As part of our tour we are being taken to a carpet cooperative in Fez. Is this a good place to buy a rug or will we do better in the markets?

I got back from Morocco 4 days ago and was also taken to a carpet cooperative in Fez. The prices were way too high. There were no bargains to be found.

I live in NJ and there are a dozen stores in the area that sell imported Morrocan rugs. I did my homework in advance and knew I could do better on prices here at home.

Part of the problem is that "cooperatives" are rarely "co-ops" as we think of them...there are a few shady dealers who use the term very very loosely. Furthermore, often the prices are fixed (so no haggling), but strangely, many peope assume that because they're fixed, they're reasonable. You'll pay a huge premium to avoid the game of haggling.

Avoid the big rug "co-ops" and seek out the smaller dealers - they'll have smaller selections, but much better prices - and more likely than not, the money is actually going to the people who made the carpets.

Of course, you can buy Moroccan stuff at Pier 1 and other stores like that - and you might even get it a bit cheaper - but with a bit of effort, you can buy the same thing here- simultaneously supporting the economy and getting an experience more unique than shopping at Pier 1!

I just want to reiterate jenmaroc's last statement: "simultaneously supporting the economy and getting an experience more unique than shopping at Pier 1!"

We bought a few rugs while we were in Morocco last month. Could I have gotten them cheaper here? Well, maybe, maybe not. But we loved the bargaining experience, and are reminded of our wonderful trip when we look at them.

Are you sure it's a cooperative? I went to a carpet shop in Fez with a group tour and did all right. The asking prices are outrageous and I offered about 25-30 percent less and we met somewhere around 46-50 percent of the asking price. If it's truly a coop and the prices are fixed and too high just say "la shukran" -- no thank you.

Ask you tour guide for guidance or go to an artisanal ensemble before going to the coop to get an idea of value.

We also visited a ceramic cooperative and most of us paid the tagged price assuming we had to, but our best bargainer got a "special price" by bargaining.

I bought an old Berber rug and it is beautiful. I don't think I'd ever see anything like it a Pier 1. I think what you find there are more like "Berber-style" probably made in China and maybe machine made from Morocco, but not the hand woven that you will find in Morrocco. If you want a unique, hand woven rug or wall hanging, they are not cheap but you don't have to pay the asking price.

Take a day trip up to Azrou in the mountains, near Fes. Carpet prices are cheaper and dealers are more friendly. Most of the carpets seem to be made in the mountains, so they should be cheaper there. If you can find out when the weekly souk is, you may do even better...

I just want to clarify that when I said I can get a carpet cheaper at home I wasnt talking about Pier 1.

There is gentleman that has a shop near me. He brings containers of rugs over from Morocco as well as other countries. I have no doubt he gets them for rock bottom prices because he is selling them for very reasonalbe prices.

I checked his prices and quality before going to Morocco so that I would have a point of comparison. His prices are a fraction of even the post-bargain prices that I encountered in the carpet shops in Fez and Marrakesh. Plus then there is shipping on top of that.

I believe Jenmaroc is correct. I always have a better outcome shopping on my own than in the 'co-op's. You end up paying a pretty steep price for the convenience and relative safety of shopping in places like that, rather than seeking out a merchant on your own.

In addition I am just about certain that those co-ops end up giving a certain percentage back to the referring party.

This just struck me about referral fees. Are they necessarily bad? My guide in Cairo to me places where I'm sure he got a kickback, um, I mean, a referral fee, but I felt that the quality was good in each of the places. I figure that he saved me much time trying to find a place which would treat me well.

Additionally, to bring up a theme that was discussed in an Egypt thread recently, my guides all needed the few Egyptian pounds I paid in referral fees more than I did.

A few pounds (or dihrams) is one thing, but paying more than twice the value of the rug is another.

The other thing I noticed is that the merchants that dealt with tour groups were far less willing to bargain. It seemed to me that with such a large (and affluent) audience there was very little reason to drop prices.

Were I in your situation, I would look around on my own first and also visit the co-operative. that way you'll have a better idea of pricing.

Be warned, it is very hard to leave empty handed once you start talking prices!

<<Be warned, it is very hard to leave empty handed once you start talking prices!>>

Yes, don't even ask about a carpet if you're not really interested.

I disagree with the statement about merchants not bargaining with groups, however. We had some tough hagglers in our group and got rugs for half or less than half of the asking price.

Luisah,
I'm sorry to say this, but its pretty standard operating practice here in Morocco that tour groups get the worst deals. Femi is spot-on. I know a place here that primarily deals with tour buses. The marked prices are extortionate so that the group leader can offer a "20-30%" discount- "special price, just for you". If pushed, they might even drop another 10-20% - but 50% off extortion is still pretty darn overpriced. To give you an idea, the FIRST price non-group folks get is 40% of the marked price.

The idea is that if you're willing to pay the premium to go with a tour group (and it is usually a lot more expensive than going solo), you're not going to be too bothered about an extra couple hundred dollars here and there.

Hi Jen,

I'm sure this happens and I probably paid too much but I never saw another rug like the one I bought in Fes (an old berber kilim) and I like it very much, so I'm not going to worry about it.

The two shops that we went to had stacks of carpets on shelves throughout the rooms and there were no marked prices and no offers of discount (this did happen in a jewelry shop in Meknes though -- 10% off just for me). We looked around and of course the salesmen pounced and asked which rugs we liked and then the haggling began.

I do wish I had a better idea of prices as NJriverchick has but alas, there are no shops in my area with Moroccan rugs.

I also paid about $5.00 too much for something I bought from a kid but my Moroccan friend said the boy's family probably ate meat that night so how could I regret it.

I will try to become more educated about prices before I return though.

You are right, Luisah, you should not feel bad about whatever you paid. The thing I tell all people who ask me "what is a reasonable price for X?" is that you should never pay more for something than its worth to you. Even if it only cost $2 to make X, if you're happy to pay $50 for it, then great! Vendor and buyer are both happy. The value of something is not directly related to the cost of its production.

And your secondary point is also a good one - a few extra dollars (I'm not talking about a big time fleecing here) will mean a lot more to the locals than it might to you.

The point I was really trying to clarify was that it is customary for tour groups to get the worst deals here.

Just smile and stand your ground - we just got back from Morocco last week with a new rug. We needed a replacement for the one in the living room, so we expected to buy one there.

We saw the rug of our dreams in Fez - wool and silk, perfect colors, well-made - but balked HARD at the price. I was pretty sure we'd never come to terms with our budget.

But lo and behold, we ended up buying the darn thing for about one-fifth of the asking price - yep, one-fifth. And the final price was about $200 more than I would have spent on a machine-made olefin rug of the same size at Home Depot.

Forgot to add the on-topic point - we bought in a co-op, to which our guide directed us. But we were not part of group, so maybe that helped.

BTW, they also gave us the line that that the first sale of the week is good luck, and that's why we got the "special price."