EASTCO trip
Dec 5th, 2005, 06:41 AM
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EASTCO trip
Hi Alwaysafrica & Gluelace
Thank you for your reassuring response - especially as so few people seem to have travelled with EASTCO. I read your trip diary and am even more excited about our trip. I could do with some advice on what to take with us on this 3 week safari: do we need to take our own mosquito nets with us? If so, do we need 2 singles or a double? I could also do with advice on tipping: when to tip, who, how much, and how often. Security of personal belongings is also something I could do with some reassurance on. By now you will have guessed that this is our first Africa trip (though we did do a walking holiday in Morocco 2 years ago).
Our itinerary goes like this: We will be starting at the Sadaani reserve on the coast (just north of Dar), 3 nights camping on the beach; then on to the Mkomazi Game Reserve, camping at Ibaya for 2 nights. Then we head for Manyara National Park, with 2 nights at Kirurumu Tented Camp.
Next we head for Ngorongoro crater, 2 nights camping at Endolun. After that we spend 4 nights in the lunxury (?) camp at Lake Ndutu, exploring the Serengeti. After that we head for Tarangire and 2 nights at Boundary Hill Lodge. We round off the trip with 2 nights staying with friends in Usangi before leaving from Kilimanjaro Airport. Phew!
Thank you for your reassuring response - especially as so few people seem to have travelled with EASTCO. I read your trip diary and am even more excited about our trip. I could do with some advice on what to take with us on this 3 week safari: do we need to take our own mosquito nets with us? If so, do we need 2 singles or a double? I could also do with advice on tipping: when to tip, who, how much, and how often. Security of personal belongings is also something I could do with some reassurance on. By now you will have guessed that this is our first Africa trip (though we did do a walking holiday in Morocco 2 years ago).
Our itinerary goes like this: We will be starting at the Sadaani reserve on the coast (just north of Dar), 3 nights camping on the beach; then on to the Mkomazi Game Reserve, camping at Ibaya for 2 nights. Then we head for Manyara National Park, with 2 nights at Kirurumu Tented Camp.
Next we head for Ngorongoro crater, 2 nights camping at Endolun. After that we spend 4 nights in the lunxury (?) camp at Lake Ndutu, exploring the Serengeti. After that we head for Tarangire and 2 nights at Boundary Hill Lodge. We round off the trip with 2 nights staying with friends in Usangi before leaving from Kilimanjaro Airport. Phew!
Dec 5th, 2005, 01:52 PM
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Hi utlending!
Your itinerary sounds great (although you'll be hitting several areas that I know nothing about...). I would be happy to answer as many of your questions as I can! I was out of the office today at a conference and so I really need to get caught up in my work, so I hope you don't mind waiting a day or two for my response... I just wanted to let you know that I've read your post and will most definitely be responding!
Sorry, and can you refresh my memory about when you'll be leaving for Tanzania?
Jenn
Your itinerary sounds great (although you'll be hitting several areas that I know nothing about...). I would be happy to answer as many of your questions as I can! I was out of the office today at a conference and so I really need to get caught up in my work, so I hope you don't mind waiting a day or two for my response... I just wanted to let you know that I've read your post and will most definitely be responding!
Sorry, and can you refresh my memory about when you'll be leaving for Tanzania?
Jenn
Dec 5th, 2005, 02:33 PM
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utlending, this is an interesting itinerary!
You asked for some reassurance - I have a few questions/comments, not to alarm you but simply to learn more about your itinerary!
I fully support the idea of supporing local villages but Boundary Hill Lodge is months away from completion (it was scheduled to be completed in early 2003!) - the area around it burned severely about 2 months ago and the lodge suffered some damaged. I visited a few weeks ago and all the plastic piping were melted, plenty of the structures showed signs of damage and the surrounding area is bare and burned. You can see some pics here: http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/BoundaryHill.htm
While I have no doubt EASTCO is working hard to finish the lodge, I am somewhat concerned about fire hazard safety and general quality of workmanship. They had no fire roads before and suffered as a result. It is interesting to read that they are taking bookings anyway...
Endulen is far away from the Ngorongoro crater and the road is slow and curvy. It is not a good alternative to the rim properties. I was there 3 weeks ago. The area is populated and you should not expect much in terms of wildlife. It is normally used as a base for trekking to the nearby hills or Lake Eyasi. Are you trekking?
What is the "luxury" camp at Ndutu? How does that differ from the rest of your camps? 4 nights there are wonderful but risky as the migration could be many miles away making for very long game drives - but if your timing is good you will an experience of a lifetime!
Two nights near Lake Manyara are quite long but I guess you need a rest after the first half of your trip. Normally, Lake Manyara can be covered in a half-day as most of the interesting areas are near the hippo pools just east of the main gate. The hot springs area are green but the hour+ drive down there can be boring.
How big are your tents? EASTCO should provide bugspray and you should spray your tents before you go to dinner. Mossie nets in small green tents are uncomfortable and difficult to control.
Tipping depends on your crew size and whether or not they stay with you the whole time? Do you have guide and a chef? At the lodges things work differently. Porters get $1-2 per bag and there are mostly tip boxes for the rest of the staff.
You asked for some reassurance - I have a few questions/comments, not to alarm you but simply to learn more about your itinerary!
I fully support the idea of supporing local villages but Boundary Hill Lodge is months away from completion (it was scheduled to be completed in early 2003!) - the area around it burned severely about 2 months ago and the lodge suffered some damaged. I visited a few weeks ago and all the plastic piping were melted, plenty of the structures showed signs of damage and the surrounding area is bare and burned. You can see some pics here: http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/BoundaryHill.htm
While I have no doubt EASTCO is working hard to finish the lodge, I am somewhat concerned about fire hazard safety and general quality of workmanship. They had no fire roads before and suffered as a result. It is interesting to read that they are taking bookings anyway...
Endulen is far away from the Ngorongoro crater and the road is slow and curvy. It is not a good alternative to the rim properties. I was there 3 weeks ago. The area is populated and you should not expect much in terms of wildlife. It is normally used as a base for trekking to the nearby hills or Lake Eyasi. Are you trekking?
What is the "luxury" camp at Ndutu? How does that differ from the rest of your camps? 4 nights there are wonderful but risky as the migration could be many miles away making for very long game drives - but if your timing is good you will an experience of a lifetime!
Two nights near Lake Manyara are quite long but I guess you need a rest after the first half of your trip. Normally, Lake Manyara can be covered in a half-day as most of the interesting areas are near the hippo pools just east of the main gate. The hot springs area are green but the hour+ drive down there can be boring.
How big are your tents? EASTCO should provide bugspray and you should spray your tents before you go to dinner. Mossie nets in small green tents are uncomfortable and difficult to control.
Tipping depends on your crew size and whether or not they stay with you the whole time? Do you have guide and a chef? At the lodges things work differently. Porters get $1-2 per bag and there are mostly tip boxes for the rest of the staff.
Dec 6th, 2005, 05:13 AM
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Hi Alwaysafrica and Climbhighsleeplow
Thanks for responding so promptly. Our trip is mid Feb Jenn, so no rush in replying.
I did feel rather deflated on reading your comments Climbhighsleeplow. I have contacted EASTCO and asked them what's happening re BHH. I am starting to think things are going horribly wrong...
Thanks for responding so promptly. Our trip is mid Feb Jenn, so no rush in replying.
I did feel rather deflated on reading your comments Climbhighsleeplow. I have contacted EASTCO and asked them what's happening re BHH. I am starting to think things are going horribly wrong...
Dec 6th, 2005, 11:20 AM
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Don't despair, utlending. I understand you being concerned, but you have plenty of time to deal with these issues. Unfortunately, it sounds like they are still trying to make money off of Boundary Hill, even though it's not in proper form 
Are you dealing with Simon King directly via e-mail? I don't see why accomodations can't be adjusted at this point... we stayed at Naitolia Camp and really enjoyed it (to say the least), we also really enjoyed our stay at the semi-permanent camp in Ndutu, so there are definitely options!
Talk to Simon and see what he says before becoming alarmed.
Please keep us posted.
Are you dealing with Simon King directly via e-mail? I don't see why accomodations can't be adjusted at this point... we stayed at Naitolia Camp and really enjoyed it (to say the least), we also really enjoyed our stay at the semi-permanent camp in Ndutu, so there are definitely options!
Talk to Simon and see what he says before becoming alarmed.
Please keep us posted.
Jan 17th, 2006, 08:40 AM
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Hi Alwaysafrica
I've been too busy to post anything lately. But now it's only 3.5 weeks until we go. Simon has been difficult to get hold of but assures me Boundary Hill Lodge will be fine by the time we get there. Some questions you could answer for me: do we need to take our own mosquito nets or is that adequately catered for? How much should we tip the guide/driver etc and when? How much are we likely to spend on a daily basis given that food etc is included? Do we need to take gifts to give to local children/people? if so, what can you suggest? Would be be able to buy beer for our camping trips or is that not appropriate? Sorry to bombard you with lots of questions, but your experience is invaluable.
Hope to hear from you soon
I've been too busy to post anything lately. But now it's only 3.5 weeks until we go. Simon has been difficult to get hold of but assures me Boundary Hill Lodge will be fine by the time we get there. Some questions you could answer for me: do we need to take our own mosquito nets or is that adequately catered for? How much should we tip the guide/driver etc and when? How much are we likely to spend on a daily basis given that food etc is included? Do we need to take gifts to give to local children/people? if so, what can you suggest? Would be be able to buy beer for our camping trips or is that not appropriate? Sorry to bombard you with lots of questions, but your experience is invaluable.
Hope to hear from you soon
Feb 1st, 2006, 01:49 PM
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Hi utlending, gluelace and alwaysafrica,
I am considering using EASTCO for my upcoming safari in June 06. utlending any feedback from your recent experience dealing with them would be very helpful.
Simon was the fastest to respond to my request ..and also the cheapest and most diverse.. however, I had emailed him yesterday regarding the absence of the company on the TATO website ..and hvn't yet heard back from him.
Also, could you give me some info on how much of the total cost did u pay in advance and how?
Thanks a bunch!
solitaire
I am considering using EASTCO for my upcoming safari in June 06. utlending any feedback from your recent experience dealing with them would be very helpful.
Simon was the fastest to respond to my request ..and also the cheapest and most diverse.. however, I had emailed him yesterday regarding the absence of the company on the TATO website ..and hvn't yet heard back from him.
Also, could you give me some info on how much of the total cost did u pay in advance and how?
Thanks a bunch!
solitaire
Feb 3rd, 2006, 05:24 AM
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Hi Solitaire11
We will be setting off on 12th Feb for our Eastco safari. It often takes a while to get a response as Simon is out travelling a lot. He is in the office today though, so you should hear from him soon. You pay 25% deposit in US$ once you have agreed the trip - best to transfer to the Australian account as the Tanzanian account uses an intermediary bank in the US and my own bank could'nt work that one out. The rest you pay once you get there. To make things easier, I will be transferring the balance to the Aussie account today and will scan and e-mail the receipt. I know that a number of major tour operators use Eastco as their ground support team and are very pleased with them. Earlier in this thread I was concerned about Boundary Hill Lodge as I understand it is not quite complete, so we have transferred to Naitolia eco-lodge instead.I will let you know how it went when we get home in March.
We will be setting off on 12th Feb for our Eastco safari. It often takes a while to get a response as Simon is out travelling a lot. He is in the office today though, so you should hear from him soon. You pay 25% deposit in US$ once you have agreed the trip - best to transfer to the Australian account as the Tanzanian account uses an intermediary bank in the US and my own bank could'nt work that one out. The rest you pay once you get there. To make things easier, I will be transferring the balance to the Aussie account today and will scan and e-mail the receipt. I know that a number of major tour operators use Eastco as their ground support team and are very pleased with them. Earlier in this thread I was concerned about Boundary Hill Lodge as I understand it is not quite complete, so we have transferred to Naitolia eco-lodge instead.I will let you know how it went when we get home in March.
Feb 3rd, 2006, 06:20 AM
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I am not surprised that Boundary Hill is not ready! It is amazing to me how EASTCO has been claiming that it will be ready this month! I've seen it in December...
Naitolia is really far outside Tarangire Park. I did not know that it is an "eco lodge". Amazing!
If your main focus is game viewing the drive to/from Tarangire will get really boring. Naitolia is not an upgrade from Boundary Hill, believe me!
Tarangire Safari Lodge, River Camp and others have much better locations but I guess it depends on what you are looking for!
Naitolia is really far outside Tarangire Park. I did not know that it is an "eco lodge". Amazing!
If your main focus is game viewing the drive to/from Tarangire will get really boring. Naitolia is not an upgrade from Boundary Hill, believe me!
Tarangire Safari Lodge, River Camp and others have much better locations but I guess it depends on what you are looking for!
Feb 3rd, 2006, 12:08 PM
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I had this discussion with Simon about his lodges when I was doing my own research, and one of the selling points he emphasized was that night drives, village visits, and walks are all included in the price of his lodges. I also respected that his lodges appeared to be local community based efforts.
However, the reports about the current conditions of his properties sort of put me off, and the later reports of the fires didn't help any.
However, the reports about the current conditions of his properties sort of put me off, and the later reports of the fires didn't help any.
Feb 3rd, 2006, 05:12 PM
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Indeed, the issue of local village support is an important one!
But in Tanzania when you build a lodge in a concession outside a park, it is normally done on a lease basis with many clauses to help support the local population.
Does one lodge REALLY do more for the local population than its neighbour? Who knows? There is no sure way of telling!
Outside Tarangire, the camps Treetops, Naitolia, Tamarind, Whistling Thorn, Elephant, Kikoti and River Camp all must play by the same basic rules and they all support the local populations in similar ways (through employment, guide services, village visits, wilderness walks, etc.)
From a tourist point of view, you can basically pick one and your money will help the locals!
Since most visitors want to maximize their wildlife viewing, I cannot recommend staying at an ordinary camp an hour and 15min outside the park gate (with tsetses and a really bumpy road).
Night drives at Tarangire are a bit of a bust. There's just too many villages in the area despite the occasional surprise or two. Game walks should really be called nature walks.
Eastco may be their own worst enemy. They don't communicate clearly and openly & their lodges/camps are a mystery to myself and everyone I talk to (especially when compared to the other camps in the vicinity).
It is hard to give them the support they need
But in Tanzania when you build a lodge in a concession outside a park, it is normally done on a lease basis with many clauses to help support the local population.
Does one lodge REALLY do more for the local population than its neighbour? Who knows? There is no sure way of telling!
Outside Tarangire, the camps Treetops, Naitolia, Tamarind, Whistling Thorn, Elephant, Kikoti and River Camp all must play by the same basic rules and they all support the local populations in similar ways (through employment, guide services, village visits, wilderness walks, etc.)
From a tourist point of view, you can basically pick one and your money will help the locals!
Since most visitors want to maximize their wildlife viewing, I cannot recommend staying at an ordinary camp an hour and 15min outside the park gate (with tsetses and a really bumpy road).
Night drives at Tarangire are a bit of a bust. There's just too many villages in the area despite the occasional surprise or two. Game walks should really be called nature walks.
Eastco may be their own worst enemy. They don't communicate clearly and openly & their lodges/camps are a mystery to myself and everyone I talk to (especially when compared to the other camps in the vicinity).
It is hard to give them the support they need
Feb 4th, 2006, 03:01 AM
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Hi climbhighsleeplow
I'm really surprised by your message. It sounds as if you have a vendetta against Naitolia and Boundary Hill.
You cannot compare these two lodges with other lodges in the Tarangire area as far as community involvement.
Boundary Hill Lodge is owned 50% by Lolkisale Village. Naitolia pays concession fees to three local villages, Makuyuni, Naitolia and Mswakini. Tarangire Treetops has a concession only from Boundary Hill Lodge to operate in that area.
The entire Tarangire Conservation Area was established by Simon and his brother Hartley over 8 years ago. They may be very quiet about what they do there, but their achievements have been recognised by those who know. If anything they do themselves a disservice by not advertising the fact of how much they have achieved in the Tarangire area with regards to community conservation. Unlike other operators such as Olivers, who have given up and moved to easier areas such as in the park, because of their inability to deal with villagers, their projects in the Tarangire Conservation Area (160,000 acres in size) have changed the face of community conservation in Tarangire, truly quiet achievers! and allowed other lodge owners such as Treetops (for whom Hartley negotiated the village agreements) and Kikoti to develop outside the park.
NO other lodge in the Tarangire area has village involvement such as these two lodges.
I stayed at Naitolia late last year it is still one of the best experiences around. It is not surrounded by villages, and on night drives AND game walks there are elephants, impala and sometimes kudu, smaller game as well as resident leopard and visiting lions. The only lights that are visible from the Camp are those of Tarangire Treetops 15 kms away. Naitolia is mainly used for the company's own clients, which is why you may not know much about it!
I am not sure about Boundary Hill since the fire, but I have seen photos of some of the rooms and the dining area from earlier this year, and they certainly look as if they are ready for clients!!
I know all of this because I have been following the project since its early days and monitoring not only the development of the communities but also the Tarangire Conservation Area. I am really interested in the real involvement and ownership by the local communities in tourism in Tanzania and believe EASTCO is one of the few safari companies who do this.
I'm really surprised by your message. It sounds as if you have a vendetta against Naitolia and Boundary Hill.
You cannot compare these two lodges with other lodges in the Tarangire area as far as community involvement.
Boundary Hill Lodge is owned 50% by Lolkisale Village. Naitolia pays concession fees to three local villages, Makuyuni, Naitolia and Mswakini. Tarangire Treetops has a concession only from Boundary Hill Lodge to operate in that area.
The entire Tarangire Conservation Area was established by Simon and his brother Hartley over 8 years ago. They may be very quiet about what they do there, but their achievements have been recognised by those who know. If anything they do themselves a disservice by not advertising the fact of how much they have achieved in the Tarangire area with regards to community conservation. Unlike other operators such as Olivers, who have given up and moved to easier areas such as in the park, because of their inability to deal with villagers, their projects in the Tarangire Conservation Area (160,000 acres in size) have changed the face of community conservation in Tarangire, truly quiet achievers! and allowed other lodge owners such as Treetops (for whom Hartley negotiated the village agreements) and Kikoti to develop outside the park.
NO other lodge in the Tarangire area has village involvement such as these two lodges.
I stayed at Naitolia late last year it is still one of the best experiences around. It is not surrounded by villages, and on night drives AND game walks there are elephants, impala and sometimes kudu, smaller game as well as resident leopard and visiting lions. The only lights that are visible from the Camp are those of Tarangire Treetops 15 kms away. Naitolia is mainly used for the company's own clients, which is why you may not know much about it!
I am not sure about Boundary Hill since the fire, but I have seen photos of some of the rooms and the dining area from earlier this year, and they certainly look as if they are ready for clients!!
I know all of this because I have been following the project since its early days and monitoring not only the development of the communities but also the Tarangire Conservation Area. I am really interested in the real involvement and ownership by the local communities in tourism in Tanzania and believe EASTCO is one of the few safari companies who do this.
Feb 4th, 2006, 04:42 AM
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Hi Malpa
Welcome to the Fodors board! It is especially nice to hear from someone who knows the inside story about the greater Tarangire area! You certainly know more about the history than I do so your insight is most welcome!
To set the record straight, this discussion (together with a similar thread) started with an itinerary that included Boundary Hill lodge. I really like the location (and views) and have visited the lodge 3 times in the last year because I wanted to be the first to stay there! The lodge was under very slow construction during all my visits (as recently as December). I noticed early on that several crucial design features were still missing such as fire roads and my fears came true during the fire in 2005.
I told the potential clients on this board in 2005 that the lodge is not ready! Despite apparent assurances by Simon the lodge is still not ready!
IMO there is a huge difference between Boundary Hill (a luxury design with great views very near the park gate)and Naitolia (a bush camp with basic facilities and 75min outside the park on a bad road). Some clients may not care about this, others may - I am merely pointing out the facts for the consideration of these clients. Staying inside vs. outside Tarangire can really affect one's safari experience. Outside is not always better!
So there is no vendetta against the safari operator Eastco.
I merely think Simon should update his web sites and provide factual information about the status of his camps/lodges Naitolia, Boundary Hill and Sidai. This is not too much to ask! For example the website currently states that Boundary Hill will open in 2002! This is misleading as the lodge has never been completely constructed!
Why is everything so secretive? Myself and many on this board will strongly support his efforts but he needs to do his part as well! The local villages (most certainly with high hopes) deserve better.
As a frequent visitor to Tarangire I stand by my opinion that night drives and walks outside Tarangire are not all they are hyped up to be! A first-time visitor to Tarangire on a 2-night safari will generally be happier with a lodge/camp inside the park unless cultural activities feature higher than wildlife viewing on his/her agenda.
Welcome to the Fodors board! It is especially nice to hear from someone who knows the inside story about the greater Tarangire area! You certainly know more about the history than I do so your insight is most welcome!
To set the record straight, this discussion (together with a similar thread) started with an itinerary that included Boundary Hill lodge. I really like the location (and views) and have visited the lodge 3 times in the last year because I wanted to be the first to stay there! The lodge was under very slow construction during all my visits (as recently as December). I noticed early on that several crucial design features were still missing such as fire roads and my fears came true during the fire in 2005.
I told the potential clients on this board in 2005 that the lodge is not ready! Despite apparent assurances by Simon the lodge is still not ready!
IMO there is a huge difference between Boundary Hill (a luxury design with great views very near the park gate)and Naitolia (a bush camp with basic facilities and 75min outside the park on a bad road). Some clients may not care about this, others may - I am merely pointing out the facts for the consideration of these clients. Staying inside vs. outside Tarangire can really affect one's safari experience. Outside is not always better!
So there is no vendetta against the safari operator Eastco.
I merely think Simon should update his web sites and provide factual information about the status of his camps/lodges Naitolia, Boundary Hill and Sidai. This is not too much to ask! For example the website currently states that Boundary Hill will open in 2002! This is misleading as the lodge has never been completely constructed!
Why is everything so secretive? Myself and many on this board will strongly support his efforts but he needs to do his part as well! The local villages (most certainly with high hopes) deserve better.
As a frequent visitor to Tarangire I stand by my opinion that night drives and walks outside Tarangire are not all they are hyped up to be! A first-time visitor to Tarangire on a 2-night safari will generally be happier with a lodge/camp inside the park unless cultural activities feature higher than wildlife viewing on his/her agenda.
Feb 4th, 2006, 07:45 AM
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Hi Utlending,
Looking forward for your trip report in March. And you were right .. I did hear back from him yesterday!
I have almost settled on EastCo for my trip (yes! ..inspite of the conflicting comments on this thread and after serious consideration of a few other operators) I will be spending two days in Tarangire and at Naitolia too.
Somehow, I have this instinctive feeling ..that it will be okay!! Malpa's comments sound very encouraging.
Looking forward for your trip report in March. And you were right .. I did hear back from him yesterday!
I have almost settled on EastCo for my trip (yes! ..inspite of the conflicting comments on this thread and after serious consideration of a few other operators) I will be spending two days in Tarangire and at Naitolia too.
Somehow, I have this instinctive feeling ..that it will be okay!! Malpa's comments sound very encouraging.
Mar 30th, 2006, 06:33 AM
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Hi Solitaire11
We had a fantastic trip! I can recommend EASTCO - our driver/guide was excellent, we had a great itinerery and saw everything we wanted to see - despite the drought! We went to Boundary Hill Lodge in Tarangire in the end and loved it! What a stunning place to stay. More details on the trip once I have had time to catch up on my work. I'm already dreaming about the next trip (with EASTCO).
We had a fantastic trip! I can recommend EASTCO - our driver/guide was excellent, we had a great itinerery and saw everything we wanted to see - despite the drought! We went to Boundary Hill Lodge in Tarangire in the end and loved it! What a stunning place to stay. More details on the trip once I have had time to catch up on my work. I'm already dreaming about the next trip (with EASTCO).
Apr 8th, 2006, 07:15 PM
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Hi Utlending!
Welcome back! Can't wait to read your trip report! Our trip is scheduled for next month end with EastCo. Good to hear that they met your expectations. Who was your guide? Maybe we could request for the same person. Let us know!
Welcome back! Can't wait to read your trip report! Our trip is scheduled for next month end with EastCo. Good to hear that they met your expectations. Who was your guide? Maybe we could request for the same person. Let us know!
