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Destination Tanzania - First Safari - Advice on Tradeoffs

Destination Tanzania - First Safari - Advice on Tradeoffs

Old Apr 9th, 2006, 07:52 AM
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Destination Tanzania - First Safari - Advice on Tradeoffs

Planning our first safari for late December to January and seeking advice. This site has been a great resource already and finding the recommendations helpful.

Trade – Offs and Questions
• Flying or Drive/Fly Combo Safari – benefits and drawbacks?
o Flying Safari: Shared Lodge/Camp vehicles (Flying Safari)
o Drive/Fly Combo- driving between parks with flights between longer legs, e.g. Serengeti to Arusha)
o Will we miss something by not driving?
o How often do the flights between parks get cancelled?
• View of Mt. Kilimanjaro a bonus:
o If Amboseli added onto Tanzanian Northern Circuit, do you recommend driving across Namanga border or driving to Nairobi and taking a flight to Tanzania? Heard there may be delays at the border crossing.
o Is Amboseli worth adding onto Tanzanian safari for view of Mt. Kilimanjaro and elephants? Pictures I’ve seen look fabulous.
o As an alternate to Amboseli, considering adding day trip to Arusha National Park. Anyone been to Arusha NP and seen Mt. Kilimanjaro?
• Arusha accommodations advice/recomendations: Kigongoni Lodge, Moivaro or Mountain Village Lodges?
• Serengeti : Does Kusini Camp, Serengeti Sopa Lodge or Ndutu area offer better opportunity to see the migration/herds in late December?
• And, for grins (and to alleviate some fears), has anyone ever heard of someone being attacked by wild animal, while on safari, in their tent?
• Mahale Mountain National Park – 3 or 4 day visit recommended? Has anyone traveled to Mahale?

Look forward to your comments.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 08:20 AM
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You can enjoy game viewing plus views of Kili on the Tanzanian side in the West Kilimanjaro area. See Eben's slideshow in this thread - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=34644698

Look into Kambi ya Tembo or Ndarakwai Ranch. There's also West Kilimanjaro camp operated by Kirurumu.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 08:47 AM
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Fly-drive: Driving is usually cheaper and you can more easily have your own private guide/vehicle throughout the trip. Flying saves time and I feel a little safer in the planes than on the roads, but that is a very minor personal point.

Flying Safari--You are going to be sharing the lodge and camp whether you drive or fly. Your schedule has to accommodate the flights, unless you have a private charter, which is not usually the case. In my experience the flight schedules have been adequate.

Drive/Fly combo--an ideal solution. Flying where it makes most sense, driving where it makes most sense.


Missing something while flying--You do not miss much while driving because you are on regular roads not in national parks. There are interesting people and cultural scenes along the highways, but if you do a little driving you can see that. You can also visit villages as part of your itinerary.

Cancelled flights--I've not heard of it in Tanzania, but others may have more information. Now Air Botswana is a different story. My East Africa flights have very often been delayed, but not enough to impact the safari.

Mt. Kili--If you are lucky that is a bonus. You may be able to book a special flightseeing Kili trip. I never tried.

How to get to Amboseli--I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable.

Worth adding Amboseli--If you have time and money, yes. To best answer that question, we would have to know the tradeoffs for Amboseli and see the whole itinerary. Amboseli was not part of my 1st Kenya/Tanzania trip to Africa. For my second trip, I had to fly in and out of Nairobi en route to Uganda and I made it a point to add Amboseli.

Kili is most visible in the morning and late afternoon. As for that perfect photo of animals in the foreground, Kili in the background, who knows? If it is a hope of that shot that is sending you to Amboseli, you may be disappointed. But I enjoyed the stay at Tortilis Camp and had good am and pm views of the mountain.

Arusha-I've visited and eaten at Mountain Village Lodge twice and it was very nice in a pretty location. Never stayed at any of these.

Serengeti--In late Dec, you are correct to try for South. Which camp is best left to those who have traveled at that time of year. The East Africa thread will be a help on that. There are mobile camps too, such as Nomads, that set up in the best location for the migration at the time.

Grins--An important question to make you comfortable on safari. In a vehicle based safari, I've never heard of an attack. Do an Internet search and I'm sure you'll come up with the same conclusion. Same for an attack in a tent. The only one I am aware of is a camp staff member who was sleeping with his feet hanging outside his pup tent in Zimbabwe. When a lioness took a nibble he left his tent and ran away, but not far.

Mahale--Now I am jealous. There is currently a Southern Circuit thread with
Mahale as a 3 day stop. Put Mahale in the search box and you'll get some more info. I'd do 4 nights, especially if that is the only southern destination you are doing. It defrays the cost of the transportation to get there.

Please post again on this thread as your trip develops. After Tanzania, you may find that you love to discover many parts of Africa.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 09:05 AM
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Do you have an outline of your planned itinerary? It is easier to comment on the flight vs. drive options when looking at a bigger picture!

Internal flights are reliable.

Arusha accommodations depend on what you're looking for and where you are traveling to/from! For walking around town the Arusha Hotel is best. For great food, proximity to Arusha Airport and a bit of pampering the Arusha Coffee Lodge is a better. Mountain Village is very nice if you want to stay towards Kilimanjaro Airport but outside town. Kia Lodge is good right next to Kilimanjaro Airport.

Scheduled flights to/from Mahale and Arusha operate on Mondays and Tuesdays. 3 night stay is the minimum on a shared scheduled charter.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 09:08 AM
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Sorry

Scheduled Mahale/Katavi charters operate on Mondays and THURSDAYS!
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 09:29 AM
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For the nothern circuit it is easy to drive in and fly out--or vice versa.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 10:10 AM
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Ive been to kigongoni lodge and did one day Arusha NP as well...
The lodge is great, and you can do a nice walk from there.

Arusha NP was nice, especially the canoeing on Small Momella Lake.

See also my trip report:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=34784464
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 11:46 AM
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climbhighsleeplow,

With the scheduled flights you listed, it looks like either 3 nights in Mahale or 6+. No 4 or 5 night options, which I think would be ideal.

Go2Africa put together an itinerary that had 4 nights in Mahale, then on to Katavi, but that was probably with a group charter through them.

I did not take this trip. I was just checking this potential itinerary out and getting to know Go2Africa better.

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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 12:07 PM
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Lovetodiscover

At the risk of completely hogging this thread, here are two animal safety links:

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...4&tid=34736396
The above post was initiated by ctheworld and I actually met the two lovely well-traveled ladies who are ctheworld and posed this question! We met in Botswana and shared a vehicle.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=34768016
Here's another one.


Just don't go to Rocco's recent trip report with lions practically taking over camp in the Serengeti! But the good news is the lions stayed outside, the people were safe inside, and such a situation was handled as routine by the camp staff.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 12:56 PM
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Thank you, to all, for the fast answers. Couple drafted itineraries shared below.

Option 1: Flying - Safari – Camp / Lodge Vehicles
Nairobi (1 night): Norfolk Hotel
Safari: (2 nights) Amboseli: Tortilis Camp
Safari: (3 nights) Serengeti: Kusini Camp
Safari: (3 nights) Mahale: Greystoke
Safari: (3* nights) Ngorongoro: Ngorongoro Serena.
*3rd night incl. for day trip to Oldupai
Safari: (2 nights) Tarangire: Swala Camp
Drive Tarangire to Arusha (travel arranged by Camp)
Arusha (1 night): Mountain Village

Option 2: Drive / Fly -Private Safari – Land Cruiser
Arusha (1 night): Kigongoni Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Tarangire: Swala Camp
Safari (1 night): Lake Manyara: Gibb’s Farm
Safari (1 night): Ngorongoro: Serena Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti South: Ndutu Lodge
Safari (2 nights): Serengeti Central: Mbuze Mawe Camp
Fly: Serengeti to Mahale Mountain NP
Safari (4 nights): Mahale: Greystoke
Fly: Mahale to Arusha
(1 night) Arusha: Kigongoni Lodge + day trip to Arusha NP - see Kili? / Mt. Meru

Patty:
Thanks for the link. Will have to see if a day trip is possible to Kambi ya Tembo or Ndarakwai Ranch… or just closer to Mt. Kili. Eben’s slideshow is enticing. Such wonderful photos people share. Get’s me excited even more.

atravelynn:
Thank you for the detailed and informative response. Much appreciated.
a) Drive/Fly sounds like best option. Do want some exposure and be able to learn a little about the culture. Also like the idea of having a dedicated guide. Do you know the quality of vehicles the camps/lodges uses vs. the private vehicles? Also would you expect the guides are more seasoned at the camp/lodge or not?
b) Mt Kili – good idea on flightseeing trip. One operator also mentioned a possible drive to see Kili. Not sure how that would work yet.
c) Amboseli – thought it would be worth a try to get a view of Kili and include Amboseli, but due to costs incurred – may send this money towards Mahale instead (extra night).
d) Serengeti – South will be included for at least a couple nights and then potentially central Serengeti for the cats.
e) Safety in tents / Grins: Good to hear there are no stories to tell, however it’s evident there is a risk. Have there been attacks on walking safaris? You mentioned none in vehicles. In Mahale for example it’s hiking in the rain forest and there are some predators. Just saw the added notes and links - will take a look. Did read Rocco's humorous and yes, scary, report about lions between tents. Is there someone guarding tents at night?
f) Mahale: Due to the way schedules work, price and availability of accommodations/flights – 4 nights is the direction we’re headed. 3 would be good. Didn’t want to exhaust our options and feel like we could have spent a day elsewhere. It is the only stop in the Southwest Tanzania, so the flight is an expense. If we decide the cost is too high to do Mahale in this trip, would consider doing it separately with Southern Tanzania, but realistically, expecting this to be a trip of a lifetime that may not be able to be repeated. I’m hooked on Mahale.

climbhighsleeplow:
Thanks for feedback on flights and reliability. Good news. As to Arusha accommodations, ideally would like accommodations first night closer to airport (JRO) or starting point for the safari. If it had a view of Kili would be able to get that goal covered right up front! Not sure if one of the hotels mentioned (Moivara, Kigongoni, Mountain Village) is more strategically placed for a Mt. Kili view.
Mahale flights: the limited flights are driving either a 3 or 4 nights stay as you noted.

Bat:
Thanks for the drive/fly combo support. Sounding like that gives best of everything.

Nikao:
First, you do very well with your wildlife photos – they are wonderful!
Did you get a view of Mt. Kili when you were at Kigongoni Lodge? Do you know where Moivara or Mountain Village is in related to Kigongoni? Saw your thread (thanks) and since you have family there, relying on your recommendation. Since you chose Kigongoni, think that is best choice for value?
Any fears of canoeing and getting any parasites from the water (first-timers paranoia!)? Also did you get a view of Mt. Kili and Mt. Meru while you were at Arusha NP?
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 02:24 PM
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Since no one can guarantee exactly where the migrating wildebeest herds will be at your time of travel, past experience has shown that they don't get to the southern plains till at least mid-January, or in February (some years have not even made it to the south). This past year, of course, was way off due to the drought where the herds didn't arrive until March. You might do better staying in the Central/Seronera area of the Serengeti than in the southern plains. You can inquire of your tour operator about the Nomad Camps or the new CCA lux camping under canvas, if they'll be located more central than southern.

On the Option 1 Flying Safari - if you arrive NBO and fly to Amboseli, you'll have to fly back to get into Tanzania (Arusha) unless they are planning a road transfer at the border to Arusha where you get a flight to the Serengeti. While there is an airstrip at Ndutu (Kusini) it's not a regularly scheduled stop and may cost you for a charter flight. I also wouldn't stick Mahale in the middle of a northern itinerary. Finish the north and then head to Mahale as in Option 2. Also, if you've already received prices, Option 1 is going to be way more expensive then Option 2.

On Option 2 - Ngorongoro for 3-nts is a bit much, considering crater tours are only 1/2-day unless you pay extra for back-to-back afternoon and following morning. And a full day in the Oldupai area may also be more than is needed. If you are still considering Ndutu Lodge, be sure there is space (last I heard, they are booked for the first-quarter 2007... most guests being waitlisted). In fact, make certain all accommodations you decide on are available before you book any itinerary. Visits during the Christmas/New Year holiday incur price surcharges and January is high-season in Tanzania; while the price for Amboseli should be lower in January.

If you do Mahale at the end of your itinerary, you can depart for home from Dar-es-Salaam, thus avoiding flight all the way back to Arusha. BA and KLM have departing flights from DAR (I'm assuming you're returning to Europe or to the States... if other, my mistake, but DAR should be considered).

Though I visit Kenya/Tanzania on business and mostly travel by air to save time (though not money), I prefer a combo drive/fly safari if traveling for leisure.

With which travel agent, operator or outfitter are you working?
 
Old Apr 9th, 2006, 03:06 PM
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a)Do you know the quality of vehicles the camps/lodges uses vs. the private vehicles? Also would you expect the guides are more seasoned at the camp/lodge or not?

With reputable operators, I don't think there should be a difference. I cannot recall a difference using both options. I recall the ocassional minor flaw with the camp vehicle and the private. These were things like one delay on one morning game drive once with the camp vehicle due to mechanical troubles. One window that did not go up and down easily on the private departure vehicle. Nothing major.

But vehicle quality is something to mention up front to your operator. In Rocco's report did you read about the lack of quality with his vehicle?

I also could not tell a great difference between guides working out of a camp and touring guides. That's because they share knowledge, sightings, information. They usually help each other. The touring guides still spend a lot of time in each park because they repeat essentially the same circuits.

c) I'd vote for more Mahale too. I was able to see the top of Kilimanjaro on the road between Nairobi and Arusha, so you may be able to see it en route to a destination if you make that wish known.

d) Nice plan as the Central Serengeti is always good.

e) I don't know of any attacks on walking safaris. There was a guy in Namibia who left the vehicle for an elephant photo, scared the small herd, and was killed. Moral of story--stay in the vehicle. If he had been approaching the elephants on foot, they probably would not have gotten that close to begin with.

Last summer a woman was killed by a lion in an enclosed park in Zimbabwe. The news accounts stated they did not know why the woman and others were walking inside the enclosure. Moral of story--stay out of lion cage. These were not free roaming wild lions, but penned animals.

I can recall reading about the death of a hunter or two. Moral of story--don't try to kill the animals and they are not likely to attack you.

One man was intent on checking out the action and sounds outside his tent at night and ventured out on his own walking safari. He got away with this several nights in a row, despite being warned by the camp staff to cut it out.
Eventually a buffalo ran him down and killed him. I forget where that happened, but it doesn't matter. The end result would likely be the same anywhere. Moral of story--stay in your tent at night. I've even done mobiles where you have to walk a short distance to the toilet tent. There is a lantern and you take a flashlight and I don't know of a problem with this setup. I'm sure you need will not to do that, though.

I do know of three incidents on the water. One guy canoeing on the Zambezi was killed by a croc. One woman and maybe her husband were killed by a hippo while on a small boat in the Okavango Delta in Botswana. Recently, a doctor on a humanitarian mission was pulled from his canoe by a croc on the Limpopo River in Botswana. Still even these accidents are rarer than car wrecks or shooting deaths in my city.

Some camps have a wandering guard at night. You could ask your agent about that or email the camp directly.

While you are walking the animals are afraid of you and that's why it is much harder to get good pictures. I've encountered lions while walking and even at 300 or more meters, they start to cower and move away. Probably no lions in Mahale, maybe a leopard. The one leopard I encountered on foot took off like a shot and I got only a glimpse.

If Jane Goodall could survive all those years in Gombe, your couple of hikes in Mahale should be fine. You'll have trained professionals with you, probably armed.

Actually buffalo are more dangerous than predators, especially the lone males. I've never heard of a tourist being killed by a buffalo.

Hippos kill the most people each year, not tourists, but fisherman along the river. If a hippos want to get to the water quickly it will mow down anything in its way.

Don't want to expound on morbid details. The purpose is to recount the worst incidents I am aware of and how far removed you are from those situations.

f) I'd be most interested if you are able to share your transportation logistics for Mahale. Four days would be wonderful. You are right to plan this as your one shot at Africa. If you are like most of the posters here, though, it will not be.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 07:37 PM
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Sandi:
Thank you, Sandi. Logistics were a little difficult with the flying safari, and not helped by trying to include Amboseli. Since there were flights from parks enroute, Mahale mid-stream was an option to break up the routine in the middle. Having Mahale at the end is also my preferred close/end of trip. Little relaxation and break from being on alert all the time. Agree that a 3 night stay does seem long given the cut-backs on viewing/game drives at the Crater. Favor the one night stay with 2 half day game drives. Haven’t got quotes yet on Option 1 – so will see. Maybe there will be recommendation to change itinerary or sequence visits differently.

Good detail on Oldupai and Ndutu. Ndutu Lodge does seem to be popular. Even if the migration hasn’t made it that far, it does seem well placed to see kopjes and some of the long grass area in Serengeti. Sounded like there’s resident game in that area year round – is that right? Did a quick airline availability check on DAR and it’s slightly higher, but about the same. From maps of Tanzania it appeared to be approx same distance, but guess there could be stopovers between Mahale and Arusha. Still thinking may include a day trip in Arusha area to “see” or potentially get a glimpse of Mt. Kili. Drive/Fly is your choice too…. Sounds like it’s a very solid choice.

Atravelynn:
You are so kind to do research and share the stories. Some of those were scary, but enjoyed the moral of the stories! You have good sense of humor. As to the vehicles, will share my concerns with the operators and maybe it will be part of the agreement. Also when it comes to the guide, wasn’t sure how to ensure getting a pleasant and seasoned guide – sounds a lot like luck. Just want one that’s as well connected to the sightings/information/knowledge as you noted.
Definitely going to ask if there’s a wandering guard at night at the campsites. The bathroom facilities are ensuite in these accommodations, so don’t expect to have issues with walking in the dark. Going to and from dinner might be the only exposure.
Heard about Hippos being aggressive when people are between them and the water, so that’s fits. The safety issues do seem avoidable and manageable, just taking the advice of the operator and guides.
Arrangements for Mahale: Option 2 itinerary: Serengeti Seronera (Nomad) departure to Mahale on a Thursday; returning on Nomad flight from Mahale Airstrip to Arusha on a Monday. There is a boat transfer from Mahale airstrip to the camp area.
Arrangement for Mahale: Option 1 itinerary – air transport not yet defined
Although it would be my first safari – it may not be my last. I’ve been known to return to places I love.

Got some work ahead of me to get with operators and validate accommodations are available. Still need to make final decision on Amboseli (in or out). Appreciate any further advice in meantime.
Thank you all for helping me and sharing your experiences and advice.

LovetoDiscover
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 09:52 PM
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we got a view at kili from kikongoni, not from Arusha NP..

Mount Meru is constantly present around Arusha

About Mountain Village; we walked there from Kikongoni (nice walk!) and did some canoeing there as well. It looked also very nice.
I wouldn't worry about parasites.. In Arusha NP all you have to worry about are the hippo's in the lake But with a good guide you will be ok.
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Old Apr 9th, 2006, 10:11 PM
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Thank you Nikao. Excellent news about Kigongoni. We may now have time one day to walk around Arusha and enjoy then. Both Kili and Mt. Meru - gold mine!
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Old Apr 10th, 2006, 05:26 AM
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lovetodiscover

To see the locations of the Arusha lodges, you can see my map here:
http://www.go-safari.com/Arushamoshi/arushamoshi.htm

The views to Kili from Kigongoni and surrounding areas may not be as you expect! The mountain is quite far away and mostly look like a cloud in the sky. It is hard to photograph from that distance.

The best views are from the western Kilimanjaro areas as Patty stated, or from lodges that are closer such as Ngurdoto, Mt Meru Game Lodge and Ngare Sero. The views of Mt Meru are also better from these lodges as you can see the more drammatic eastern edges.

All of this is weather dependent. Kili has a nasty way of hiding itself in the clouds.

You also get great views when flying to/from Nairobi from Kili airport.

December/january is generally not prime time in Ndutu. The most drammatic kopjes are northwest of Ndutu and far away as you cannot drive directly there. I would only include Ndutu if you have enough time to afford a split between Seronera and Ndutu. In January 2006, people were driving from Ndutu to Seronera to see wildlife and most of the drive was void of animals!

A stay in a seasonal camp near Seronera or south of Serenera may be a better option as these camps follow the migration so you don't have to worry about it!

See my map here:
http://www.go-safari.com/Serengeti/serengeti.htm

Scheduled Mahale flights will pick/drop you at Manyara, Kleins, Ndutu, Seronera at extra costs.

The flight from Mahale to the coast stops at Arusha unless you are on a private charter.

Note that Mahale flights depart/arrive Arusha Airport (see my map). Arusha Coffee Lodge is closest.
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Old Apr 10th, 2006, 06:13 AM
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lovetodiscover and atravelynn:

I have been researching a Mahale-Katavi trip and as eben reported there is a shared charter run by Tanganyika Flying company (the company is on Nomad's website but there is no further link). Under their descriptions of Mahale and Katavi they describe a "Beast Retreat" trip. It is a 4/3 or 3/4 split between the two camps. As Eben indicated there are Monday and Thursday departures. I believe that the first stop is Mahale so that a Monday departure would be a 3/4 M-K split and a Thurs. would be a 4-3. I am trying to verify whether it is only done in that direction (M-K) or whether it can be done in reverse. Lynn, to stay longer I believe you would have to stay 7 nights to catch a shared charter or pay for a private charter.
www.nomad-tanzania.com

Tanganyika Swiss Hotels/flycatcher camps show a similar 7 day trip to their camps with departures on Sundays and Wednesdays but they only run July to October according to their website. http://www.flycat.com/e/tanganyika_info.html
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Old Apr 10th, 2006, 10:18 AM
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Nomad indicates that the shared plane route is Arusha-Katavi-Mahale-Arusha and for their 7 day trips the Monday departures are 3 days Katavi then 4 days Mahale, whereas the Sunday departures are 4 days Katavi and then 3 days Mahale.
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Old Apr 10th, 2006, 01:12 PM
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Thanks for the Mahale/Katavi information. I think I'd do 4 at Mahale and 3 at Katavi.
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Old Apr 10th, 2006, 01:43 PM
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OK, new information on Mahale-Katavi (Nomad). A travel agent has told me that the flights run both ways but that they are limited to Monday and Thursday arrivals/departures. So you could go Mahale then Katavi OR Katavi and then Mahale (or only one camp I would imagine--but the flight between is only 50 minutes so they make a great combo).

You still need to pay attention to your day of arrival because it will control how many nights at the camp. Ie, a Monday departure from Arusha means 3 nights at the camp (unless you are going to spend 7 nights) because your flight out will be on Thursday. A Thursday departure from Arusha means 4 nights because your departure would be on Monday.

That is my current understanding! We will see if it changes.
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