Philbill

Could any of you Foderites please comment on the following itinerary and price quote please?
I asked for something reasonably priced for the beginning of November 2007.
Day 1 Arrive Johannesburg and spend night
Day 2 Okonjima Bush Camp
Day 3 and 4 Mushara Lodge (Etosha)
Day 5 and 6 Sossusvlei
Day 6 Windhoek
Day 7 and 8 Ilala Lodge at Vic Falls
Day 8 and 9 Chobe Savanna Lodge
Day 10 and 11 Savute (note spelling) Lodge at Savute
Day 12 and 13 Xugana Island Lodge (guided walks, boating and mokora rides
Day 14 and 15 Camp Moremi (Okavanga Delta)
Day 16 Fly to Johannesburg

The cost for 2006 would be just under $7000 each with at least a 10% increase for 2007.

Any comments/suggestions positive or negative would be so welcome.
Thank you!

sandi

Am I correct in that this is a fly only itinerary? It should be from WHD to VFA and then in/around Botswana, and sure hope so from Etosha to Soussuvlei?

Any drive portions, especially at Mushara or using lodge vehicles. Etosha so nice/easy to do on your own?

You're covering quite a bit of ground, and do see places where you can spend more time.

Let's see what others have to comment.

jasher

Hello,

It's hard to say whether your pricing is good without knowing a bit more about what the quote includes -- how are you being transferred between camps (air vs road)? Are flights from Joburg-Windhoek and Maun-Joburg included?

Where are you staying in Joburg, Sossusvlei and Windhoek?

From an itinerary standpoint, I'd recommend cutting back the number of places you're visiting and spending more time in each one. Moving on every two days means you are spending a large portion of your budget on transportation rather than on your safari, in addition to having to constantly pack and unpack which many people find less than restful. I'd recommend 3 days at each place (2 for Vic Falls and Okonjima).

With only 16 days you will be hard-pushed to see both countries. I'd recommend choosing one and doing an in-depth exploration of that country. This will also save substantially on transport costs and city stays.

In Botswana, your itinerary might end up looking something like this:

Victoria Falls x2
Linyanti x4
Okavango Delta Camp 1 x3
Okavango Delta Camp 2 x3
Makgadikgadi Pans x3

I'd recommend the Linyanti over Chobe -- being in the private concessions will enable you to do off-road and night driving, and the predator viewing is superb.

The Makgadikgadi Pans are a lesser-known but stunning area of Botswana, inhabited by unique desert wildlife. I visited the Pans on my recent trip -- you can read about them in my trip report:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34844345

For Namibia, your itinerary might end up looking something like this:

Joburg x1
Okonjima Bush Camp x3
Etosha x4
Damaraland x3
Sossusvlei x3

Depending on your flight times, you may need an overnight in Windhoek at the end.

If you really want to do both countries, your itinerary might end up looking something like this:

Joburg x1
Okonjima Bush Camp x2
Etosha or Sossusvlei x3
Windhoek x1
Ilala Lodge x2
Linyanti x3
Okavango Delta Camp 1 x3

You'd lose two camps over your current itinerary, but would have a much more relaxed trip and be able to spend more time getting to know each environment.

Cheers,
Julian

Philbill

Whoa..such quick responses..thanks.
Johannesburg Southern Sun Airport Hotel
Fly to Windhoeck
Charter flight to Okonjima
Charter flight to Etosha
Charter flight to Sossusvlei
Fly to Windhoeck and stay at Olive Grove Guest House
Fly to Vic Falls
Drive to Kasane and then on to Chobe Savanna (boat)
Boat back to Kasane
Light air transport to Savute
Light air transport to Xugana
Light air to Maun
Fly to Johannesburg
All included in the cost (only breakfasts at hotels/guest house and no tours inc. at the Falls).

Philbill

Oops..Kulala Desert Lodge at Sossusvlei including all meals and activities......

jasher

Hello,

Given where you are staying (particularly in Botswana), the price seems on the high side to me, though the large number of transfers no doubt accounts for some of the expense.

For about the same amount of money you could be staying in some much nicer camps. Wilderness Safaris runs superb camps in both Namibia (including Kulala Desert Lodge) and Botswana:

http://www.wilderness-safaris.com

November is shoulder season in Botswana, which means lower prices. The beginning of November is very popular as it offers high season game-viewing without high season prices, and tends to book up rapidly. If you went with Botswana, I'd recommend travelling as early in the month as possible.

HIgh season in Namibia ends on November 15, so if you choose Namibia you would save quite a bit of money by waiting until later in the month.

If you did both countries, you might want to try to time it so the Namibian leg comes last and falls in shoulder season.

Cheers,
Julian

Kavey

Glad you did post here for some input - I knew some of these folks would be able to give some good advice.

If you're not tied in to this yet I'd certainly ask for their input on their suggested itineraries for your budget. I bet they could either beat the budget for the same or suggest ways to make it go further/ better camps!

Good luck!
Kavey

Philbill

Kavey...you must stay up late!! No, I am not tied in to this, but it took a few weeks to get the quote and I want to confirm my land before the 11 1/2 months or whatever it is when frequent flyer miles can be used to upgrade!!! I think the best use of my miles is to purchase World Traveller Plus and upgrade to Club with miles.
I can certainly see the amount of flying we are doing when I broke it down and typed it on the posting...and I take the words to heart in that don't spend safari money on transportation.
I guess we could just do Botswana......
I just would like to see the dunes too!!!

jasher

Hello,

IMO taking a few weeks to get back to you with a quote is ridiculous -- it doesn't take that long to contact the camps and check availability. Not a good sign...

Cheers,
Julian

kimburu

Warning: non-expert comment and hearsay! But you can trust me.... honest!!

I understand that 2007 prices for Namibia have only recently come out and that may help explain the delay (I have had a similar (shorter) delay myself) although you'd hope that information would have been passed on to you. Also, some Namibian prices are only valid up to 31 October, some to 30 November and some to 31 December, so maybe the timing of your trip makes pricing very complicated. Don't know about Botswana. Being in a hurry I'm not sure the delay is a good sign, but thought you would like to know there may be some extenuating circumstances.

If money is an issue here you know you might be able to save a considerable amount by doing the Namibia portion self-drive and then booking the Vic Falls and Botswana portion as a separate trip? Also, charter flights to Windhoek -Okinjima and Okinjima-Etosha is rather extravagent isn't it? I bet you door to door the flights take nearly as long as the drive. However, from what I know, if this is not a group trip the overall price is very competitive.

Have you taken into account that by staying outside the park at Etosha you will miss the night waterhole viewing - although you will surely have far, far superior accommodations? There are some negatives about the accommodations inside Etosha but a trade-off has been made there and most people tend to trade the other way - or mix some time inside the park with some outside.

I also think you are trying to do too much. Although you don't want to miss something after coming all that way, you'll be spending such a lot of your trip on the move.....

Another idea to save money is perhaps looking into self-driving Namibia and do an add on combining Caprivi Strip in Namibia with Victoria Falls and Kwando - I think Rocco mentioned these a while back... there are (hopefully not were?) packages where you can combine nights at nice lodges in the Caprivi Strip with 2 night add-ons to Victoria Falls and various camps in Botswana and Zambia - which are literally the other side of the river. There are border posts right there and ferries accross the river. I didn't get past casual enquiries myself because we decided to just do Namibia, but unless you are set on particular camps and areas within Botswana this might be worth a look.

Finally I wonder why you don't just book your flights - if you need to shave a thousand or two off the price I'm sure it can be done quite easily - your current itinerary is what I'd call "extravagant" rather than "reasonable" and if money is not an issue you're going to go anyway, and J'burg is going to be your entry point.

Kavey

I think combining Botswana and Namibia isn't out of the question - we did the same thing on our first trip to the region and felt it worked really well. That said we didn't do Victoria Falls as well and we also restricted ourselves to the Okavango Delta only in Botswana. On our following trip we visited other areas of the country.

And yes, I was up faaaaaaaar too late and hence slept in too late and now I'm going to have such a JOB getting my body clock back to normal - I have a job at client site on Wednesday and then a very very early flight out of London to Venice on Thursday.

sandi

Bill -

Thanks for the routing and means of transport, which obviously are adding to your costs. And though prices drop in Namibia after 15 Nov, know that it is also very hot at this time; in Botswana it's hot and humid, with rain not being unusual.

Do a search for a report that (I believe) Celia did a few years back. They did a drive safari through Namibia, which is a good place for this. Though Etosha and Sossuvlei are at opposite ends from one anther, you can certainly drive Windhoek, Okinjima to Etosha. From Etosha fly to Sos. But I believe there is limited flight service from WDH to Maun; though maybe more to VFA.

For a person who likes to move in one direction, moi - I'd do Namibia, then move into Botswana for the delta, than keep moving east to Vic Falls, ending in JHB.

And, as Julian mentions, two days limits your game viewing time; do consider 3/days at some of your stops, even if having to eliminate some visits. At a point, we all come to realize it can't all be done in the limited time many of us have.

Namibia w/ VFA add-on or Botswana with a VFA add-on can more effectively be done as separate trips. Or do VFA, the delta and then Namibia.

There's always another trip in all of us. Give these suggestions a bit more consideration, but do book your airline tickets if using FF miles. You can then fill in the itinerary, with a more reasonable pace.

Keep us posted.

jasher

Hello,

Take a look at the Southern Africa Trip Report Index, which includes Botswana, Namibia, and SA.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34858382

The most recent reports are at the bottom so you may want to start there. There is a Fodorite (Teamsonia) currently travelling on a seven-week pan-African itinerary which includes Tanzania, Botswana, and Namibia -- hopefully she will post a report when she returns.

Cheers,
Julian

Philbill

I can't believe all of the wonderful advice from all. Thank you so much. I am now considering focussing on Botswana because of the input. I would still like to meander over to Namibia...but the cost of going to the dunes may be not worth it with respect to concentrating on Botswana and therefore I think maybe miss this area??!! So much to peruse overnight, and I was at a champagne buffet for 4 hours today with my family so until tomorrow methinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Philbill

Which month to go????????????????????
We were thinking November to save money, but then we hear about the high temps. in Botswana Oct/Nov..
Maybe May then...Better weather??? Maybe too late to get the mileage air upgrades. No herds??
Splurge for August?????
AAGGHH...
Thanks for all the advice, and a special thanks to Kavey and Julian who have gone above and beyond in helping me to sort through all my potential plans (which seem to be constantly changing).
I feel like I'm writng my Oscar acceptance speech...........

bellhouse

I, too, would urge you to spend at least one night inside Etosha at a lodge. It's pretty spartan, but being able to sit at the waterhole and watch animals come and go was a highlight. We spent one night at Okaukuejo and one at Halali since we couldn't get two nights at either. As it turned out, I enjoyed the two different waterholes. Then we spent a night at Mushara (very nice) before flying to Victoria Falls. That was the end of trip - the first part was self drive through Namibia, which was very easy. We went from Windhoek to Sossusvlei to Swakupmond to Damaraland to Etosha. This, plus 3 nights at Livingstone, took us 17 nights. I would loved to have spent months!

jasher

Hello,

Since FF seats are a priority, I'd contact your airline and see what the availability is like. You might be surprised -- I called KLM in August and was able to get FF seats for my October Tanzania trip, so there are last-minute seats out there. May is still a long way away!

There are a number of different strategies people have used to reduce the cost of their airfare to Africa. Some people use FF miles for part of the trip and paying for the other part -- the US-Europe leg is relatively inexpensive, and there is often good availability on the Europe-Joburg leg. Buying an economy class ticket and using miles to upgrade is often easier than getting a free ticket in business class.

Cheers,
Julian