Destination Tanzania - First Safari - Advice on Tradeoffs
Apr 10th, 2006, 07:36 PM
#21
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Long day at work and enjoyed reading the continuing discussion.
climbhighsleeplow:
Probably going to stick with Kigongoni based on feedback from the board and then will likely plan a drive to Arusha NP or just hope to see Kili first thing in the morning. And a little torn still on decision of where to stay in Serengeti for 2 nights before proceeding to central region, however the larger lodges are less appealing to me (like serena or sopa). As for mobile camps, think it's not the first choice - given the little bit of fear of the animals. It's really just a perception - and more likely the bathroom is ensuite - just in case want to use restroom after dark. Been advised Ndutu area has good resident game and would be possible to enter Serengeti NP for trip to Gol kopjes, etc. It's a tough call and sounds like can't count on where the migration will be. Hoping to see the wildebeast between Ndutu region and driving enroute (game drive) to Mbuzi Mawe. Just not too many options for accommodations in that Ndutu / Naabi Hill area. Great maps - thank you.
bat:
The Mahale sequence looking at think has a stop through Katavi so it might be the Nomad-Tanganyika flights. And Mon/Thurs have been the proposed flight options. Focused on a 4 night stay right now - partly to defray the cost of the flights.
As for the TanganyikaSwiss Hotels itinerary in July to mid-October, the prices look great! For me it's not going to fit into a timeframe I'm able to manage with my work schedule. The rates are reasonable. Actually might be a good option for atravelynn to save on the high season mark-ups. Flights I've been quoted are approx $1000 RT pp - which may be due to a high season mark-up. Either way - it's a costly option to include. Still.... I want to go!
Will keep checking back in.
LovetoDiscover
climbhighsleeplow:
Probably going to stick with Kigongoni based on feedback from the board and then will likely plan a drive to Arusha NP or just hope to see Kili first thing in the morning. And a little torn still on decision of where to stay in Serengeti for 2 nights before proceeding to central region, however the larger lodges are less appealing to me (like serena or sopa). As for mobile camps, think it's not the first choice - given the little bit of fear of the animals. It's really just a perception - and more likely the bathroom is ensuite - just in case want to use restroom after dark. Been advised Ndutu area has good resident game and would be possible to enter Serengeti NP for trip to Gol kopjes, etc. It's a tough call and sounds like can't count on where the migration will be. Hoping to see the wildebeast between Ndutu region and driving enroute (game drive) to Mbuzi Mawe. Just not too many options for accommodations in that Ndutu / Naabi Hill area. Great maps - thank you.
bat:
The Mahale sequence looking at think has a stop through Katavi so it might be the Nomad-Tanganyika flights. And Mon/Thurs have been the proposed flight options. Focused on a 4 night stay right now - partly to defray the cost of the flights.
As for the TanganyikaSwiss Hotels itinerary in July to mid-October, the prices look great! For me it's not going to fit into a timeframe I'm able to manage with my work schedule. The rates are reasonable. Actually might be a good option for atravelynn to save on the high season mark-ups. Flights I've been quoted are approx $1000 RT pp - which may be due to a high season mark-up. Either way - it's a costly option to include. Still.... I want to go!
Will keep checking back in.
LovetoDiscover
Apr 10th, 2006, 07:52 PM
#22
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Yeah, one never knows what's going to happen with the migration. I was at Ndutu, Gol and Seronera in late Dec, early Jan 2006 and there was absolutely nothing to be seen on the plains and only a few residents milling around Ndutu in the incredible dust!
We can only hope for solid rains this coming November!
Good luck to you!
We can only hope for solid rains this coming November!
Good luck to you!
Apr 11th, 2006, 08:22 AM
#23
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lovetodiscover:
It is not really a high season issue so much as different camps--The flycatcher camps are different camps than the Nomad camps. The Nomad price in June is not less than in Dec.
lynn, you are following this saga--the latest info is that the travel agent who said you could travel in either direction may be incorrect (or outdated)--at least as to the shared charter. The flight sequence is Katavi first and then Mahale --so as lovetodiscover indicated--a trip only to Mahale will have a flight stop in Katavi.
It is not really a high season issue so much as different camps--The flycatcher camps are different camps than the Nomad camps. The Nomad price in June is not less than in Dec.
lynn, you are following this saga--the latest info is that the travel agent who said you could travel in either direction may be incorrect (or outdated)--at least as to the shared charter. The flight sequence is Katavi first and then Mahale --so as lovetodiscover indicated--a trip only to Mahale will have a flight stop in Katavi.
Apr 11th, 2006, 03:22 PM
#24
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Yes, I am following. But by the time I will be making plans, the schedules will likely change many times. Glad to see the interest in thes areas, as interest translates into more scheduled transportation.
Apr 13th, 2006, 03:56 AM
#25
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Worked on the itinerary and got feedback on accommodation availability late Dec early Jan 07. One's with issues are mentioned below.
Given the choice would you choose:
a) Ngorongoro Sopa or Serena - and why? I'm leaning toward Serena (smaller), but they do not have availability on night needed.
b) Tarangire - Swala is booked one of the 2 nights planned in Tarangire, so considering Oliver's camp as an alternate. Is Oliver's a good 2nd choice end of December? Swala will remain on waitlist to see if the extra night opens up.
c) Last night, considering the recommendation to fly out of Dar Es Salaam returning from Mahale instead of staying night in Arusha (relax and fly next night). How taxing is jet lag without extra night of rest(anyone travelled by flight same day to Arusha and outbound to USA)?
Revised itinerary:
Drive / Fly -Private Safari – Land Cruiser
Arusha (1 night): Kigongoni Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Tarangire: Swala Camp (waitlist); Oliver's Alternate
Safari (1 night): Lake Manyara: Gibb’s Farm
Safari (1 night): Ngorongoro: Sopa Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti South: Ndutu Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti Central: Mbuzi Mawe Camp
Fly: Serengeti to Mahale Mountain NP
Safari (4 nights): Mahale: Greystoke
Fly: Mahale to Arusha
(1 night) Arusha: Kigongoni Lodge
OR
Fly: Mahale - Arusha - USA directly
OR
Fly: Mahale - Dar Es Salaam - USA directly
Thanks, in advance.
Regards,
LovetoDiscover
Given the choice would you choose:
a) Ngorongoro Sopa or Serena - and why? I'm leaning toward Serena (smaller), but they do not have availability on night needed.
b) Tarangire - Swala is booked one of the 2 nights planned in Tarangire, so considering Oliver's camp as an alternate. Is Oliver's a good 2nd choice end of December? Swala will remain on waitlist to see if the extra night opens up.
c) Last night, considering the recommendation to fly out of Dar Es Salaam returning from Mahale instead of staying night in Arusha (relax and fly next night). How taxing is jet lag without extra night of rest(anyone travelled by flight same day to Arusha and outbound to USA)?
Revised itinerary:
Drive / Fly -Private Safari – Land Cruiser
Arusha (1 night): Kigongoni Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Tarangire: Swala Camp (waitlist); Oliver's Alternate
Safari (1 night): Lake Manyara: Gibb’s Farm
Safari (1 night): Ngorongoro: Sopa Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti South: Ndutu Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti Central: Mbuzi Mawe Camp
Fly: Serengeti to Mahale Mountain NP
Safari (4 nights): Mahale: Greystoke
Fly: Mahale to Arusha
(1 night) Arusha: Kigongoni Lodge
OR
Fly: Mahale - Arusha - USA directly
OR
Fly: Mahale - Dar Es Salaam - USA directly
Thanks, in advance.
Regards,
LovetoDiscover
Apr 13th, 2006, 04:44 AM
#26
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The flights I know from Mahale (if staying at Greystoke) arrives in Ausha around 6:30pm on average!
It will take another 90 minutes to Kilimanjaro airport by road. 8pm?
You could make the 9:45pm KLM flight that night but I think it will be a stressful afternoon!
It will take another 90 minutes to Kilimanjaro airport by road. 8pm?
You could make the 9:45pm KLM flight that night but I think it will be a stressful afternoon!
Apr 13th, 2006, 04:48 AM
#27
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As long as you're covered with Oliver's at Tarangire, if space opens for the day of Swala then you have Swala. You are traveling over the holidays, so space is where it is/or not.
With only 1-night at the Crater, doesn't make much different whether you stay at the Sopa or Serena; the Sopa does have a pool if that is of interest. And December is going into Summer in TNZ, so the pool may be a bonus.
Besides the fact that I'm depressed knowing that I'm leaving Africa; once I know that I am, I want to just do it. All that much sooner to start planning a return trip.
Unless you have something special you want to do/see in Arusha, if you have a flight out of DAR, go for DAR. You have to decide this for yourself.
With only 1-night at the Crater, doesn't make much different whether you stay at the Sopa or Serena; the Sopa does have a pool if that is of interest. And December is going into Summer in TNZ, so the pool may be a bonus.
Besides the fact that I'm depressed knowing that I'm leaving Africa; once I know that I am, I want to just do it. All that much sooner to start planning a return trip.
Unless you have something special you want to do/see in Arusha, if you have a flight out of DAR, go for DAR. You have to decide this for yourself.
Apr 13th, 2006, 04:52 AM
#28
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I wanted to add that Tarangire is good in Dec/Jan and that Olivers is a good alternative to Swala.
Have you considered staying 3 nights at Olivers and do a walk/fly camp on day 2? These walks are very good!
To make this work, I would certainly consider giving up the night at Gibbs and do Manyara as a 3-hour diversion on the way to Ngorongoro. Gibbs is not that special for an overnight - you can have lunch there on the way to Ngorongoro because the food is good!
Another excellent option is to use Nomad's new Tarangire Camp when choosing good accommodations in Tarangire!
Have you considered staying 3 nights at Olivers and do a walk/fly camp on day 2? These walks are very good!
To make this work, I would certainly consider giving up the night at Gibbs and do Manyara as a 3-hour diversion on the way to Ngorongoro. Gibbs is not that special for an overnight - you can have lunch there on the way to Ngorongoro because the food is good!
Another excellent option is to use Nomad's new Tarangire Camp when choosing good accommodations in Tarangire!
Apr 13th, 2006, 05:07 AM
#29
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Thanks - does sounds like a flight same day out of Arusha would be calling it close and you've got the flight schedules I'm looking at as well.
Very tempting to try the adventurous fly camp option and walk safar. May need to get the butterflies out first with a little, lingering fear of being hunted
. Reason Gibb's was included was to break a full-day of driving between parks including game drives. Proposed itinerary first had as long as 8-12 hours of driving (w/game drives). Will look into the option. This whole experience is growing on me and not sure how will be able to wait until December for the trip!
What do you think difference in pricing to Nomad's Tarangire would be to Swala? Oliver's option is $100pp / day less than Swala.
Very tempting to try the adventurous fly camp option and walk safar. May need to get the butterflies out first with a little, lingering fear of being hunted
. Reason Gibb's was included was to break a full-day of driving between parks including game drives. Proposed itinerary first had as long as 8-12 hours of driving (w/game drives). Will look into the option. This whole experience is growing on me and not sure how will be able to wait until December for the trip! What do you think difference in pricing to Nomad's Tarangire would be to Swala? Oliver's option is $100pp / day less than Swala.
Apr 13th, 2006, 05:48 AM
#30
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Tarangire to Ngorongoro is a very pleasant drive. No need to overnight at Gibbs! You will need to depart Tarangire any way before 11am (assuming you arrive around 11am) as your outfitter will probably not include an extra day of park fees for your final day!
If you compare the Swala Game Package rate $405pp + park fees, and Nomad Game Packages + park fees, Nomad is about $80 pp more expensive depending on your outfitter. But with only 4 tents!
http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/Swala.htm and
http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/Nomadtar.htm
If you compare the Swala Game Package rate $405pp + park fees, and Nomad Game Packages + park fees, Nomad is about $80 pp more expensive depending on your outfitter. But with only 4 tents!
http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/Swala.htm and
http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/Nomadtar.htm
Apr 13th, 2006, 06:03 AM
#31
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lovetodiscover:
The itinerary is shaping up very nicely.
Ask what time the Mahale flight arrives in Arusha. A proposed itinerary just given to me shows a Mahale departure of 13:20 which if correct would get you in around 5:20 pm--enough time to catch the KLM flight. But even so, as Eben points out you might feel worried about making the connection and things might happen to delay the flight.
As for Dar vs Arusha, the Mahale flight is, I believe, about 4 hours in a small plane. Personally I would not want to get on another plane and then fly to Dar that night unless there was some compelling reason to do so.
If you decide to spend the night consider where would you rather spend the next day--Dar or Arusha?
I lean toward Arusha. You will have choices of things to do the next day--a school visit, shopping, perhaps the UN Tribunal, for example. You could even squeeze in more safari at Arusha NP if you really wanted to.
Others may argue for Dar--of course, you can do shopping there and some hotels are on the water.
Perhaps another factor to consider is this: You have to fly to Dar in either event--would you rather be on a small plane the night before or the KLM jet the night of departure?
As sandi said, it is a personal decision.
The itinerary is shaping up very nicely.
Ask what time the Mahale flight arrives in Arusha. A proposed itinerary just given to me shows a Mahale departure of 13:20 which if correct would get you in around 5:20 pm--enough time to catch the KLM flight. But even so, as Eben points out you might feel worried about making the connection and things might happen to delay the flight.
As for Dar vs Arusha, the Mahale flight is, I believe, about 4 hours in a small plane. Personally I would not want to get on another plane and then fly to Dar that night unless there was some compelling reason to do so.
If you decide to spend the night consider where would you rather spend the next day--Dar or Arusha?
I lean toward Arusha. You will have choices of things to do the next day--a school visit, shopping, perhaps the UN Tribunal, for example. You could even squeeze in more safari at Arusha NP if you really wanted to.
Others may argue for Dar--of course, you can do shopping there and some hotels are on the water.
Perhaps another factor to consider is this: You have to fly to Dar in either event--would you rather be on a small plane the night before or the KLM jet the night of departure?
As sandi said, it is a personal decision.
Apr 13th, 2006, 06:46 AM
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Does Nomad only offer a game package rate?
I'm guessing that lovetodiscover's quote for Swala is based on their full board rate of $305pp with the tour operator providing game drives in their vehicle. That would make the upgrade to Nomad more like $180pp assuming that Nomad only sells package rates, right?
I'm guessing that lovetodiscover's quote for Swala is based on their full board rate of $305pp with the tour operator providing game drives in their vehicle. That would make the upgrade to Nomad more like $180pp assuming that Nomad only sells package rates, right?
Apr 13th, 2006, 06:55 AM
#36
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Hi Patty
But one has to add the driver+car costs for the two days at Swala anyway. This will be at least $200 per day (for two) or more depending on her oufitter. But yes, Nomad is more expensive as it should be.
But one has to add the driver+car costs for the two days at Swala anyway. This will be at least $200 per day (for two) or more depending on her oufitter. But yes, Nomad is more expensive as it should be.
Apr 13th, 2006, 07:19 AM
#37
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eben:
Do you know if Nomad has min. nights requirement? I thought that it might be 3 (although they let you stay 2 nights at one camp in combination with a stay at another--i.e. serengeti/loliondo).
Patty:
I was wondering how it would work also. You do not want to pay for your guide and vehicle from your ground operator for the two days at Nomad when you would be using their guide and vehicle. If it was at the beginning or end of a trip I suppose you can arrange a switch (that is what we and rocco did at the end of our trips; and what Leely will be doing).
lovetodiscover could probably have Nomad take her to Tarangire and then meet the other guide and vehicle somewhere between there and Manyara.
I would like to know what it costs to have a Nomad guide/vehicle with you for your whole trip (i.e. cost of the driver/vehicle that would be aded to the accoms cost). Before our trip I did not realize that they do that but our guide said yes and there were clients who were accommapanied at Lake Manyara Tree Lodge and then Crater Lodge before going to a Nomad camp.
Do you know if Nomad has min. nights requirement? I thought that it might be 3 (although they let you stay 2 nights at one camp in combination with a stay at another--i.e. serengeti/loliondo).
Patty:
I was wondering how it would work also. You do not want to pay for your guide and vehicle from your ground operator for the two days at Nomad when you would be using their guide and vehicle. If it was at the beginning or end of a trip I suppose you can arrange a switch (that is what we and rocco did at the end of our trips; and what Leely will be doing).
lovetodiscover could probably have Nomad take her to Tarangire and then meet the other guide and vehicle somewhere between there and Manyara.
I would like to know what it costs to have a Nomad guide/vehicle with you for your whole trip (i.e. cost of the driver/vehicle that would be aded to the accoms cost). Before our trip I did not realize that they do that but our guide said yes and there were clients who were accommapanied at Lake Manyara Tree Lodge and then Crater Lodge before going to a Nomad camp.
Apr 13th, 2006, 07:33 AM
#38
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Hi bat
I would love to give you the Nomad rates for their lodge safaris but this is completely up to each agent's profit margins.
I use Nomad a lot for our own trips in exactly this way. And CCA by the way, and a few others who own lodges/camps.
This kind of information is readily available when you deal with in-country outfitters so I am surprised that you were not given the Nomad ground option when you booked!
I would love to give you the Nomad rates for their lodge safaris but this is completely up to each agent's profit margins.
I use Nomad a lot for our own trips in exactly this way. And CCA by the way, and a few others who own lodges/camps.
This kind of information is readily available when you deal with in-country outfitters so I am surprised that you were not given the Nomad ground option when you booked!
Apr 13th, 2006, 09:37 AM
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I didn't realize that Nomad could act as a ground operator and also provide point to point transportation . I was under the impression that they just guided at their own camps which is why I assumed earlier that lovetodiscover would be paying for two vehicles and guides (one from tour op and one from Nomad) if staying at the Nomad camp in Tarangire. I see what you're saying now.
I'm currently dealing with the same issue for my Kenya itinerary. We want to stay at Elsa's Kopje in Meru and they only offer package rates. I originally had it in the middle of my itinerary which meant that we'd be paying for our tour op's vehicle and guide for those days (which I'm OK with), but now I'm thinking we may fly up to Meru first and have our guide pick us up at the end of our stay at Elsa's. I don't think we'd actually save any money overall with this latter option as I believe our guide would need to drive up to Meru one day ahead of our departure (it's 6 hours from Nairobi) and any savings would also be offset by the cost of the flight, but it would cut down on some driving.
I'm currently dealing with the same issue for my Kenya itinerary. We want to stay at Elsa's Kopje in Meru and they only offer package rates. I originally had it in the middle of my itinerary which meant that we'd be paying for our tour op's vehicle and guide for those days (which I'm OK with), but now I'm thinking we may fly up to Meru first and have our guide pick us up at the end of our stay at Elsa's. I don't think we'd actually save any money overall with this latter option as I believe our guide would need to drive up to Meru one day ahead of our departure (it's 6 hours from Nairobi) and any savings would also be offset by the cost of the flight, but it would cut down on some driving.
