Hi
After some great feedback from my previous Kenya posts, and some recent changes in availability, I have two potential itineraries for Kenya in june. I am trying to include two Cheli & Peacock properties to take advantage of discounts. Wildlife photography is the primary focus. After that would be unique and different locales/experiences. (ie night drives, walks etc)

Original:
June 2,3 NBO (TBD-House of Waine, Palencina Suites or Holiday Inn if we need to cut costs)
June 4,5,6 Loisaba Lodge in Laikipia. One night Star Bed
June 7,8,9 Saruni Samburu
June 10,11,12,13 Bateleur Camp MM
June 14-Bye Bye Africa!

However after many comments about including Lewa and some changes to thier availability calendar, we could now do this:

June 2 NBO
June 3,4, 5 Lewa Safari Camp
June 6,7,8 Loisaba or Saruni (Any thoughts here?)
june 9,10,11, 12 Bateleur
June 13 NBO
June 14 Bye Bye

I am certainly now leaning towards itinerary two, including Lewa, but not sure of the middle. I also am starting to like NBO at the end as our flight the 14th is late so we will have 2 days to relax and visit some sights. And shop. ;-)

This is our 6th country we will be visiting and so we have been blessed with seeing a lot of extraordinary things. I know either of these will be great, but if you have thoughts, feel free.
Very attracted to the Star Beds at Loisaba, but maybe game is better in Samburu?

Thanks again to everyone on the last thread-that was a great learning. My goal is to lock thing down before 2010! ;-)

cheers,
Nancie

Lewa, Saruni, Bateleur would be my choice.

I think Lewa (where I've been and loved) and Loisaba (where I've never been) would be very similar. When you include Samburu, you have different species in relative abundance that you are likely to see. Plus a different terrain and the 2nd best wildlife destination in Kenya, next to the Mara.

If the goal is photography, you could probably save some $ in Samburu with a different location, such as Serena. But that would not have the same ambiance as Saruni.

Looks like a good trip whatever you decide on!

Lynn-I am feeling exactly that. I considered doing 2 nights at all 3, but like to sit still a little.
And elephants are a favorite-which I understand Samburu has in good numbers.

thanks!

I would not do 2 nts at all 3. There was someone not long ago who stated they liked checking out camp loos and experiencing a variety of accommodations, so maybe they would like that 2-night arrangement.

Have a great time!

Well it generally takes me until night three to be able to find the loo in the dark without bruising my shin or stubbing my toe, so 2 night stays would be too hazardous. ;-)

I would second Lynn and go for option 2 and include the House of Waine if the budget allowed as it was a wonderfully peaceful, beautiful place to stay and near lots of tourist attractions.

Thank you Eugene. Yes I have very good consultants who have managed my safaris in 5 other countries. Thanks for your insights on Loisaba.

nj

First itinerary looks very good to me!

Whatever you choose:

Make certain the new fashion "check out" rules don't interfere with your interests or change venue.

Most - or many! - camps now request the tent to be vacated by 10am and some camps even request that you leave by 10am - under no circumstance a late check out allowed.

When departing from Loisaba to the Mara it won't cause inconvenience. But from MM to Wilson it most probably has an impact.

Nairobi day rooms must be vacated by 06pm - so that's also not of great help.

If you must leave Massai Mara e.g. on the morning service to Wilson you have a whole day to kill prior to your flight.

Just in case you didn't realise or it hasn't been mentioned by the TA/TO.

Happy planning!

SV

SV, don't some camps allow later check out for a fee? And if so, do you happen to know which ones will not under any circumstances? Could be a dealbreaker for me.

Nancie, have a great safari! Our paths may cross at NBO on the 13th. I'm flying to Kigali that day.

Leely
Many Cheli+Peacock camps state 10.00am check out. For Samburu or Laikipia camps it's not a problem because the flights leave for the Mara e.g. in the morning. But for Massai Mara camps it becomes tricky AND expensive!
It's not that they charge only for extra lunch in order to cover their costs or make an extra $. When guests vacate their tents before check out time and stay in camp until 1500hrs and pay for extra lunch what kind of costs do they cause to justify the 25% surcharge?
Hospitality at its worst.

The additional 25% sum up easily to 300US$/couple PLUS 30-40US$ for the extra lunch.

I have not each and every camp info. I just found out by checking availability and terms for late 2010.

As you say: a dealbreaker. Under these circumstances I won't consider Kenya anymore. It's getting showing the camp owner's greed too obviously to ignore and I don't want to become the individual which causes them a big laugh.

Even if you were willing to pay a surcharge. E.g. Sarara camp says: NO late departures!
#
Elephant Pepper says 25% surcharge
Saruni is 25 % surcharge
Cottare's 25 % surcharge

Transfers to balloon launch site between 110 and 130US$pp plus 450 ballooning.

It's pi$$ing me off.

SV

Leely
Just to get it straight: It's not "depending on occupancy". It's in ANY case.

All the above and then comes a statement by an American TA which doesn't support the idea to travel to Kenya at all.

Scroll down to Kenya:

http://www.ultimateafrica.com/travel...s_ratings.html

I doubt these guys in Kenya have a clue how people see the destination outside of Kenya ;-)

SV

The reason some of the small camps charge a surcharge for late departure is because they have to take a guide/driver and vehicle out of use for other guests to transfer these guests to the airstrip.

Assume your daily rate is $1000/couple - 25% = $250 + $30-40/lunch.

Seems alot, but if departing on the 11am flight and having a dayroom, that cost can easily be $250 or more. Taking the 4pm flight, you arrive NBO 5-5:30pm, and head to the airport. Or if you've pre-arranged can visit Sheldrick Orphanage to see your adopted chubbie and have dinner, or just dinner and then to airport.

In the case of Cottar's that SV shows above, if guests using the Keekorok (rather than nearby private/charter airstrip) is minimum 2+/hrs drive each way.

Though most day-room check-outs are 6pm, it's not unusual that some hotels allow for later.

As example: small camps of 8 (or less) /tents and only 4/vehicles, means that vehicles for remaining guests will have to for game drives accommodate more paxs than the usual "only 4/paxs."

It's much the same for those camps that charge a transfer fee to the balloon lift-off site. Not all the companies conducting this activity will do the transfer or require a minimum #/pax to do so, the camp has to again take a guide/driver/vehicle out of commission for very early 4-5am transfer to site and wait till after the breakfast to return guests to camp which is a game drive.

The transfer fee to balloon sites is "per vehicle" not per person. So if 2/paxs = $50-60.

I think the Ultimate Africa report on safaris in Kenya is rather biased and selective.

"(Kenya is home to over 35 million people while Botswana (which is nearly the same size) is home to less than 1.5 million people)" Is just a silly comparison. How much of Botswana is arable, quality land and how much inhospitable arid conditions. Yes, Kenya has a larger population but this is not comparing apples with apples.

Many of the statistics on wildlife they are quoting are years out of date.
"For example, Kenya's elephant population dropped by 85%, to approximately 20,000, between 1975 and 1990." That is almost 20 years ago and in the intervening years much has been done to reduce poaching and recover populations. And if the numbers have continued to drop, then the quotes should reflect that.

And again "Wildebeest numbers fell 81% from 119,000 in 1977 to 22,000 in 1997." but they proclaim the high wildebeest numbers in Tanzania. Perhaps the wildebeest stop at the border with Kenya now and don't migrate?

If they just wanted to fuss about the tourist numbers being excessive, then that is fine. They don't mention the big changes in the surrounding conservation areas of the greater Mara district which have low tourist numbers and great wildlife viewing.

As far as the late check out is concerned, I am catching the afternoon flight out of Serian and don't recall any surcharge for a late check out and extra lunch.

SV

You are mistaken about the 'automatic' late check out charge in Kenya. On my past three visits I have caught the afternoon flight back to Nairobi from the Mara and was never charged for the privilege.

Phil

Philw, did you stay at a different places than those mentioned? It probably differs depending on the location. The ones mentioned seemed to be more upscale.

Twaffle's comments on Ultimate Africa reminded me that in the past I also noticed Ultimate Africa's slam of Kenya. I found those comments and copied them here, but must will qualify the "zoo in the Mara" business has fortunately been halted.

<i>...but since you mentioned Ultimate Africa, I’ll state what has concerned me about them. If a potential client is considering booking Kenya with them, they don’t do Kenya. That’s fine, some companies specialize in only Southern Africa or just Tanzania or just Uganda/Rwanda or whatever. But here is what their site says, and has for several years.

“Due to quality (declining wildlife) and safety concerns (US travel warning) Ultimate Africa is not entertaining new bookings to Kenya at this time.”

With the recent articles about the Mara’s decline and the possible zoo there, one might say Ultimate Africa is prophetic and right on the money. But even so, Kenya has some of the most wildlife and greatest diversity of wildlife at the lowest cost for the tourist of anywhere in Africa in which a guided/escorted safari is undertaken. Granted, if you want seclusion and nobody else looking at the wildlife with you, Kenya may not be the place for you. At least not at the low cost.

It just seems like a decision to not book Kenya is taken one step further to denigrate the whole country, thereby bolstering the destinations Ultimate Africa does serve. Upon reading their declaration about Kenya, my thought was, “So the margins for Kenya are not to their liking and they explain their business decision not to book Kenya as a safety and quality control issue.”

Wasn’t there just a comment on one of the threads about some agents promoting locations for personal/corporate gain? The negative Kenya stuff on the Ultimate Africa site has always smacked of that to me.

If this is just me being too cynical and I am all wrong, I’d like to know. I have nothing against Ultimate Africa and am not trying to stir anything up. I just like to find out the truth and thought this was could be an opportunity. </i>

So...that would be itinerary 2 then? ;-)

Just read the Ultimate Africa comments re Kenya and my immediate thought they <i>"simply have decided not to handle this destination for whatever reason... certainly not as they state."</i> And as twaffle's comments, UA seems to prefer to cover their a$$ with gibberish.

As to the statistics shown... too old, and as for the elephant populations, even at Amboseli where when I first visited in '95 with 900, now have about 1200. And, yes from year-to-year the number of wildebeests do vary... more some years, less others... not all the millions of wildies make it into the Mara yearly and has been so for years. What difference does it make. Visitors can view the migration in the Northern Serengeti, if they can find accommodations at the few properties in the area.

And, trying to compare Kenya to Botswana is an exercise in futility. There is no comparison in more ways than population vs game/accommodations... rather it would be price as the most expensive destination. I suspect UA can't make the same profits in Kenya as in Botswana where rates and possible mark-ups would be greater for the low-impact (lodgings/tents) available.

UA should just remove "Kenya" from the list of countries they do book instead of their lame excuse. There are plenty other outfitters, tour operators, agencies and planners who will gladly take this business.

Yes, #2!

Thanks for your take on it Sandi. So it is not just me being too cynical.

Good thing I wasn't looking forward to the kenyan mokoro's...

Atravelynn

My afternoon flights back to Nairobi were from Cottars, Royal Mara and Mara Explorer - all fairly upmarket camps.

Phil