are spikes in the roads forcing you to slow down...the patrols carry differnt makes of weapons (some russian, some american, etc...). Things were happening on the sides of the roads - people, cars, slums, it was scary. Many, Many people are walking the streets - nicely dressed business people BUT My husband and I were the ONLY WHITE people in pure daylight walking in the streets of Nairobi. We went to the museaum and the archives across from the hotel etc. It was the strangest feeling in the world. Were we crazy? - probably. I chose a special safari tour because I wanted to go North to Samburu. We went there, Mt Kenya, Nakuru, Maisa Mara... It was the most amazing time ever - all of it!! The bumpy roads, the scary drives, the patrols... You have to ask yourself WHY do you want to go to Kenya and then you will know your answer. Upon my return i was lookign up some information and found out that just 2 weeks after we returned - a tourist, mini van was taken over by rebels in the Maisa Mara - one of the tourists was badly injured. Could that have been us - most certainly. Could the embassy or anothe buidling be blown up again - of course. Kenya is not a safe place BUT the tour guides to take every precaution - I would look at the maps and ask why are we taking this round about way to get somewhere... why because many roads are so bad with rebels and such taht they cannot risk it. With everything that is going on there now - certainly not the best time to go BUT what is it that you want to experience and learn. Many external safaris dont even bring you into Nairobi any more because of the bombings... so think about it... My trip was 2 years ago.. I cant imagine what it is like now... I am sad. Kenya is SO beautiful and it's people so amazing, so diverse...
I absolutely love Kenya!! I have read numerous books about it and just had to go. Two years ago My husband and I left our 18 month daughter in the care of her grandmother and flew to Nairobi. We went thru armed gates and Metal detectors to get into the Hilton Hotel/Nairobi. Since we had a few extra days before our safari. We hired a driver (very expensive) for an excursion to Lake Naivaisha. The driver kept urging us to leave before dark. We were late leaving. The driver sped as fast as he could - there were armed patrols at various places on the roads... at each of the "checkpoints" there are spikes in the roads forcing you to slow down...the patrols carry differnt makes of weapons (some russian, some american, etc...). Things were happening on the sides of the roads - people, cars, slums, it was scary. Many, Many people are walking the streets - nicely dressed business people BUT My husband and I were the ONLY WHITE people in pure daylight walking in the streets of Nairobi. We went to the museaum and the archives across from the hotel etc. It was the strangest feeling in the world. Were we crazy? - probably. I chose a special safari tour because I wanted to go North to Samburu. We went there, Mt Kenya, Nakuru, Maisa Mara... It was the most amazing time ever - all of it!! The bumpy roads, the scary drives, the patrols... You have to ask yourself WHY do you want to go to Kenya and then you will know your answer. Upon my return i was lookign up some information and found out that just 2 weeks after we returned - a tourist, mini van was taken over by rebels in the Maisa Mara - one of the tourists was badly injured. Could that have been us - most certainly. Could the embassy or anothe buidling be blown up again - of course. Kenya is not a safe place BUT the tour guides to take every precaution - I would look at the maps and ask why are we taking this round about way to get somewhere... why because many roads are so bad with rebels and such taht they cannot risk it. With everything that is going on there now - certainly not the best time to go BUT what is it that you want to experience and learn. Many external safaris dont even bring you into Nairobi any more because of the bombings... so think about it... My trip was 2 years ago.. I cant imagine what it is like now... I am sad. Kenya is SO beautiful and it's people so amazing, so diverse...
Feb 4th, 2008, 07:21 AM
#183
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Moni, I’m very confused by your post. You went to Kenya 2 years ago, not this year, but you describe the country as if it were some kind of war zone – “roads bad with rebels”(???). I’ve been to Kenya 4 times and don’t recognise your description at all. Maybe it’s because I haven’t stayed in hotels with metal detectors and have sometimes moved around on public transport without expensive drivers who, for business reasons, don’t want you do anything without their babysitting. Of course you weren’t crazy for walking the streets in Nairobi city centre in pure daylight. I do it at night feeling very safe. The minivan in the Mara was robbed by criminals, not “taken over by rebels”. “Many external safaris don’t even bring you into Nairobi any more because of the bombings...” ¿Qué? If this kind of thoughts make you feel you’ve done something really wild and crazy by going on a tourist trip to Kenya, it might be good for you, but don’t scare away tourists with your fantasies! Before this “post-election violence” the problems Kenya had was a disgusting and enormous problem with unequal distribution of wealth, with the majority living in poverty that didn’t only imply stress and boredom, but many also had difficulty getting enough food and then there was a problem with some really nasty crime, but that is a problem in most rich countries as well. Tourists didn’t have any problems (apart from the cost of safaris) - and they still don’t.
BTW, I’ve not exactly understood if this thread is about Kenya or about tourists in Kenya.
The situation is serious and there’s lots of information everywhere for anyone that’s interested. There’s no need to read that a Fodorite happened to hear on the news that there is violence in a Kenyan town when you can easily read about it in newspapers and blogs. What you could get information about here is if there’s any danger to tourists – from people who have moved around the tourist itineraries - and from what I’ve understood there’s not. Nothing happens to a Fodorite staying at a hotel in Nairobi and going to different game parks by air or road. The worst thing would be being stopped at a roadblock made up by angry youths, but as the Fodorite wouldn’t be identified as Luo or Kalenjin, or as a Kikuyu further west, there’s not really any danger. I’ve posted a link to a website that’s been created to document what’s going on hoping Fodorites would give the link to their Kenyan contacts, but after seeing it used on other forums as a scary map with red flames that make people reconsider their travel plans – and thus causing people in the tourist industry with many dependants to lose their jobs - I almost regret it. I’m not that sure that information for people around the world is going to help Kenyans. The reactions from people in the “comments” functions of newspapers – confused words about “Africa” - tend to prove that information doesn’t lead to understanding or caring.
BTW, I’ve not exactly understood if this thread is about Kenya or about tourists in Kenya.
The situation is serious and there’s lots of information everywhere for anyone that’s interested. There’s no need to read that a Fodorite happened to hear on the news that there is violence in a Kenyan town when you can easily read about it in newspapers and blogs. What you could get information about here is if there’s any danger to tourists – from people who have moved around the tourist itineraries - and from what I’ve understood there’s not. Nothing happens to a Fodorite staying at a hotel in Nairobi and going to different game parks by air or road. The worst thing would be being stopped at a roadblock made up by angry youths, but as the Fodorite wouldn’t be identified as Luo or Kalenjin, or as a Kikuyu further west, there’s not really any danger. I’ve posted a link to a website that’s been created to document what’s going on hoping Fodorites would give the link to their Kenyan contacts, but after seeing it used on other forums as a scary map with red flames that make people reconsider their travel plans – and thus causing people in the tourist industry with many dependants to lose their jobs - I almost regret it. I’m not that sure that information for people around the world is going to help Kenyans. The reactions from people in the “comments” functions of newspapers – confused words about “Africa” - tend to prove that information doesn’t lead to understanding or caring.
Feb 4th, 2008, 08:20 AM
#184
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Most of the major hotels in Nairobi do have security and check beneath vehicles and inside trunks. Nothing new... it's been this way since the Embassy bombings in '98.
Yes, there are police roadblocks with spoke strips on the roads throughout Kenya. Nothing new, saw this back in '96.
Yes, about 2/yrs back there was one safari vehicle, stopped by bandits in/outskirts of the Mara; no one was hurt, though their items were stolen. Tourist police found the bandits by next day and items returned to tourists.
Yes, I've walked about the streets of Nairobi during the day and no one gave me any thought, nor I them. Just going about going about. Haven't had reason to be walking about at night, so don't; plenty of places at home I wouldn't walk at night.
Kenya is a Third-World country, but quite civilized and safe. Of course there is extreme poverty that many of us in the west don't see "in-your-face", but I'm sure one would find similar circumstances if they'd look closer in/around their own towns/communities. Consider how many areas in Mississippi that don't have running water.
Being in Kenya 2/years ago for me was no different then when I first visited in '96 and the years in-between. Over the years I've seen a growing middle-class, even wealthy-class, but also more poverty. Sounds like so many other places around the world.
Yes, there are police roadblocks with spoke strips on the roads throughout Kenya. Nothing new, saw this back in '96.
Yes, about 2/yrs back there was one safari vehicle, stopped by bandits in/outskirts of the Mara; no one was hurt, though their items were stolen. Tourist police found the bandits by next day and items returned to tourists.
Yes, I've walked about the streets of Nairobi during the day and no one gave me any thought, nor I them. Just going about going about. Haven't had reason to be walking about at night, so don't; plenty of places at home I wouldn't walk at night.
Kenya is a Third-World country, but quite civilized and safe. Of course there is extreme poverty that many of us in the west don't see "in-your-face", but I'm sure one would find similar circumstances if they'd look closer in/around their own towns/communities. Consider how many areas in Mississippi that don't have running water.
Being in Kenya 2/years ago for me was no different then when I first visited in '96 and the years in-between. Over the years I've seen a growing middle-class, even wealthy-class, but also more poverty. Sounds like so many other places around the world.
Feb 4th, 2008, 12:13 PM
#185
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There are some thoughts around that travellers should make their own decisions about cancelling trips to Kenya and do what feels best for them. I don’t agree. There are no real threats to tourists, but the cancellations are hurting people working in the tourist industry in a very real way. Just go to Kenya!
Feb 4th, 2008, 12:22 PM
#186
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I repeat my fundamental question. By going/or not to Kenya what message am I sending to Kenyans?
By going am I saying - I support Kenya, all of the good hard working people.
Or, by NOT going am I saying - I do not support your senseless murdering of each other and I will return when it stops.
Which action, going or not going, will help stop the murdering?
regards - tom
By going am I saying - I support Kenya, all of the good hard working people.
Or, by NOT going am I saying - I do not support your senseless murdering of each other and I will return when it stops.
Which action, going or not going, will help stop the murdering?
regards - tom
Feb 4th, 2008, 12:54 PM
#187
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<b><i>There are some thoughts around that travellers should make their own decisions about cancelling trips to Kenya and do what feels best for them. I don’t agree.</i></b>
I've always felt that if someone wants to pay for my trips then I'll give them a say in where I go. If they aren't paying the tab then it's absolutely none of their business.
Bill
I've always felt that if someone wants to pay for my trips then I'll give them a say in where I go. If they aren't paying the tab then it's absolutely none of their business.
Bill
Feb 4th, 2008, 01:00 PM
#188
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Tom, the Kenyans who are murdering other Kenyans will not notice any “message” sent by you. I don’t know how to stop the murdering, but I have no doubt it’s easier to find a solution and a better way of doing this thing called Kenya with a working tourist industry than with a destroyed one.
Feb 4th, 2008, 01:20 PM
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Bill, I did notice you too had written something in the style – as have several others and I could have said something similar myself without thinking. You did go to Kenya and I didn’t want to “attack” you. It’s better to go to Kenya than not to go to Kenya and I will continue saying so even to people whose trips I’m not paying. I understand that you were offended. I would have been too.
Feb 4th, 2008, 02:15 PM
#190
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A lot of emotion with a common theme in that everyone loves the country, is deeply upaset and has high emotions.
For what it's worth, I've decided to go ahead and am flying to Nairobi tomorrow for six nights in a deserted Mara - will report back !
Phil
For what it's worth, I've decided to go ahead and am flying to Nairobi tomorrow for six nights in a deserted Mara - will report back !
Phil
Feb 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Aha Nyamera, I know you are right about the murderers not caring one half cent about my "message". I was waiting for someone to make this/your point.
BUT the people who do care about my message are those that have the power (maybe?) to stop the murdering. That is, if the government (who/what ever that is) realizes that the loss of tourism $$$ may affect them, then maybe, perhaps, they will do something about the murdering. Until the officials have an incentive to stop it, it will continue. Obviously the murderers themselves have no incentive to stop. Somebody has to get the their "attention".
regards - tom
BUT the people who do care about my message are those that have the power (maybe?) to stop the murdering. That is, if the government (who/what ever that is) realizes that the loss of tourism $$$ may affect them, then maybe, perhaps, they will do something about the murdering. Until the officials have an incentive to stop it, it will continue. Obviously the murderers themselves have no incentive to stop. Somebody has to get the their "attention".
regards - tom
Feb 5th, 2008, 07:38 AM
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Tom, do you think Kibaki and Raila would be more motivated to find an agreement and talk seriously to their supporters if you didn’t go to Kenya? As the tourist sector already is in a state of disaster and you’re going on a Mediterranean cruise, it doesn’t seem like that is the case. I’m not even that sure they would be able to stop the violence. To find out what you personally could do, you’d have to find out exactly what’s happening, what groups of people are involved, in what way and why, and what the historical roots to this problem are etc. I’m trying (a bit), but all I know is that I can donate some money for the displaced people and not cancel any trip plans so that I don’t participate in the destruction of the tourism industry.
