Back for 2 weeks and already planning 2008 trip...Zambia! Thoughts?
Oct 29th, 2007, 10:48 AM
#21
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Thanks cooncat4!
If for some reason Kaingo or Tafika can't take us on our dates (I sent the confirmation email tonight) then we will go to LRL.
Now I just hope I am not going to be lamenting at Kaingo with no fans in the heat of Oct!!!
PS A tip for those of you looking at Chiawa and Old Mondoro in late Sept/early Oct...you better book soon! They are already fully booked out on many, many days.
If for some reason Kaingo or Tafika can't take us on our dates (I sent the confirmation email tonight) then we will go to LRL.
Now I just hope I am not going to be lamenting at Kaingo with no fans in the heat of Oct!!!
PS A tip for those of you looking at Chiawa and Old Mondoro in late Sept/early Oct...you better book soon! They are already fully booked out on many, many days.
Oct 29th, 2007, 11:48 AM
#23
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luangwablondes -- why using 3rd party operators if there is the possibility that the camp operators already offer this transfer service?
I just had a look at the Chiawa website - Chiawa Camp offers boat transfers to/from Gwabi Lodge in Chirundu, combined with a road transfer to/from Lusaka or Kariba. With these established services I'm quite sure that they also will drive you to Gwabi bridge.
On the Zim side we have a road transfer service to/from Vundu Camp in Mana Pools. Ruckomechi is located even nearer to Chirundu - why shouldn't WS offer the same? One just has to ask.
steeliejim -- the Jeki-Mfuwe connection isn't such new - I already used it in 2002 when visiting Old Mondoro.
cooncat -- don't take it too seriously, but what is "barefoot luxury" compared to just plain luxury?
I just had a look at the Chiawa website - Chiawa Camp offers boat transfers to/from Gwabi Lodge in Chirundu, combined with a road transfer to/from Lusaka or Kariba. With these established services I'm quite sure that they also will drive you to Gwabi bridge.
On the Zim side we have a road transfer service to/from Vundu Camp in Mana Pools. Ruckomechi is located even nearer to Chirundu - why shouldn't WS offer the same? One just has to ask.
steeliejim -- the Jeki-Mfuwe connection isn't such new - I already used it in 2002 when visiting Old Mondoro.
cooncat -- don't take it too seriously, but what is "barefoot luxury" compared to just plain luxury?
Oct 29th, 2007, 12:19 PM
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Nyama - All I really mean is that the lodge is very pretty, and well-designed and has big bathtubs and fabulous food - stuff like that, but the vibe is very casual, as if you're at a bush camp - no one has to dress up for dinner, everyone is low-key, friendly, not "stuffy." Does that make sense? In the states, we use "stuffy" to mean.... hmmm.....snooty, or "uppity." Clear as mud??
All I'm saying is that I'm a casual old hippy and LRL suits me just fine!
All I'm saying is that I'm a casual old hippy and LRL suits me just fine!
Oct 29th, 2007, 12:33 PM
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Use of cell phone while on drives at LRL? Where did that come from? I can't imagine Victor or James (LRL's wonderful guides) allowing that. And, as for internet, many of the camps, even Kaingo deep in the park have internet in their back offices, but NOT intended for general client use. LRL is the same way.
Maybe direct xfers between Lower Zambezi and Mfuwe were possible in 2002, but Zambian Airways wasn't offering them last year (I supposed one could have chartered a flight). ZA has dropped out of that market and ProFlight has taken over offering the direct xfers. Jenny Cummings of Chiawa set them up for us.
As for questions, just ask Jenny Cummings of Chiawa directly. The family lives in Lusaka, and she is absolutely AMAZING in her wealth of information, as well as responsiveness to questions. And, if she doesn't know the answer, she'll find out. BTW, here's Jenny hard at work 24/7. T
http://picasaweb.google.com/steeliej...53854064427762.
The photo was taken by Cynthia Tuthill and forwarded by Carolyn Tett of Bushtracks which booked the trip for Cynthia. They've kindly given me permission to post it here.
Note Chelsea in the foreground. She's named after Chelsea Clinton, is 14, and needs two insulin shots a day to control her diabetes (the dog, not the Clinton
Maybe direct xfers between Lower Zambezi and Mfuwe were possible in 2002, but Zambian Airways wasn't offering them last year (I supposed one could have chartered a flight). ZA has dropped out of that market and ProFlight has taken over offering the direct xfers. Jenny Cummings of Chiawa set them up for us.
As for questions, just ask Jenny Cummings of Chiawa directly. The family lives in Lusaka, and she is absolutely AMAZING in her wealth of information, as well as responsiveness to questions. And, if she doesn't know the answer, she'll find out. BTW, here's Jenny hard at work 24/7. T
http://picasaweb.google.com/steeliej...53854064427762.
The photo was taken by Cynthia Tuthill and forwarded by Carolyn Tett of Bushtracks which booked the trip for Cynthia. They've kindly given me permission to post it here.
Note Chelsea in the foreground. She's named after Chelsea Clinton, is 14, and needs two insulin shots a day to control her diabetes (the dog, not the Clinton
Oct 29th, 2007, 02:27 PM
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Nyama
I guess I need to spell it out. You are sure you can get to Chirundu Bridge and Ruchomechi can make the transfer and what about the connection from one side of the river to the next? Who is taking them and luggage through customs and across the bridge. And what if someone runs late. WS is sitting for an hour and no one shows up. The driver leaves. What if communications in Zim go down at the same time. This has happened at other places. If one company arranges the whole thing, it works far better.
Its fine to do things that way for you and I. But for other people whose comfort level is lower, I would not recommend what your suggesting unless the lodges/camps say they can arrange without any hitches.
Most people do one side of the Zambezi or the other, not both. But it would be nice if a flawless transfer between LZNP and Mana Pools developed.
I guess I need to spell it out. You are sure you can get to Chirundu Bridge and Ruchomechi can make the transfer and what about the connection from one side of the river to the next? Who is taking them and luggage through customs and across the bridge. And what if someone runs late. WS is sitting for an hour and no one shows up. The driver leaves. What if communications in Zim go down at the same time. This has happened at other places. If one company arranges the whole thing, it works far better.
Its fine to do things that way for you and I. But for other people whose comfort level is lower, I would not recommend what your suggesting unless the lodges/camps say they can arrange without any hitches.
Most people do one side of the Zambezi or the other, not both. But it would be nice if a flawless transfer between LZNP and Mana Pools developed.
Oct 29th, 2007, 06:10 PM
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Cooncat -- Neither the location of LRL nor the style of its accommodation appeals to me, so I will never visit it, although I certainly would enjoy the vibes. Sean was once a good host to me and I liked to sit and talk with him at the campfire.
Your definition of "barefoot luxury" describes very well most of the luxury safari camps, and LRL is marketed as a destination with the "comforts of a 5 star lodge" - so why not just calling it what it is?
luangwablondes -- all I am saying is: contact the camp operators first - there are good chances that they can arrange such transfer. If they can't, they can still recommend a good 3rd party operator to you with whom they've already worked, or you choose your own. I guess we agree on this.
How often have I landed on an airstrip in the middle of nowhere, the camp kilometres away, and each time I made it to camp without being left alone in the bush, even if I arrived too early or too late. Also Chiawa's boat transfer passes Ruckomechi within a few hundred metres, so I hardly can imagine any communication breakdown. (You can shout to them as last resort.)
Your definition of "barefoot luxury" describes very well most of the luxury safari camps, and LRL is marketed as a destination with the "comforts of a 5 star lodge" - so why not just calling it what it is?
luangwablondes -- all I am saying is: contact the camp operators first - there are good chances that they can arrange such transfer. If they can't, they can still recommend a good 3rd party operator to you with whom they've already worked, or you choose your own. I guess we agree on this.
How often have I landed on an airstrip in the middle of nowhere, the camp kilometres away, and each time I made it to camp without being left alone in the bush, even if I arrived too early or too late. Also Chiawa's boat transfer passes Ruckomechi within a few hundred metres, so I hardly can imagine any communication breakdown. (You can shout to them as last resort.)
Oct 29th, 2007, 06:55 PM
#34
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That's cool, Nyama. Different strokes for different folks is another term we use in the U.S.
My personal take is that I don't judge a place until I've been there. There are several properties I've heard about and seen online that initially didn't appeal to me. Once I visited, my views changed. I have no issue with the location of LRL. Once there, you feel like you're in the park, like every place else.
Also - I wouldn't get too hung up on terms like "barefoot luxury." It certainly means different things to different people. I meant that it is very casual. I am a person who dislikes pretense, and the vibe of a place is fairly important to me. In a global forum it can be difficult to express what one really is trying to say! And most of what we are talking about is terribly subjective anyway....
My personal take is that I don't judge a place until I've been there. There are several properties I've heard about and seen online that initially didn't appeal to me. Once I visited, my views changed. I have no issue with the location of LRL. Once there, you feel like you're in the park, like every place else.
Also - I wouldn't get too hung up on terms like "barefoot luxury." It certainly means different things to different people. I meant that it is very casual. I am a person who dislikes pretense, and the vibe of a place is fairly important to me. In a global forum it can be difficult to express what one really is trying to say! And most of what we are talking about is terribly subjective anyway....
Oct 29th, 2007, 09:15 PM
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Cooncat -- I don't necessarily need to visit a place to decide whether it fits my requirements or not. In case of accommodation it's quite simple: I just have to look at pictures. To determine if the location is good or not so good for my personal preferences I could analyze brochures and trip reports (how are game sightings around the place? is it an exclusive area where you don't see/hear any other human activities? how are the access routes to game drive areas? is it already located in a game drive area?) but in case of LRL it's quite simple because I know the area quite well - I havn't stayed there, but I have been at least 200 metres next to it. And I've got comments from people who are living in the area. For me that's enough information to know that there are a lot of other places in South Luangwa which I would prefer, where I would feel a little more in the park. Just my personal opinion and choice. Vibes? I've never experienced a small camp or lodge in Africa with bad vibes, so this is not an important point for me because I always expect good vibes.
What I found funny was your attempt to praise this luxury as a different kind of luxury although the same attributes can be applied to nearly every luxury small safari camp I know. Excuse me, but this all sounded to me like a little marketing blabla.
luangwablondes -- The whole upmarket safari travel is based on the concept that operators drop you somewhere and others pick you up, and that they don't let you down if something doesn't work according plan. This works everywhere (also on remote airstrips without radio contact) and I really can't see why this shouldn't work in Chirundu. Chiawa and Ruckomechi/Wilderness are very renowned upmarket operators with good infrastructure (such as backup vehicles) and excellent communications facilities (I know this from personal experience, in case of Ruckomechi only 2 weeks ago). Problems and breakdowns can happen, but I'm quite sure that these operators can handle it then much better than most other operators.
So in case Chiawa and Ruckomechi offer these transfers, I really can't see the advantage of using a 3rd operator for the transfer.
What I found funny was your attempt to praise this luxury as a different kind of luxury although the same attributes can be applied to nearly every luxury small safari camp I know. Excuse me, but this all sounded to me like a little marketing blabla.
luangwablondes -- The whole upmarket safari travel is based on the concept that operators drop you somewhere and others pick you up, and that they don't let you down if something doesn't work according plan. This works everywhere (also on remote airstrips without radio contact) and I really can't see why this shouldn't work in Chirundu. Chiawa and Ruckomechi/Wilderness are very renowned upmarket operators with good infrastructure (such as backup vehicles) and excellent communications facilities (I know this from personal experience, in case of Ruckomechi only 2 weeks ago). Problems and breakdowns can happen, but I'm quite sure that these operators can handle it then much better than most other operators.
So in case Chiawa and Ruckomechi offer these transfers, I really can't see the advantage of using a 3rd operator for the transfer.
Oct 29th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Sure, the upmarket camps and lodges drop people off at airstrips, other camps, make some transfers close by. But in general they aren’t interested in doing any more then is necessary. Even that doesn’t always work. A plane doesn’t show up for a morning transfer and all later transfers are delayed. Some don’t happen till the next day. I’ve seen this a few times in NLNP for example. But making transfers from way downstream to Chirundu depends on a lot of timing, performance of others, and vehicle performance. If the camps wanted to do this, they would have been doing this a long time. Tour operators wouldn’t be needed. Besides, the camps don’t want to be saddled with these types of problems.
But on the other hand, you never really established at any point these camps could or would do this. Quote- I’m quite sure… , if they offer road transfers….., there might be a chance, …if there is the possibility that the camp operators…You prefer to criticize others that offer a reasonable solution and you offer nothing but a lot of chatter.
And this statement-- only offers guided safaris for his clients- I know this isn’t true about John Stevens. Look at his website. I mentioned John because he has been in the business for over 20 years and pretty much has seen it all. Zambia Safari Company has been in the business a long time also and does arrange cross border transfers.
I am still in awe of your superior knowledge that Zimbabwe is safer then Zambia. Where did that come from? What data do you have to support that? Is Zambia on some secret list of recommended countries to avoid?
But on the other hand, you never really established at any point these camps could or would do this. Quote- I’m quite sure… , if they offer road transfers….., there might be a chance, …if there is the possibility that the camp operators…You prefer to criticize others that offer a reasonable solution and you offer nothing but a lot of chatter.
And this statement-- only offers guided safaris for his clients- I know this isn’t true about John Stevens. Look at his website. I mentioned John because he has been in the business for over 20 years and pretty much has seen it all. Zambia Safari Company has been in the business a long time also and does arrange cross border transfers.
I am still in awe of your superior knowledge that Zimbabwe is safer then Zambia. Where did that come from? What data do you have to support that? Is Zambia on some secret list of recommended countries to avoid?
Oct 30th, 2007, 03:32 AM
#38
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Melissa, I have not been to the Zambian parks (yet) but I just returned from a Sa/Bots/Vic Falls trip that was planned by Southern Destinations in Capetown and I cannot say enough good things about Liesl Matthews, who planned our trip for us. I know they do a lot of Zambian trips so I suggest you add their name to the list of TAs you will contact:
http://www.southerndestinations.com/destinations/zambia
http://www.southerndestinations.com/destinations/zambia
Oct 30th, 2007, 03:55 AM
#39
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luangwablondes - re-read my posts - I gave a very clear advice: contact the camp operators! Isn't it a reasonable solution to contact first the operators with whom you're already dealing before contacting a new one?
I asked the same questions regarding Zambia-Zimbabwe transfers when being at Mana Pools two weeks ago. I got a clear answer from the Vundu Camp/Bushlife Safaris people: "Get a transfer to Gwabi Lodge, and we pick you up then." (I didn't ask at Ruckomechi because I currently have no plans to go back to this place.) So for my preferred destinations (Old Mondoro, Vundu) I already have a very nice solution without using the additional services of any operator in far-away Lusaka (which certainly wouldn't be less expensive). Why shouldn't that work for Ruckomechi? As I told, just ask.
I'm still not quite sure why all your concerns regarding the quality of services by upmarket operators don't apply to companies such as Zambia Safari Company. Did you already use Chiawa or WS and make any bad experiences?
Regarding John Stevens. He sold all his equipment a few years ago. Sure, he and Nicci are offering consultant and booking services, but what you're doing here is just putting another TA into the chain.
Safety in Zambia? Don't know what this has to do with this thread. But this statement reminds me on what PredatorBiologist just said in the Daphne Sheldrick thread about the style of discussions at Fodors... but to update you: a few years ago a travel group on their way to Kafue was attacked and people were killed (if I recall it right it was a group from the Far East). I'm not aware of such an incident in Zimbabwe during the same time frame.
I asked the same questions regarding Zambia-Zimbabwe transfers when being at Mana Pools two weeks ago. I got a clear answer from the Vundu Camp/Bushlife Safaris people: "Get a transfer to Gwabi Lodge, and we pick you up then." (I didn't ask at Ruckomechi because I currently have no plans to go back to this place.) So for my preferred destinations (Old Mondoro, Vundu) I already have a very nice solution without using the additional services of any operator in far-away Lusaka (which certainly wouldn't be less expensive). Why shouldn't that work for Ruckomechi? As I told, just ask.
I'm still not quite sure why all your concerns regarding the quality of services by upmarket operators don't apply to companies such as Zambia Safari Company. Did you already use Chiawa or WS and make any bad experiences?
Regarding John Stevens. He sold all his equipment a few years ago. Sure, he and Nicci are offering consultant and booking services, but what you're doing here is just putting another TA into the chain.
Safety in Zambia? Don't know what this has to do with this thread. But this statement reminds me on what PredatorBiologist just said in the Daphne Sheldrick thread about the style of discussions at Fodors... but to update you: a few years ago a travel group on their way to Kafue was attacked and people were killed (if I recall it right it was a group from the Far East). I'm not aware of such an incident in Zimbabwe during the same time frame.
Oct 30th, 2007, 03:58 AM
#40
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Thanks for your feedback, everyone. It sounds like there is an unmet market need for easy Lower Zambezi river transfers between Zam and Zim!
steeliejim - the cellphone reference was found on expertafrica's website under the guest comments from someone who stayed at LRL in September. Thanks again for the tip on the direct Jekki-Mfuwe transfer - this isn't something that seems to be widely known and I know I am really happy about it!
steeliejim - the cellphone reference was found on expertafrica's website under the guest comments from someone who stayed at LRL in September. Thanks again for the tip on the direct Jekki-Mfuwe transfer - this isn't something that seems to be widely known and I know I am really happy about it!
