About to fork over $15,500 for Safari, is this reasonable?
Sep 30th, 2005, 09:45 AM
#61
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Rocco,
I don't see anything wrong with spending $15 on a safari either. But in this case the OP would've spent $15.5K on an identical safari that was easily available for almost $4K less. I don't believe that $4K difference was for the benefit of Africa.
I don't see anything wrong with spending $15 on a safari either. But in this case the OP would've spent $15.5K on an identical safari that was easily available for almost $4K less. I don't believe that $4K difference was for the benefit of Africa.
Sep 30th, 2005, 09:54 AM
#63
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Patt, I don't have any problems spending $15 on safari either, although I'd really have to wonder about the quality.
bat, yes admiration is fine, but so ephemeral. I was really hoping for The Vest. Although I don't have anything to put in all those pockets other than M&Ms.
Congrats, bugswife. I'm glad you found something to your taste for a more reasonable price.
bat, yes admiration is fine, but so ephemeral. I was really hoping for The Vest. Although I don't have anything to put in all those pockets other than M&Ms.
Congrats, bugswife. I'm glad you found something to your taste for a more reasonable price.
Sep 30th, 2005, 10:49 AM
#64
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Please, folks! I'm just an academic (a historian) who knows nothing about books from the Christian right, but happens to think that $15,500 for this trip is too expensive (heavens! the people have to buy their meals on Zanzibar in addition to the base cost). I was in Mfuwe less than a year ago and I agree that the prosperity of the area is impressive, thanks in large part to the safari industry. No one has mentioned, though, how much of the money really ends up in UK or USA bank accounts of the safari owners. That's a deeper issue beyond the scope of this discussion. ZZ
Sep 30th, 2005, 11:04 AM
#65
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ZZ,
While true that some of the money ends up back in UK and USA bank accounts, I would hate to think where the wildlife would be in Zambia and elsewhere if not for ecotourism, and, yech, even trophy hunting.
While true that some of the money ends up back in UK and USA bank accounts, I would hate to think where the wildlife would be in Zambia and elsewhere if not for ecotourism, and, yech, even trophy hunting.
Sep 30th, 2005, 11:51 AM
#66
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Interesting comment, Zambezi.
I don’t doubt that the people of Mfuwe are extremely happy to have the safari industry - and that’s essential for wildlife. But, if they are anything like the rest of the human species, their feelings towards the tourists and companies must be VERY mixed.
To fork out fantasy sums on safaris is better than collecting money in a heap so that your children and their children will be born with power over people with less money and never have to bother about the problems of the “real” world. But, many people, even in Western countries, can’t travel anywhere and, especially at a moment when rules are being bent more and more in favour of people with money, this kind of extravagances could make the majority speak out clearly that they don’t feel like being “horse-shit-eating sparrows”.
(I couldn’t find a smiley with a Molotov cocktail, so I took a red devil)
Safari njema, Bugswife1
I don’t doubt that the people of Mfuwe are extremely happy to have the safari industry - and that’s essential for wildlife. But, if they are anything like the rest of the human species, their feelings towards the tourists and companies must be VERY mixed.
To fork out fantasy sums on safaris is better than collecting money in a heap so that your children and their children will be born with power over people with less money and never have to bother about the problems of the “real” world. But, many people, even in Western countries, can’t travel anywhere and, especially at a moment when rules are being bent more and more in favour of people with money, this kind of extravagances could make the majority speak out clearly that they don’t feel like being “horse-shit-eating sparrows”.
(I couldn’t find a smiley with a Molotov cocktail, so I took a red devil)Safari njema, Bugswife1
Oct 1st, 2005, 03:53 AM
#67
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So, yesterday I forwarded the Serendipity itinerary to AAC. I really didn't expect a reply since I have been going back and forth with him for 2 months and I figured he would just say _____ you, and move on. Instead, he thanked me and asked for the weekend to look into it and see what he could do. So, more updates on Monday, but I really don't believe he will be able to touch the other price. And if I didn't say it before, I really owe you all a big 'thanks'!
Oct 4th, 2005, 10:59 AM
#68
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So, over the weekend, Serendipity comes up with a confirmation at all the places I wanted. Told them I would get back to them by Wednesday.
Still waiting for an answer from AAC for a concrete reason as to why their price is $4K higher. As soon as I know, so will you. Meanwhile, $4K will buy a nice piece of jewelry on my trip : - )
Still waiting for an answer from AAC for a concrete reason as to why their price is $4K higher. As soon as I know, so will you. Meanwhile, $4K will buy a nice piece of jewelry on my trip : - )
Oct 4th, 2005, 03:26 PM
#69
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Nyamera,
Hate to break it to you, but there are probably more disenfranchised people that vote to keep the current powers-that-be in power than there are disenfranchised people that are ready to stand up and demand change. Unfortunately, people are VERY easily manipulated.
As a result, I have found that apathy is a very good solution. I do what is best for myself, my loved ones (including my 10 dogs) and the African wildlife and don't sweat the rest of the stuff. As long as I am allowed to make an adequate income to support my passions, I am not going to make too many waves.
Hate to break it to you, but there are probably more disenfranchised people that vote to keep the current powers-that-be in power than there are disenfranchised people that are ready to stand up and demand change. Unfortunately, people are VERY easily manipulated.
As a result, I have found that apathy is a very good solution. I do what is best for myself, my loved ones (including my 10 dogs) and the African wildlife and don't sweat the rest of the stuff. As long as I am allowed to make an adequate income to support my passions, I am not going to make too many waves.
Oct 5th, 2005, 07:26 AM
#71
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Rocco,
I hope Zambezi and not you are right though evidence speaks in your favour. It even seems as if there are more disenfranchised people who want to do what’s best for themselves through burglary and highway robbery than who want to stand up and demand change. I don’t make that many waves either and only give passive support to the ones that do stand up. But I am thinking, only thinking, about becoming more active. I’d say that when you’re closer to becoming disenfranchised yourself you feel a bigger urge to do something, but there are many people who only become more willing to lick upwards and kick downwards. I hope that making an adequate income to support my passions wouldn’t anaesthetise me, but it’d be difficult to find out even if my passions weren’t unmeasured. I’ve got only one cat though.
I hope Zambezi and not you are right though evidence speaks in your favour. It even seems as if there are more disenfranchised people who want to do what’s best for themselves through burglary and highway robbery than who want to stand up and demand change. I don’t make that many waves either and only give passive support to the ones that do stand up. But I am thinking, only thinking, about becoming more active. I’d say that when you’re closer to becoming disenfranchised yourself you feel a bigger urge to do something, but there are many people who only become more willing to lick upwards and kick downwards. I hope that making an adequate income to support my passions wouldn’t anaesthetise me, but it’d be difficult to find out even if my passions weren’t unmeasured. I’ve got only one cat though.
Oct 5th, 2005, 09:12 AM
#72
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Nyamera,
It just boggles my mind. I am FAR from disenfranchised yet I would never vote to keep the current administration in power and very grudgingly voted for John Kerry in the last election (although I will not vote again in the future for an administration that I do not truly believe in).
The fact that probably 95% of the people that voted to keep the current administration in place are more disenfranchised than I am is a very sad statement. Why would they want more of the same? Do people really have such low expectations? Hmmmm.
It just boggles my mind. I am FAR from disenfranchised yet I would never vote to keep the current administration in power and very grudgingly voted for John Kerry in the last election (although I will not vote again in the future for an administration that I do not truly believe in).
The fact that probably 95% of the people that voted to keep the current administration in place are more disenfranchised than I am is a very sad statement. Why would they want more of the same? Do people really have such low expectations? Hmmmm.
Oct 5th, 2005, 09:48 AM
#73
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Rocco,
Anecdotal: I have an aged relative who lives entirely off her deceased husband's social security, and that is very, very little money. Guess who she voted for??? I asked her why and she replied "Oh, I don't know, I just think we'll be safer."
I consider myself only partially anesthetized, and that's necessary to preserve some sanity and to prevent me from gnashing my teeth and slapping my forehead in utter disbelief.
Um, but back to African travel. I'm glad you found a safari for considrably less money bugswife. And agree with cooncat: save the "extra" for the next time.
Anecdotal: I have an aged relative who lives entirely off her deceased husband's social security, and that is very, very little money. Guess who she voted for??? I asked her why and she replied "Oh, I don't know, I just think we'll be safer."
I consider myself only partially anesthetized, and that's necessary to preserve some sanity and to prevent me from gnashing my teeth and slapping my forehead in utter disbelief.
Um, but back to African travel. I'm glad you found a safari for considrably less money bugswife. And agree with cooncat: save the "extra" for the next time.
Oct 5th, 2005, 10:11 AM
#74
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Rocco,
Why don’t you vote for Ralph Nader? I’m not American, but from what I’ve heard he must be a better alternative.
Bugswife1,
This is still a bit off topic, but $4K is more than I spent on three weeks in Kenya including international flights. You’ll need to go back so, like Cooncat and Leely I say: save it for your next trip.
Why don’t you vote for Ralph Nader? I’m not American, but from what I’ve heard he must be a better alternative.
Bugswife1,
This is still a bit off topic, but $4K is more than I spent on three weeks in Kenya including international flights. You’ll need to go back so, like Cooncat and Leely I say: save it for your next trip.
Oct 5th, 2005, 10:30 AM
#75
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This thread seems to have taken a sudden turn 
Nyamera,
I could tell you why I wouldn't vote for Nader but this is probably not the best forum to do so
I know where I'd spend that extra $4K too.
bugswife,
I'm glad you were able to get confirmation for all of your accomodations. Did you hear anything back from AAC? Hope you have a great trip and don't forget to report back when you return.
Nyamera,
I could tell you why I wouldn't vote for Nader but this is probably not the best forum to do so
I know where I'd spend that extra $4K too.bugswife,
I'm glad you were able to get confirmation for all of your accomodations. Did you hear anything back from AAC? Hope you have a great trip and don't forget to report back when you return.
Oct 5th, 2005, 10:48 AM
#76
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Nyamera,
We have a most unfortunate expression in the US: "hold your nose and vote." Sadly, I've done it far too often. So when people in the US wonder why the citizens in other countries don't try to change their political culture, I think it may be that they may be facing similar bad choices (or no realistic choice at all).
We have a most unfortunate expression in the US: "hold your nose and vote." Sadly, I've done it far too often. So when people in the US wonder why the citizens in other countries don't try to change their political culture, I think it may be that they may be facing similar bad choices (or no realistic choice at all).
Oct 5th, 2005, 11:06 AM
#77
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continuing off topic: Re 3rd parties in the U.S--we have "winner take all" elections so unlike some European countries where if a 3rd party polls 10% in the national election, they get 10% of the national reps.; not so here. Makes it difficult for 3rd parties to be more than mere "spoilers."
Oct 5th, 2005, 02:40 PM
#78
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how in the heck did this get political? Was it all that talk of elephants?
Heard back from AAC. Wrote some lame email about how his guides are more thorough and have the most expertise. Also added that Serendipity did not say that drinks in the 4 x 4's are included & that one day we have a box lunch instead of lunch at Sopa. Funny. Even if I had to pay for my lunch and drank $100 worth of water a day, I would still come out $3000 ahead! Asked AAC who they use for their guides. This should be interesting.
Heard back from AAC. Wrote some lame email about how his guides are more thorough and have the most expertise. Also added that Serendipity did not say that drinks in the 4 x 4's are included & that one day we have a box lunch instead of lunch at Sopa. Funny. Even if I had to pay for my lunch and drank $100 worth of water a day, I would still come out $3000 ahead! Asked AAC who they use for their guides. This should be interesting.
Oct 5th, 2005, 05:37 PM
#79
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AAC has no excuse. The reason that their price is $4,000 higher is likely b/c they farm out part, if not all, of their tour, and they add a mark-up.
They had better be serving chilled Dom Perignon and lobsters for lunch to justify their silly price.
How in the world do they know their guides are "more thorough" -- that's a meaningless statement. What, do their guides stop at every lion pride while others skip a few. I'm sure their guides are excellent, just no more excellent than the guides at other companies.
They are not being candid or honest with their nonsensical response.
They had better be serving chilled Dom Perignon and lobsters for lunch to justify their silly price.
How in the world do they know their guides are "more thorough" -- that's a meaningless statement. What, do their guides stop at every lion pride while others skip a few. I'm sure their guides are excellent, just no more excellent than the guides at other companies.
They are not being candid or honest with their nonsensical response.
Oct 6th, 2005, 09:36 AM
#80
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just got a call from AAC. They claim that their guides and vehicles are far superior to those used by companies like Roys. Roys is the guide that Serendipity is using. Now I am really confused.
