carl170

Hello,

I've been reading this forum for awhile and gathering information for my first safari. Here's the first itinerary that came up. I welcome any comments/suggestions. I have two main questions about this. Is it a mistake to skip Amboseli park? And is the access to Ngongoro Crater really that much better at the Sopa versus the Serena lodge?

Here is what we have right now:

1 night Norfolk Hotel
fly to Masai Mara
3 nights Kichwa Tembo Camp
fly to Lake Manyara
1 night Lake Manyara Serena Lodge
drive to Ngorongoro
2 nights Ngorongoro Serena Lodge
drive to Serengeti
3 nights Mbuzi Mawe Camp

Thanks,
Carl

Bill_H

<b>2 nights Ngorongoro Serena Lodge ...
is the access to Ngongoro Crater really that much better at the Sopa versus the Serena lodge?</b>

From the Sopa you have a short drive (~ 5 minutes) to the ascent/descent road and then it's a well-graded two-way road to the floor, takes maybe 15-20 minutes to get down, a bit longer to come back up for the driver we used.

From the Serena it's about an hour to the crater floor from the lodge, we just did this a few weeks ago after having lunch at the Serena (seems like the descent road is about 20+ minutes from the lodge, then the road down is very steep). To come back up you take a different road that's also very steep and then you are another 20+ minutes from the Serena the other direction.

If you are only going to make one game drive then it makes sense to stay at the Serena, which is a nicer lodge. If you are going multiple days and are willing to descend early each day then the Sopa makes more sense to me.

Note that from the Sopa side there are no other lodges using this road. From the Serena side all the other rim lodges (Wildlife and Crater Lodge plus smaller ones) use the same road, plus most of the traffic from lodges near Karatu and people in transit from Serengeti will use the road near Serena, which tends to place many more jeeps in that area initially (by mid-day they have spread out).

Personally we either skip the crater entirely (like last April in the rainy season) or stay 3 nights (like our trips in January) and are always descending at 6 AM so Sopa makes the most sense for us. If staying only one night I'd prefer Serena.

You are there two nights so that would I guess be a toss-up

Bill

atravelynn

Bill gave you a great comparison on Sopa vs. Serena. You could also compare the cost of those 2 options. I found Sopa to be very nice, though I've never stayed at Serena.

To answer if it is a mistake to skip Amboseli, I would not say it is a mistake, but if it fits in easily, then it would make a nice additon. Don't break your budget to include it. You will have good elephant viewing in the Mara so Amboseli is not your only chance at eles.

What month are you going?

aby

Karibu Carl

I think it's a mistake not to be in Samburu !!!
IMO The (million) &quot;flamingo show&quot; in Nakuru/Bogoria is superior to the L. Manyara experience (at least once to a novice)

WHEN? You haven't specifies when r u going - it does have its significance.

<b>Ngorongoro road </b>
the main point is that most people don't like the HORDES (of cars &amp; people)in the Caldera or so called &quot;crater&quot
A chance to avoid it, is the Sopa road:
{i think a few words r missing to stress Bill's explanation}
since 1. You can get down earlier
2. as Bill explained there are far less cars descending on this road
(&amp; again the earlier is even better!)
<font color="red"> which means that you may have a couple of hours of &quot;Mercy&quot; on the caldera's floor </font>

aby

aby

oops - specifie<b>d</b>

sandi

When are you traveling? Month? That can determinne whether Amboseli or Samburu can be an option over the Serengeti. Or Tarangire over Manyara in Tanzania.

aby

IMO - i'd recommend
A) Samburu is so unique, i'd prefer it anytime of year
(&amp; Samburu is my main recommendation)
B) a night-viewing-lodge e.g. Ark/Mt. Lodge
C) L.Baringo / L. Naivasha with their totally different experience/activities

L. Manyara ? if u r an ornithologist &amp; have heard about ~490spp (the number of bird species a British birdwatcher sees in a lifetime) or if u r keen on plant ecology and must see the &quot;groundwater forest&quot; or just have an urge to photograph the blue monkey - then visit Manyara

Bill - couldn't really follow you on the 1 night at Ngorongoro Serena (??)

aby

siro

Bill - Is it possible to ascent at Sopa? I don't know exactly where I heard, but I got the impression that the Sopa road was only for descent..

Siro

Bill_H

<b>Bill - Is it possible to ascent at Sopa?</b>

Yes, that road is wide and well-graded and open for both descent and ascent.

The roads on the other side are much steeper and narrower so one is used only for descent (near Serena), the other for ascent.

<b>I got the impression that the Sopa road was only for descent</b>

Possibly the source of this got Sopa and Serena mixed up?

Bill

carl170

RE: My Travel season

I'll probably be travelling in August or September when the migration could be either in the Mara or Northern Serengeti, so I wanted to plan to spend time in both parks.

Thanks for your help.

aby

Aug &amp; Sept Mara is the place
don't count on migration in Serengeti

atravelynn

I'd opt for Mara over Serengeti at that time of year.

carl170

Thanks everyone.

How about July/August Would there be non-migratory animals to see in the Serengeti?

What makes Samburu so unique? I hadn't considered it because it seemed further away. The other parks seemed to make a nice loop.

L. Manyara. I think this was included just to break up what would otherwise be a super long travel day. It sounds pretty and the tree climbing lions sound interesting.

Thanks again,
Carl

Patty

What makes Samburu unique are the species which are not seen or not commonly seen in southern Kenya/northern Tanzania - Grevy's zebra, reticulated giraffe, Somali ostrich, gerenuk, Beisa oryx. These species are, of course, not confined to Samburu alone, but can be found in other northern Kenya parks as well.

sandi

To spend time in the Serengeti in Aug/Sept, best place to be would be the northern Serengeti, close to the border for spill-over of game from the Mara. Otherwise, 3days in the Serengeti during that time is a bit much. I'd add one of these days to the Masai Mara.

In fact, I'd skip the Serengeti altogether, rather visit Samburu or Amboseli.

Day 1 - NBO - Norfolk
Day 2 - Fly to Samburu
Day 3 - Samburu
Day 4 - Fly to Masai Mara
Day 5, 6 &amp; 7 - Masai Mara
Day 8 - Fly to NBO; connect to JRO, drive to Lake Manyara
Day 8 - Ngorongoro Crater
Day 9 - Ngorongoro Crater
Day 10 - Drive to Arusha/Kili depart for home from here or fly to NBO.

atravelynn

&quot;How about July/August Would there be non-migratory animals to see in the Serengeti?&quot;

Central Serengeti has animals all the time due to available water.

Here are a few links on the migration in Tanzania.

http://www.go-safari.com/Serengeti/serengeti.htm
http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/lodges/serengeti.html
http://safari.go2africa.com/africa-f...y-november.asp

Besides those unique species mentioned, Samburu is #2 in Kenya, behind the Mara, for wildlife (according to the guides I've talked with). It is the best place in Kenya to see leopard.

Lake Manyara--It has some of the best out of the water hippo action I've seen at the hippo pool. I saw more blue (sometimes called black) monkeys here than anywhere else. Really relaxed baboons too. Decent elephants. Don't count on the tree climbing lions as seeing them is a rare treat.

Post your whole itinerary again, with any changes made and more specific comments can be made.

carl170

Thanks for your comments everyone.

I'm looking into adding two days in Samburu. Though I'm a little worried that this will be too much running around and going to too many parks, (5 parks, 7 changes of hotel/lodge/camp). I don't think I want to completely cut out the Serengeti. It still sounds like we'll be able to see animals there even if the migration has already passed through. Maybe it will be less crowded there.

If we don't end up going to Samburu, I might add another day in the Masai Mara for 3 full days there. Going to Amboselli doesn't fit well with this itinerary.

I asked about night viewing and was told that we would be able to do some night viewing at Kichwa Tembo in the Mara.

Taragire is a bit further away, which means a longer drive there and onward. Going to Manyara will give us a chance to see one of the rift valley lakes. I understand Manyara won't be at it's peak, but one chart I saw still rated it as good for that time of year (July/Aug) rather than excellent, which still sounds well, good.

In Ngorongoro Crater, we only drive down into the crater one day, so I think we will stick with the Serena Lodge. Hopefully we can drive to a less crowded part of the park for part of the day.

I haven't made any changes yet, but then we are still planning for right now.

Thanks again,
Carl

carl170

Hi again,

I wanted to just list the parks I'm thinking of visiting, for how long and tell you all what my expectations are. Please let me know if I'm wrong about any of this. I'm not counting travel days for now. Again this would be in August.

Samburu - possibly 1 day - I'd love to see a leopard somwhere but in only one day it seems unlikely. I know the reticualted giraffe looks different but I'm not sure how the zebra, ostrich and antelope would be different from the other parks

Masai Mara - 2 days, maybe 3 - the migration, could I possibly miss it if I'm only there 2 days

Tarangire - thinking about adding it - is this the place to see large herds of elephants?

Manyara - 1/2 day - flamingoes, hippos, birds, monkeys, lake scenery, less dust than the other parks

Ngorongoro - 1/2 day - lots of animals and lots of tourists

Central Serengeti - 2 days - big cats, other predators and other non-migratory animals

Does that sound about right? I think Samburu won't fit in with my time/budget constraints, but based on your comments I'm leaning toward an extra day in the Masai Mara and adding a visit to Tarangire.

Thanks again,
Carl

atravelynn

<b>Samburu - possibly 1 day.</b> If you cannot stay 2 nights, don't go. If you figure one full day in the park because you arrive Day 1, game view Day 2, leave Day 3, then great, go for it. All the different northern species closely resemble their more southern counterparts. It is not as if you are seeing whole new animals, but the contrast is interesting from a biological standpoint. You probably would see a leopard if you stayed at one of the lodges that baits for leopard. Those are the less expensive ones.

If no Samburu means another day in the Mara and Tarangire, that's a fine tradeoff.

<b>Masai Mara - 2 days, maybe 3 - the migration, could I possibly miss it if I'm only there 2 days</b>
You will see huge herds, whether it's the bulk of the migration or not, if you are there two days. A third day is desirable because this is such a game rich area (cheetah, lions, elephant, giraffe, various antelope), not because you'd need another day to track down the migration. Four days would not be too much.

<b>Tarangire </b> You would likely see nice herds of elephants in August plus other animals. You would want 2 nights here.

<b>Manyara - 1/2 day</b>A one night stay here is customary. In Aug, I think the dust is about the same as anywhere else, as I recall. I did not see flamingos in August. But you are right about the other wildlife. Of course, most of that is present elsewhere. Only the blue/black monkeys were a species I saw mainly in Manyara (also briefly at a lodge at the crater where they swung by once a week.)

To accomplish what you want on your trip if Manyara had to be sacrificed in August, it would be ok.

<b>Ngorongoro - 1/2 day </b> A half day visit would allow you to see lots of animals. One night at the crater is fine.

<b>Central Serengeti - 2 days,</b> You are right about the animals there.

Patty

I agree that you wouldn't want to go all the way to Samburu if it's just for an overnight. If you do go there, you'll likely see large herds of elephants here too.

You're chances of seeing leopard as well as other big cats are also good in the Mara.