steeliejim

I find this little dustup over operators and the benefits of different lodges interesting.

Admittedly my experience base is smaller than nyama, cooncat and luangwablonde, but having just returned from my second trip in a bit over a year to the same parks, totalling over a month, I think I'm starting to get a pretty good feel for both the Lower Zambezi and So. Luangwa Nat. Park, from both a personal perspective and from others I talked to while there.

I have no vested interest in Luangwa River Lodge, but to say someone wouldn't stay there because it "looks" too upscale, is, frankly, silly and, sorry, uninformed since those making negative comments on this thread haven't been there.

The real question that should be asked when deciding a camp in So. Luangwa Nat. Park, is, "Do I want to stay, for at least part of my vacation, closer to the entrance of SLNP?"

If the answer is in the affirmative, then I would pick LRL in a heartbeat over the others. Heres why (and these are my priorities) superb guiding. After all, you are going to be spending more time with your guide than anyone else, except your companions, at a camp While so far, I have experienced bad guiding at only truly bad guiding at only one camp (none that have been mentioned here), there are differences. Some guides really are more "into" the experience than others. Victor, for example, at LRL, would get as excited about a sighting of the diminuitive elephant shrew as at a mating pair of lions. He truly is passionate about what he does, as well as knowledgeable. And his stories of his experiences in 20 years as a ranger and scout in the park, as well as village life and beliefsk, captivated us. Other guests also raved about LRL's other guide, James.

Size of camp: It's small. LRL accommodates 8 guests, and vehicles are NEVER crowded, unlike many of the other camps near the entrance which seemes always to be packed. Never more than four in a LRL vehicle.

And even though at the entrance, it really is off the beaten path, with its own access across the river into the park--unlike at least some of the other, better advertised, camps near the entrance.

Food and accommodations: LRL is beautifully designed and appointed with individual chalets. Sure,the architecture is more "upscale looking than than at a bush camp, but so what? It still has an intimate feel, and the food is fantastic. It's only a small touch, I suppose, but it does get hot during the day in Sept./Oct. and to come back to the lodge after a drive and be treated to homemade sorbet and ice cream--well, I can tell you one of the recurring fantasy discussions at one of the other camps, esp. by staff, was about the longing for the taste and coolness of ice cream.

If that's luxury, I'll take it! The owner, Sean, is on-site at all times and is very responsive to requests and needs. I am also impressed by how much he cares about the community and it's people.

I'm not sure what is going on, or why, but there have been several negative LRL references, that, to me, and my personal experience, are so off-base, that I can't help but wonder if there is some underlying malicious intent. I do hope not.

Jim

luangwablondes

Mitch

So because you didn't like my alternatives we embarked on this. Typical. And many operators don't want to be bothered with this. The main difference is that melissaom was looking for an easy way across the river. And you want her to get involved in the transfers directly with the camps. Something TAs do for clients.

I didn't say that John Stevens would do the physical transfer, just a source of knowledge.

As far as comparing safety in Zim and Zam, a member of this forum just returned from Zimbabwe and his comments regarding just what we were talking about--which seems to be more recent then whatever you are referring to in Zambia- "Before I joined the group, there were two shoot-outs between poachers and Parks within 48 hours. The second happened on the morning before I arrived, only a few hundred metres away from the clients, with one ranger heavily wounded"
Or did you make this stuff up to impress us?

melissaom

Thanks for your input Steeliejim - I think it is great to get first hand knowledge. We will definitely keep LRL for future trips. I think it looks wonderful, but have decided for more of a bush experience in SLNP.

When are you posting your new trip report??

steeliejim

"And you want her to get involved in the transfers directly with the camps."

Can't speak about camps that don't want to get involved with xfers, and certainly, it doesn't sound like there is any easy way to get directly from Zim camps across the river to Zambia, BUT...

After dealing with Jenny and Julie at Chiawa, I can't imagine any TA doing a better job at insuring that xfers go off smoothly and exactly as planned. In fact our BA flight into Lusaka was almost two hours late, and the connecting ProFlight flight into the Lower Zambezi was held for us until we cleared customs and collected our bags.

Maybe it would have been anyway, but can't help but believe that Dave Cummings, owner of Chiawa who greeted us at the a/p and whisked us through customs (again, as last year) had more than a little to do with it. And, I'll bet that it's camps like Chiawa that often do the details of xfers and hand off the info to the TA's.

In any event, when using a TA, make sure that it allows/encourages direct contact with the camps you've chosen. If it wants to keep a wall up on direct communication, I'd look elsewhere.

And, Melissaom, I've finished going through over 3k pix. Don't imagine you want to see them all, so am reducing them down to a manageable number and uploading to a website.

I'm heading off to the northern end of the State this a.m. for a hopeful meeting with some steelhead (not tigerfish, alas, but beautiful country and a great fish--just different), but will make posting the first installment of my report top priority when I get back later this week.

Jim

nyama

luangwablondes -- why this name calling? Isn't it possible to discuss things on Fodors without putting them on a very personal level?

Regarding safety issues I'm more thinking about violance that is targeting directly at tourists. Sometimes we have a lot of violance in African countries, especially during election years, often not far from tourist areas. I guess there is still a big difference between being a witness of violance, or a victim. In this regard I find your example a little inappropriate.

Whatsoever, I've just got the following from WS Zimbabwe which puts an end to this discussion:

"Unfortunately at this stage Wilderness do not offer any form of road transfer into Ruckomechi. We did this year pursue the option of working with a boat operator out of Chirundu to see whether he could offer boat transfers but due to the problems with fuel etc. this never materialised, so I am afraid at this stage the only option is by charter via Kariba airport."

I must admit that I'm a little surprised that the largest photo safari operator in Zim is unable to offer the same service as that small operator in Mana Pools. At least we have some more facts now. Take over, luangwablondes.


steeliejim -- I guess you're mixing up here two things. 1. This little discourse about luxury and barefoot luxury, and 2. my personal preferences and reasons for choosing (or avoiding) a camp.

I never stated here that being luxury or "looking too upscale" is the reason that I won't visit LRL. I also tried to make it very clear that my decision is a matter of my personal knowledge, taste and preference, and I also tried to keep my statements as neutral as possible, avoiding any negative word.

If you feel happy at LRL and enjoy your stay - wonderful. But I'm looking for something different when going to Africa and I wish you can accept this. Calling this "silly", "uninformed" or "off-base" is a little rude.

steeliejim

Well, Nyama,

There have been a few negative, and inaccurate references lately W/R to LRL, eg cellphones, internet, etc, and as you stated that reading about a camp is all you need to make a decision, I call that uninformed, and your "neutrality" struck me as "damned by faint prise." Since would-be safari goers reading forums (or is it fora), like this to get ideas of where to, or not to go, so-called "neutral" comments can be a kiss of death, esp. to great people doing great jobs at owner run camps which are a dying breed.

And, I stand by my statement that if one chooses to spend time near the entrance of So. Luangwa, he/she can do no better than staying at LRL.

Jim

nyama

Good job for LRL, Jim.

atravelynn

Chiawa already booked up for about a year from now? That's worth noting.

RE: the visitor attacked in Kafue, I had never heard anything about it. After several searches, I found this from 2002.

http://www.africanewssearch.com/olin...&ARG2=3522

luangwablondes

‘why this name calling?’
I was going to take a pass on the rest of the thread before this, because you seem to want to pursue this transfer thing till it puts a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Although I admit, when I read this last posting, you did put a smile on my face. Since you are whining about it, I will comply this time.

Every time I see your user name –nyama- I think of a big hunk of hanging, ripe, smelly, bush meat, covered in flies and dirt, with a raggety barefoot local standing next to it, a machete in one hand, about to chop off a chunk. Somewhat disturbing visual. Too much time in the bush, maybe. I thought I was polite using your name, instead of …uhhhh….. Meat.

Is there a psychologist out there that can tell me what that image might mean? Is it just flashbacks to another time and place? Or…..

As far as safety in both countries (and I noticed other things in this thread), all of a sudden you are belatedly qualifying your statements. We can’t read your mind. My guess it changes with the ebb and flow of the conversation anyway. I don’t think I’m alone on this. According to the article Lynn dug up, the last incident in Zambia apparently took place nearly 5 years ago. Not really a current safety issue. And most likely they were poachers too. Much as the same in Zimbabwe, which took place within the last month, according to an esteemed Fodorite. I think it is a little inappropriate the way you try to dodge this, with this convoluted nonsense. You made a statement regarding which country is safer then the next, and you can’t stand by it. Is it my fault for questioning you on the accuracy of your statement?

nyama

luangwablondes -- I can't help you with your flashbacks from the good old times. Maybe you've been too long away from the bush?

But regarding the safety issues: since Mugabe started his land reform programme in 2000 Zimbabwe is widely regarded as an unsafe travel destination and visitor numbers dropped significantly. If looking at this time frame I'm not aware of a single case of a murdered or heavily wounded tourist in Zimbabwe (please correct me if I'm wrong) whereas we had those fatalities in Zambia. To put a security risk into numbers we usually use something that's called crime statistics. These statistics don't measure what could happen but only what really happened. Comparing these statistics for Zambia and Zimbabwe in the time frame from 2000 to today (the time frame since Zimbabwe is regarded as unsafe) the following statement is indeed true: Zimbabwe is more safe for tourists than Zambia.

As I already told there is a big difference between being a witness of violance or being a victim. I mentioned election years in Africa because I assumed that you as an old Africa hand are aware of the Mombasa shootings or similar incidents where none of the involved parties had any interest in harming tourists. The recent Chizarira shootings fall exactly in this category. I can't see this for the Zambian incidents where criminals directly attacked tourists.

My mind is changing with the ebb and flow of conversations? Maybe. But before criticizing this you should learn for yourself not to change the topic during such conversions. I can't remember that anybody here spoke about security issues before you suddenly came up with this as an argument in a road transfer discussion. And your reflections about meat even indicate a stronger mind problem.

luangwablondes

Let me see if I have this correctly.
2 incidences (murder) about 5 years ago and no repeat since then= Zambia. Unsafe country

2 incidences of felonies with guns in a safari area with tourists nearby within the past month in a country considered unsafe, your words = Zimbabwe. A safe country.

Something doesn’t look right here. Must be the math.

So when this happens, I go back to what my dear old Daddy said “Liars figure, but figures don’t lie.” When people have to juggle the numbers, they’re probably hiding something, a liar, a crook, or just bad at math.

luangwablondes

According to the new math statistics, what I see is trend of lawless from the recent spat of shootings. Zimbabwe is going down the tubes quickly. The poachers are still on the loose, no fuel in the parks to chase down poachers. This is a horrible slide into unabated crime. Tourists save yourselves and run. Shootings in safari areas are on the increase and sooner or later you'll get shot according to Murphys Law of the fool who goes where poachers poach.