Eastern @ Southern/Leopard vs. CC Africa
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:08 AM
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Eastern @ Southern/Leopard vs. CC Africa
Author: ScarlettO
Date: 10/30/2007, 07:58 am
I am trying to decide between 2 quotes for same itinerary and accomodations. One is by Eastern & Southern partnering with Leopard Tours and the other quote is by a travel agent using CC AFrica. I'd LOVE to hear comments comparing the two operators (E&S w/Leopard vs. CC Africa). I am most interested in hearing about ease and service. Accommodations are almost identical. I am interested in hearing about the driver/guides, service, vehicles and any other info comparing the two. Thank you!
Date: 10/30/2007, 07:58 am
I am trying to decide between 2 quotes for same itinerary and accomodations. One is by Eastern & Southern partnering with Leopard Tours and the other quote is by a travel agent using CC AFrica. I'd LOVE to hear comments comparing the two operators (E&S w/Leopard vs. CC Africa). I am most interested in hearing about ease and service. Accommodations are almost identical. I am interested in hearing about the driver/guides, service, vehicles and any other info comparing the two. Thank you!
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:11 AM
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I have booked with CCA before as part of a stay at their own camps..... excellent service!!!
Where are you going to? If you are staying at their own properties ...... you are better off booking with them directly!
Hari
Where are you going to? If you are staying at their own properties ...... you are better off booking with them directly!
Hari
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:22 AM
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HariS - going to Kenya and Tanzania - Properties are: Fairmont Norfolk Hotel, Larsen's, Kichwa Tembo, Serengeti Serena Safari Lodge, Ngorongoro Serena Safari Lodge, Lake Manyara Serena Safari. If I chose CC Africa I would use the agent who has invested a lot of his time.
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:24 AM
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Haven't used either (on 3 Tanzania safaris) but the hearsay on Leopard is that they are one of the largest companies with well over 100 jeeps and drivers, so the best drivers are excellent (they have specialists who speak Mandarin Chinese, for example) but there is a lot of turn-over in the bottom say 25% and if you get one of the new guys he might not be up to par. Often their best, most experienced guides appear to be reserved for their biggest customers (tour companies who book in large blocks year after year) and the solo traveler booking a one-of trip would have lower priority when it comes to assigning guides.
Or so one hears on the streets of Arusha and the picnic areas at Ngorongoro ...
I know of two people who run photography safaris who at one time used Leopard because of their low cost and then switched to other mid-sized companies because they felt the guiding from Leopard was uneven.
Dunno about CCA, they are typically a more high-end provider.
Bill
Or so one hears on the streets of Arusha and the picnic areas at Ngorongoro ...
I know of two people who run photography safaris who at one time used Leopard because of their low cost and then switched to other mid-sized companies because they felt the guiding from Leopard was uneven.
Dunno about CCA, they are typically a more high-end provider.
Bill
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:25 AM
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sorry, i assumed for South Africa ........
I haven't a clue about their East Africa services, although Kichwa is a CCA property that features on your list ......
Sure another fodorite will help you out with this.
Hari
I haven't a clue about their East Africa services, although Kichwa is a CCA property that features on your list ......
Sure another fodorite will help you out with this.
Hari
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:35 AM
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You actually haven't given us quite enough information in this or your other thread to advise.
If I understand correctly, with the Leopard option, you would be flying to the Serengeti where a Leopard vehicle and guide would be meeting you and staying with your throughout until you go back to Arusha/JRO, correct? Your game drives would then be on a private basis.
If you choose the CCA option and fly into the Serengeti, will you be using the Serena vehicles and guides in the Serengeti on a shared basis with other guests or would it be some other arrangement?
You mentioned that you'll be flying into Lake Manyara. I assume this is from the Serengeti and you'll be picked up and transferred from the Manyara airstrip to Ngorongoro. Again, who is picking you up and doing the ground handling for this portion? Will it be a Serena vehicle? Will it be a tour operator vehicle from Arusha which will then stay with you for the remaining duration of your trip? And if the latter, which operator? I could be mistaken, but I don't believe CCA has their own fleet of vehicles outside of the ones at their lodges and camps so they'd probably sub to an Arusha based operator.
Please clarify what vehicles/guides you'll be using and whether it's on a private or shared basis with the CCA option.
Most posters here who have used CCA in Tanzania stay at CCA properties and fly from camp to camp.
If I understand correctly, with the Leopard option, you would be flying to the Serengeti where a Leopard vehicle and guide would be meeting you and staying with your throughout until you go back to Arusha/JRO, correct? Your game drives would then be on a private basis.
If you choose the CCA option and fly into the Serengeti, will you be using the Serena vehicles and guides in the Serengeti on a shared basis with other guests or would it be some other arrangement?
You mentioned that you'll be flying into Lake Manyara. I assume this is from the Serengeti and you'll be picked up and transferred from the Manyara airstrip to Ngorongoro. Again, who is picking you up and doing the ground handling for this portion? Will it be a Serena vehicle? Will it be a tour operator vehicle from Arusha which will then stay with you for the remaining duration of your trip? And if the latter, which operator? I could be mistaken, but I don't believe CCA has their own fleet of vehicles outside of the ones at their lodges and camps so they'd probably sub to an Arusha based operator.
Please clarify what vehicles/guides you'll be using and whether it's on a private or shared basis with the CCA option.
Most posters here who have used CCA in Tanzania stay at CCA properties and fly from camp to camp.
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:38 AM
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Gosh, talk about two opposite ends of the safari food chain. Leopard Tours has over 150 vehicles (as does Ranger Safaris), and they have extremely varying ranges of guide experiences. Makes sense for a large company, as guides need to learn from somewhere. Some guides have been around for a while, and some have not. Just depends. Leopard does not run their own camping business, so if you have a camp on your itinerary it is a camp being operated by somebody else. Leopard prefers booking guests into lodges.
And CC Africa is a company that prefers to control the entire safari experience, so they have their own camps setup for you, as well as a few lodges. Their safaris are more likely to be fly-in, fly-out types of affairs, flying between each lodge or camp.
So Leopard is more value-priced (even though they can do nice lodges), and CC Africa is more upscale. Totally different safari customers, totally different experience, and also different pricing.
YMMV.
My $.02
And CC Africa is a company that prefers to control the entire safari experience, so they have their own camps setup for you, as well as a few lodges. Their safaris are more likely to be fly-in, fly-out types of affairs, flying between each lodge or camp.
So Leopard is more value-priced (even though they can do nice lodges), and CC Africa is more upscale. Totally different safari customers, totally different experience, and also different pricing.
YMMV.
My $.02
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:47 AM
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With CC Africa the safari vehicles will be supplied by the lodges - I am told. We will be in a vehicle which will have 2 other couples for a max of 6 people.
With E&S/Leopard the sarari in Tanzania will be private vehicle for the 2 of us and shared in Kenya (total 6 people)
With E&S/Leopard the sarari in Tanzania will be private vehicle for the 2 of us and shared in Kenya (total 6 people)
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:51 AM
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<b>Bill H - Really interesting comment. Thank you. Gives me food for thought! Would you say CC Africa is more high end than E&S/ Leopard???</b>
Scarlett, if E & S is one of the high volume agencies with a long-term deal with Leopard then you will likely be OK (I don't know if they are or not, but Leopard will for obvious reasons use their best drivers for the high volume customers).
Read Andy Biggs' post carefully, he is in Tanzania several weeks each year and knows the rival companies well, certainly better than I do.
Also, read Patty's post carefully because she brings up the point as to whether or not you'll have one guide for the CCA option or whether you'll be using different guides at each lodge.
In general Leopard is a high volume discount operator and CCA is a company with very high end expensive lodges (like Crater Lodge at Ngorongoro) where you typically share the vehicle/guide at the camp, so it's hard to compare them directly.
Bill
Scarlett, if E & S is one of the high volume agencies with a long-term deal with Leopard then you will likely be OK (I don't know if they are or not, but Leopard will for obvious reasons use their best drivers for the high volume customers).
Read Andy Biggs' post carefully, he is in Tanzania several weeks each year and knows the rival companies well, certainly better than I do.
Also, read Patty's post carefully because she brings up the point as to whether or not you'll have one guide for the CCA option or whether you'll be using different guides at each lodge.
In general Leopard is a high volume discount operator and CCA is a company with very high end expensive lodges (like Crater Lodge at Ngorongoro) where you typically share the vehicle/guide at the camp, so it's hard to compare them directly.
Bill
Oct 30th, 2007, 07:55 AM
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So your question should really be Leopard (private) vs Serena (shared). CCA in this case is just acting as a booking agent.
I don't really have experience with either, but in my discussions with E&S, Serah has mentioned that they have specific Leopard guides who they use, so if you go with them, I'd voice that concern and make sure they choose a good guide for you
I don't really have experience with either, but in my discussions with E&S, Serah has mentioned that they have specific Leopard guides who they use, so if you go with them, I'd voice that concern and make sure they choose a good guide for you
Oct 30th, 2007, 08:19 AM
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What I did originally was asked E &S and a travel agent to mimic the itinerary for the Micato Hemingway Wing Safari. The prices are very close from both of them. Differences are:
E&S offers private vehicle in Tanzania also driving (rather than fly) from Crater to Lake Manyara
Agent is using CCA (Kichwa Tembo) and Serena Lodges elsewhere. No portion has a private vehicle - but there is a flight from the crater to Lake Manyara.
E&S - 3 flights (+ private vehicle in Tanzania)
Agent - 4 flights (no private vehicles)
They are not apples to apples - but I thought the last flight was prob ably equal in $$ to the private vehicle portion in Tanzania.
My initial goal was to do this easily - not having seen any accommodations beforehand (everything looks great online!)I was trying to mimic Micato's safari because they got such raves and I "assumed" they chose good destinations and accomodations. The more I read, the more I realize there is no easy way (other than booking w/Micato, A&K or Tauck at prices that are a bit too high for me). I want a safari that is into game viewing but at 66 I also want creature comforts. I love the idea of a private vehicle so if we want to watch a pride of lions, we can without having to deal with the likes and desires of 4 other people. But, the private vehicles were quoted at $300 a day, and factor the new info I've just read, that the larger companies would favor their largest customers with their best driver guides. From a business point of view, that makes sense to me but I am soooooo confused again.
E&S offers private vehicle in Tanzania also driving (rather than fly) from Crater to Lake Manyara
Agent is using CCA (Kichwa Tembo) and Serena Lodges elsewhere. No portion has a private vehicle - but there is a flight from the crater to Lake Manyara.
E&S - 3 flights (+ private vehicle in Tanzania)
Agent - 4 flights (no private vehicles)
They are not apples to apples - but I thought the last flight was prob ably equal in $$ to the private vehicle portion in Tanzania.
My initial goal was to do this easily - not having seen any accommodations beforehand (everything looks great online!)I was trying to mimic Micato's safari because they got such raves and I "assumed" they chose good destinations and accomodations. The more I read, the more I realize there is no easy way (other than booking w/Micato, A&K or Tauck at prices that are a bit too high for me). I want a safari that is into game viewing but at 66 I also want creature comforts. I love the idea of a private vehicle so if we want to watch a pride of lions, we can without having to deal with the likes and desires of 4 other people. But, the private vehicles were quoted at $300 a day, and factor the new info I've just read, that the larger companies would favor their largest customers with their best driver guides. From a business point of view, that makes sense to me but I am soooooo confused again.
Oct 30th, 2007, 08:33 AM
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Check whether you really have a flight from the Crater to Lake Manyara included. Except for charters, the Lake Manyara airport is usually used for flights for both Lake Manyara and the Crater. The distance between the two is a couple of hours by car on a smooth road (until you get to the Crater!).
Oct 30th, 2007, 08:56 AM
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Are you sure your extra flight with the CCA option is between Ngorongoro and Manyara, not Serengeti and Manyara? The latter would make much more sense as there's a greater distance to cover and as Marija mentioned, there are no scheduled flights from Ngorongoro to Manyara.
Oct 30th, 2007, 09:18 AM
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I know you are set on these two firms but just want to ensure you know your options. We went on Safari to Tanzania and Kenya in September for 14 days; we had a private vehicle the entire trip in both countries and the surcharge for the private safari was $150 pp or $300 total for the trip.
Oct 30th, 2007, 09:35 AM
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The OP is flying on portions of the itinerary, so a private vehicle through the lodge or camp would cost an extra $300 a day or more.
One way to fly and have a private vehicle at less cost might be to use a tour operator vehicle instead of the lodge/camp vehicle. The tour op can send one ahead and meet you at the airstrip and you'll have a different vehicle/guide at each location. This will cost more than using the lodge/camp vehicles/guides on a shared basis but less than paying the private vehicle supplement that lodges/camps charge.
See this thread as an example of the cost difference http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35085899
One way to fly and have a private vehicle at less cost might be to use a tour operator vehicle instead of the lodge/camp vehicle. The tour op can send one ahead and meet you at the airstrip and you'll have a different vehicle/guide at each location. This will cost more than using the lodge/camp vehicles/guides on a shared basis but less than paying the private vehicle supplement that lodges/camps charge.
See this thread as an example of the cost difference http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35085899
Oct 30th, 2007, 09:37 AM
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With the exception of Kichwa Tembo in Kenya as a CCA property that any reputable outfitter can book, you have a Serena properties itinerary.
Since CCA isn't doing much but booking the trip and you'll be using transfers/guides from the individual lodges, I'd go with a private tour using Leopard (the Tanzanian outfitter used by E&S... primarily does Kenya for the KT Mara segment).
I'd choose to go with E&S, but let them know you want Leopard to provide you with a good experienced guide during your time in Tanzania. That being said and if prices are same/close - E&S/Leopard and Agent/CCA, having worked with the agent booking thru CCA as ground operator, then go with this agent... but then this will be shared vehicles.
Believe the flight would be from Serengeti to Manyara with a road transfer from here to Ngorongoro; with Leopard providing the transfer and private touring of the crater. Then back to Arusha.
CCA is generally higher priced for all lodging, whether theirs or others, as that's from what they pay the commission to agents.
Why you should be comparing apples-to-apples.
My 2-cents.
Since CCA isn't doing much but booking the trip and you'll be using transfers/guides from the individual lodges, I'd go with a private tour using Leopard (the Tanzanian outfitter used by E&S... primarily does Kenya for the KT Mara segment).
I'd choose to go with E&S, but let them know you want Leopard to provide you with a good experienced guide during your time in Tanzania. That being said and if prices are same/close - E&S/Leopard and Agent/CCA, having worked with the agent booking thru CCA as ground operator, then go with this agent... but then this will be shared vehicles.
Believe the flight would be from Serengeti to Manyara with a road transfer from here to Ngorongoro; with Leopard providing the transfer and private touring of the crater. Then back to Arusha.
CCA is generally higher priced for all lodging, whether theirs or others, as that's from what they pay the commission to agents.
Why you should be comparing apples-to-apples.
My 2-cents.
Oct 30th, 2007, 09:44 AM
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Marija and Patty,
Thank you for your comments. I double checked and you are correct. There is NO flight from the crater to Lake Manyara. The flight is from the Serengeti to the crater. The problem for me is that the quotes are done in different layouts so it is intensive (and extensive) reading to compare. That makes the Eastern & Southern quote more attractive because it includes the private vehicle in Tanzania. That portion is done by Leopard and so the issue is if Eastern & Southern provides Leopard enough business for Leopard to provide a top notch driver/guide. I will have to ask if the private vehicles are provided by Leopard OR if they are provided by each individual Lodge - in which case I would have different drivers.
Bobcaat - You peaked my interest. Which outfitter did you use?
Thank you for your comments. I double checked and you are correct. There is NO flight from the crater to Lake Manyara. The flight is from the Serengeti to the crater. The problem for me is that the quotes are done in different layouts so it is intensive (and extensive) reading to compare. That makes the Eastern & Southern quote more attractive because it includes the private vehicle in Tanzania. That portion is done by Leopard and so the issue is if Eastern & Southern provides Leopard enough business for Leopard to provide a top notch driver/guide. I will have to ask if the private vehicles are provided by Leopard OR if they are provided by each individual Lodge - in which case I would have different drivers.
Bobcaat - You peaked my interest. Which outfitter did you use?
Oct 30th, 2007, 09:54 AM
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Sandi-
My reply crossed with your email. Thank you - you mentioned the points that I must look at more closely. I am leaning towards E & S because of the private vehicles in Tanzania.
My reply crossed with your email. Thank you - you mentioned the points that I must look at more closely. I am leaning towards E & S because of the private vehicles in Tanzania.
