safarited

I've noticed how if this subject is ever mentioned it is almost always greeted with derision and sneers.

Now I'm new to this safari stuff but playing devil's advocate here is it really so appalling if food is left out for animals in a bid to increase the chances of particular wildlife viewing for visitors?

I know no-one wants to be changing animal behaviour or damage natural hunting instincts but wouldn't an animal in the wild seize on the chance of a free meal and take a discarded carcass it came across anyway?

And is this really any different to me putting out fat balls and nuts in my garden to attract different species of bird to enjoy?

I may be wide of the mark but to me things which are done to increase the enjoyment of visitors without harming or damaging the widlife and the environment they live in would seem OK.

Tourism by its very nature in an area like the Kenyan game reserves is going to have some harmful effects on the wildlife and the landscape. That is inevitable. But it is also the tourism that helps to sustain them by the money it provides. I guess it's all about balance.

And we are all tourists when it comes down to it, whether in a back-to-nature basic camp with no electricity and safari showers or in a luxury lodge with all mod cons that happens to put bait out for wildlife. We might think there is a right and wrong way of being on safari but tourists are what we all are.

Stands back after lighting the blue touchpaper!!!!!

afrigalah

You've not lit any fuse for me ted

It's all about a personal preference to see wildlife behaving as naturally as possible, and if it's hard to find, so be it. That's part of the attraction of going to a wilderness area. Whether baiting is harmful (I suspect it can be), somebody more qualified may be able to say; I just don't like it, so won't go with an operator who practices it.

That said, many camps in southern Africa mainly (I think) create artificial waterholes to attract animals. That doesn't bother me, as the aim is often as much to stop animals straying to unprotected areas in dry times as it is to keep them in protected areas year-round for visitors to see. In wilder, remote places, small man-made waterholes don't stop natural migration. Water is all I put in my garden for birds. I stopped artificial feeding years ago.

BTW, I don't think all predators can be baited. Wild dogs and cheetahs don't scavenge, though I don't know what they'd do if really starving. Seems baiting is done only for leopards because they're so elusive. Anybody aware of baiting done for other species in Africa?

John

atravelynn

Here is a past discussion.

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34893940

afrigalah

Thanks Lynn, I'd forgotten all about that...so much has happened in so little time I'd even forgotten one of my own strong views, but I guess I still would have resisted raising that hoary old chestnut again. Enough said on that lately.

John

Bill_H

<b>is it really so appalling if food is left out for animals in a bid to increase the chances of particular wildlife viewing for visitors?</b>

How would you feel if you were staying at a lodge that baits leopards for the enjoyment of their guests, habituating them to associate food with people, and then a seven year old child is attacked, killed and partially eaten by one of those leopards?

This is what happened at Tarangire (Tanzania) about 18 months ago when a young French tourist was killed while walking from his tent to the dining area for dinner.

Do you feel that's an acceptable price to pay so that you can watch a leopard?

Bill

PredatorBiologist

To continue with what Bill_H states: following each animal attack on a human is the destruction of at least one animal and many times more as wildlife managers are not sure they got the correct leopard/cougar/bear, insert whatever animal is applicable.

Bottom line is the simple phrase a &quot;fed animal is a dead animal.&quot; I have already commented much more on the linked thread so I won't repeat everything here but there is no way to do this without raising potential harm for animals and quite often people.

One example I know of that is not targeting leopards is at Okonjima where they feed honey badgers and porcupines on a nightly basis.

santharamhari

PB: they bait honey badgers?

i was reading that samburu thread where lodges bait leopards and there is possibly a row of jeeps waiting to take turns to see the feeding.....this is the best example of, &quot;open range zoo&quot;

Hari

PredatorBiologist

Hari:

My understanding is Okonjima puts out kitchen scraps every night and numerous honey badgers and porcupines are well aware and come to eat while people are concealed in/behind a blind. People I talked to said 9 honey badgers were there at one time.

santharamhari

Thanks. Do they fight each other for the food? or they only fight competitors?

kimburu

Just a factual??? point...the danger comes from leaving food out in or next to camp, not from controlled baiting well away from camp or at places where people are not allowed outside. The Tarangire case and many others instances (most famously in the US rather than in Africa at all) are not an argument against baiting of the type at the other places being discussed. Having said that, there are different arguments against that kind of baiting... but all points of view are adequately expressed in the linked thread from last year, so I'll leave it there.

kimburu

And yes, you'd think the honey badgers would fight wouldn't you.. maybe even have a go at the porcupines too! Never read or heard of such a thing there, though... but honey badgers are full of surprises.

My understanding and observation of what happens in Samburu is that lodges put out bait on the other side of the river so people watch from quite a distance. However, a leopard may not wait for sundown to play with or eat the bait and so may sometimes be seen by tourists out on game drives too... drivers seem to check out the areas where the bait is. There may be more to it that I didn't notice, but anyway, open zoo it sure is at that point Hari....

PredatorBiologist

Honey badgers have actually been seen occassionally in gregarious congregations in other areas where there is a natural opportunity for feeding. I think they know what each is capable of and would rather share than fight to serious injury. If another animal takes a shot at them though it better beware.

Kimburu: not a factual point at all. The problem is not just the location its if the bait has any association with humans. We stink, and the predators know that smell. The humans that bring that bait across the river bring all the human scent with it too so animals can still associate the bait with humans which could one day lead them to the camp with the same odors.

Bottom line is I wish everyone would not lend any credence or justification to baiting. There are so many potential ecological consequences and too many ignorant people who don't even want to consider them. It would be best for everyone to just accept that its a bad practice that virtually every managed area in the world did away with decades ago as the negative impacts came to be understood. I understand that many people are not educated on these issues and may never be able to understand some of these complexities so lets not confuse people by suggesting that it is o.k. under any circumstances. For those that don't care about the impact on the animals and potential danger for humans and animals go ahead and pay your money and support it.

kurt_a

So, to put a twist on the point, how do we all feel about shark cage diving? Chumming the water to attract animals, sending them into a frenzy so they associate feeding with the presence and smell of humans?

I find it hard to believe sharks are so far different from other sophisticated predators that this doesn't affect their natural feeding patterns and disrupts other behaviours.

I also find it strange that tourists enjoy the spectacle of driving sharks into a feeding frenzy for their own entertainment but are aghast at the same idea if applied to a lion or leopard or other less reviled predator.

My R0.02 to add fuel to the fire.

Kurt

http://afrikatourism.blogspot.com

santharamhari

Kurt,

Good point.....never thought of that one......and marketed as an adventure sport too....and yes, i plead guilty to want to try it......

Hari

afrigalah

Kurt,

No difference to me; I have the same dislike of animal baiting whatever the species.

John

PredatorBiologist

Kurt: good example, each species may be impacted differently or to different levels based on their natural history -- habitat, social structure, etc. but there will be some kind of impact for sure.

I view chumming for tourism as a poor practice just like baiting for land predators with impacts that are even harder to determine. Like Hari I very much want to go see the great white sharks but I will go with someone not chumming and spend my time where they perform full breaches hunting seals. If I am lucky I will see them, if not I'll try again but I have no interest in just chumming the water so I can see a shark. Just like my other preferred wildife viewing I hope to see them in natural behaviour.

kimburu

Okay, I'll chew on that for a while. Good stuff PredatorB.

napamatt

The shark diving industry has real issues in SA, a recent article in Africa Geographic focused on this very subject and some of the less than savory practices being followed. I would seriously question the ethics of shark diving company and their practises before using them.

mkhonzo

Kurt,
Your appreciation of the shark diving issue is incorrect. I do noy know where you get this &quot;feeding frenzy&quot; imagery from, but I can reassure you that I have never witnessed that behaviour in my outings with the shark boats.

Please head out that way and join a boat to gain a first hand knowledge of the practise as I am convinced that you'll find it quite contrary to your comprehension of what it is about.

I do not think there is much of an analogy between baiting leopards and chumming sharks up from the depths. In the case of the sharks they are not rewarded for rising, as they are not fed any food. While in the case of the leopard the carcass is enjoyed for a couple of days, fdefinite reward for showing up. The shark chum is essentially a slick of oil, which attracts them towards the boat, once there they check out the source and most often move off with out any fanfare.

Pred, where the shark diving is practised is also the same are where you'll see them breaching.

There was in the past a practise of feeding, which has long since stopped. And since they have not been fed, the argument can be made that they still do not associate man on boats as a food source. Wheras there terresrial counterparts might well be making that association.

afrigalah

Chumming sharks is not a sensible practice, if only because of human nature. Tourist operators do it in remote locations (there is at least one great white 'spectacle' in our waters that I know of). Dimwit amateur fishermen follow their example and use similar methods to attract sharks to metropolitan jetties close to where people swim. And whenever a swimmer is taken or injured by a shark close to shore, there's a hue and cry: find and kill that vicious predator.

John