Economic Troubles

Oct 1st, 2008, 01:21 AM
  #21  
 
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Oh I do dislike self-imposed forum police.

Threads EVOLVE and Lynn's broader question of whether any posters here have altered travel plans because of the economic situation is relevant to the original post.

I see no problem with widening the discussion to other destinations, provided the core of the discussion remains about impact of economics on travel to Africa.

So, I'll go ahead and respond thanks, Ted and make up my own decisions about whether this constitutes a hi-jack to the thread.

Eenusa, we are heading to Antarctica in a few weeks time and can't wait. Our main issue with the finances for this trip has been down to the increase in oil prices rather than the overal economic prices. We were hit with a fuel surcharge of £525 (GBP) EACH! Ouch! We decided to pay up and go ahead with the trip but it was a lot of extra money to suddenly have to find.

And that leads me back to Africa travel, as I am sure prices for safaris are also being impacted by fuel surcharges for internal flights and for road trips too, perhaps.

I was having a conversation with a London cabbie last night, as you do, and we both agreed that, in all honesty, Joe Public in the UK hasn't really felt the impact of the so called Credit Crunch yet. With the exception of those directly working in banks/ associated businesses that have been laid off/ are in danger of losing jobs the rest of us working in different industries aren't really seeing job losses. Which means we have same money coming in so surely not that big an impact. Food, grocery and general shopping prices have gone up this year but not enough that I can see them genuinely impacting on the budget available for travel for many people.

To me, right now, it seems more about a failure in confidence, egged on by media exaggeration than Joe Public's finances really being hit harder this year and therefore not being able to afford holidays.

But at the end of the day, hard to really pin down reasons for lower tourist volumes when there are so many potential factors.
Kavey is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 02:32 AM
  #22  
 
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Author: Kavey ([email protected])
Date: 10/01/2008, 05:21 am
Oh I do dislike self-imposed forum police.





So, I'll go ahead and respond thanks, Ted and make up my own decisions about whether this constitutes a hi-jack to the thread.

I was having a conversation with a London cabbie last night, as you do, and we both agreed that, in all honesty, Joe Public in the UK hasn't really felt the impact of the so called Credit Crunch yet.

Thanks Kavey for all of your incredible insights (the cabbie is just super) and your marvelous sense of forum etiquette. Any thoughts on the British Pound dropping 16% against the US dollar. Perhaps what seasickness remedy you will use on your upcoming trip to Antartica, or what clothing you will be taking?


The OP asks "Have any of you who frequent Africa seen a reduction in American/European tourists? Have the camps been empty?" What about that is too difficult for you to understand??
Ted
Temba is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 04:13 AM
  #23  
 
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Kavey - thanks and have a wonderful time ... as I will with my own travel plans (non-Africa, I'm afraid). Like you and many others, I only book once I know I have the cash I need to pay for the trip, so no impact from the current economic troubles at this point. Of course, the current troubles may mean a further delay for our return to Africa ... but, we'll eventually get back there.
eenusa is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 05:46 AM
  #24  
 
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Ted, I understand forum etiquette just fine thanks, having been posting and interacting with other posters here on Fodors since 1998/99.

Whilst I'd agree that one doesn't want to hijack threads willy-nilly it's also accepted that threads will deviate from original topics. Where this is on related tangents, most people in most forums are usually pretty reasonable about it.

It's kind of how open conversation works.

I mentioned in my post above that "threads evolve" and that I saw no problem with "widening the discussion to other destinations, provided the core of the discussion remains about impact of economics on travel" so clearly I wasn't responding directly to the question about empty camps. What about that is too difficult for you to understand??

Unless you've been appointed a secret moderator or board admin, why don't you get off your high horse? Read or don't read, as you prefer but please don't try and tell me what and where to post. It won't serve any purpose since your inability to make your point in a polite manner serves only to get backs up.

I suspect, had you tried to use a little common courtesy and word your request more politely, I might have made more effort.
Kavey is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 05:50 AM
  #25  
 
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Actually, to be fair, it wasn't your original post that I found rude but your response to eenusa that was so patronising.
Kavey is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 06:06 AM
  #26  
 
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Just can't get a grip can you?
Temba is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 06:17 AM
  #27  
 
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Furthermore in my original response I said "no offense" twice. How polite was that? (note my smiley face) I'm finished with this thread, as interesting as it started out to be. You two should exchange email addresses so that you can continue your facinating discussion.
Ted
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Oct 1st, 2008, 07:10 AM
  #28  
 
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Ouch Kavey, that is a huge fuel surcharge to get hit with, I'm sorry for you.

That occurence is very relevant to how market forces may impact safari travelers. I have had a $15 per flight leg passed on by Sanctuary Lodges in Botswana for an existing booking. It's virtually always in the terms that such costs can be passed on to clients but because it angers people I think most operations try hard to avoid it but if energy costs continue to soar or occupancy rates lower due to the economy I would expect it to become more common to pass such rising costs onto customers who are already booked.
PredatorBiologist is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 01:56 PM
  #29  
 
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Lovejl, I hope your $ sitution works out. Yikes.

Mea Culpa! I had to go and put a twist on the quesiton and open it up to tangents.

Kavey, Was the option to cancel the Antarctica trip wo/penalty offered instead of the surcharge? Just wondering about general surcharge protocol. I doubt the $15 added to Predator's flights would come with an opt out.

Now I'll really do a 180 on this thread. So Kavey, have you created any more animal sculptures out of pizza dough?

But wait, I'm reining it back in...Or have you been curtailing your restaurant dining due to Economic Troubles?

No harm done because I'm putting in smileys that make it all ok.
atravelynn is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 02:44 PM
  #30  
 
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Patty, how dare you book a non-Africa trip!!!
safaridude is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 06:23 PM
  #31  
 
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In the words of aby, I'll be "cheating on old Africa" again

Patty is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 07:19 PM
  #32  
 
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This thread and the vagaries thereof have put a smile on my face in what is a very trying day, so thanks. I don't know how to use smiley faces but I hope it is ok to post this off topic remark.
twaffle is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 07:32 PM
  #33  
 
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Speaking of off-topic, has anyone else heard about increasing gorilla fees to 1k per trek?

To return to topic, I had/have promised myself that I would not return to "old Africa" until I had all my pennies and vacation days accumulated for 2 gorilla treks + at least six days' regular safari. Not sure when that will happen. Cheating in the meantime.
Leely2 is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 07:32 PM
  #34  
 
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Oprah earns enough money in a half hour to buy a new car.

Yes, I'm working on my pictures and trip report.
matnikstym is offline  
Oct 1st, 2008, 08:10 PM
  #35  
 
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I almost feel unclean reading this thread in Japan at a hot springs resort (where it is a magnificent autumn midday, with leaves starting to turn bright red).

However, I agree with Bill_H and others who suggest that the impact will be mostly felt by those people who are just in the planning stages now, for trips in 2009 and beyond.
DonTopaz is online now  
Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:55 AM
  #36  
 
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We weren't offered the option of cancelling and getting a refund because of the rules here that mean that if a fuel surcharge is less than 10% of the original holiday price, the operator does not have to give cancellation rights to the customer. Oddly enough, they wrote saying that the actual increased costs were $96 per person per day but that they were only levying a surcharge that amounted to $50 per person per day. That cleverly keeps the total just beneath that 10% margin.

That said, had I wanted to cancel, I suspect the company I booked with would have done their best to see what they could do given the size of the surcharge.

I did indeed make more pizza animals last week (as part of my bday meal at that same restaurant) and did a lovely ostrich. Sadly it's feet fell off when they attached it to the wall so it looks a bit odd now, to say the least. Then again, the dough eles feet have fallen off too so it's in good company!

As for curtailing general spending because of the economic situation, to be honest, we've not been spending any differently to normal as, right now, we're both bringing in slightly more than we did last year, which offsets the increased prices on food and fuel for the moment. IF things get worse, I'd certainly rather curtail my normal spending at home (on restaurants or other non-essential shopping) rather than curtail my travelling!

Kavey is offline  
Oct 2nd, 2008, 04:57 PM
  #37  
 
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Twaffle,
Here's a link for smileys and so much more--shamrocks, beer mugs, hearts, devil faces. It could become a part time job creating all of this smiley art.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/smileys/

Patty,
I hope the permits don't increase to $1000 because with 4 of them that's a lot more money--$2000 to be exact. I have already bought them for $500. Last time I bought the permits almost 2 years in advance and I did have to pay the increase from $250 to $400 at that time.

With the world economic slump, PNV officials may think twice about an increase of that magnitude.

If you decide to go, maybe I'll see you on the mountain in August??

In the meantime happy cheating.

Kavey,
What a timely question I posed. An ostrich this time! And belated Happy Birthday. Might you be a Libra?

I don't think I am capable of segueing from feetless dough animals back to our topic of economic troubles. But I'll try. How about, "I'd rather have economic troubles than no feet."

But then, I'd rather have unclean feet like Rizzuto's than economic troubles.

With another 300+ drop in the DOW and financial (not to mention all the other kinds of) turmoil world wide, what else can we do but spew silliness?

atravelynn is offline  
Oct 2nd, 2008, 10:22 PM
  #38  
 
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Lynn - thanks for the smilies link I'll start practicing =D>
twaffle is offline  
Oct 2nd, 2008, 11:05 PM
  #39  
 
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My biggest concern here in Australia is our dollar, just on 2 1/2 months ago it reached 98c to the US$. It's currently now 78c!
Fortunately we have booked and payed over half our 19 night Sept'09 Botswana trip earlier, when our $ was stronger.
And to think that it's NOT our economy that's in trouble!! Our banks and financial institutions are all very sound, probably the best in the world atm.
........US sneezes, we catch the cold. :-\

Cheers
Marc
africaddict is offline  
Oct 2nd, 2008, 11:35 PM
  #40  
 
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"US sneezes, we catch the cold"

Probably more like multinational companies that try to avoid paying taxes and CEO's of those subprime lenders (see it spreading to Europe, we do).

I don't think I would blame it on any country now, like mine, as multi national companies are making traveling to other countries like Africa, more difficult, mosty because of their greed.

See the buy out /bail/out proposal and the "pork barrel"? That is a term for the loading the dice, or sell your votes, so to speak ( they add on free stuff for their respective states) We see it here in North America and perhaps you do too.

But that is Not going to take away our wish, and fortunately, ability to visit the Africa. Experiencing different cultures is what Life is all about.

just my view


realoc is offline  

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