Liam

I have been reading this forum for some time and one common theme comes up now and again and it has to do with the prevalence of scams and pickpockets in Europe.

I work in a fairly large US city that has plenty of domestic and international tourists, but I can walk around and ride the subway with my wallet in my pocket or my iPhone in the side pocket of a bag and I never fear that anything I'm carrying will be lifted off me. Seriously, it's not something that ever really comes to mind.

I don't want to invite snide comments (Europeans insisting they'd be afraid of being shot in the US or Americans slagging off on European criminal justice systems), but I'm really very curious why there seem to be so many scams in Europe and so many thefts whereas such things are (relatively) unheard of here in the US.

Thoughts?

Challiman

While I don't have the experience of many Fodor's posters, I have been to Europe a fair number of times and so far have never had any kind of incident, no thefts, no pickpockets, no attempted scams, etc.
We are always aware of our surroundings, don't show lots of money or wear expensive jewelry.
I travel a lot with a group of women friends and we're always cautious, but nothing that interferes with our touring and sightseeing.
We also don't drink to excess, never displaying signs of vulnerability due to being intoxicated.
Maybe we've been lucky, or maybe it is because we drop from exhaustion and go to bed early.
I've also lived and traveled all over the US, same situation, a bit of caution goes a long way.
NOTE: I'm not saying others are careless or invite trouble. This is just our experience.

Seamus

Liam - not sure that there is so much less petty theft in the US, but it does get less attention. I have been pickpocketed twice, and both times were in the US (Orlando, NYC.)

kybourbon

How many languages are you fluent in? Than can be a factor when a group of pickpockets in a foreign country are standing by you chatting about how they are going to rip you off.

Another reason is most of the various governments overseas don't pursue petty theft. If hundreds of visitors to the US were being pickpocketed at major tourist venues in the US, then there would be an outcry on the 6 o'clock news and the city would attempt to put a stop to it.

travelerjan

Liam, do you live in New York City, Boston, Philadelphia or Washington? I name these because you reference subways.

Do you often see considerable numbers of tourists in groups, who are adults (not high school Senior trips), who are let's say middle-age or older, who are hung about with cameras and "day bags," and who don't seem to know where they are going? Or don't seem to know the language? Who are not walking purposefully, but instead standing gazing up at something?

I'll venture that these scenes are not as common in large US cities as they are in Europe, simply because the US just doesn't have the huge influx of tourists as Europe. And this type of tourist is the type most often targeted by professional pickpocketers or scammers... they are not aware of their surroundings, they are likely to carry cash, credit cards, cameras etc.

Most vulnerable are the "newbie" travelers who are not only new to Europe but unused to the "pedestrian style" of big city life in Europe OR in US big cities; they are creatures of the car and the mall, not used to sidewalk traffic, busses, trains or subways. You sound like a big-city kind of guy, so a scammer could tell at a glance that you are aware of your surroundings and not an ideal target.

You are mistaken that pickpocketing and scams are relatively rare in the US; if you want a comparison, you can get stats on this type of crime for the largest US cities that have a "street lifestyle" (not a "car lifestyle" like LA or Dallas), and I think you will find it's around.

Pegontheroad

There are places where I think pickpocketing is a real possiblity--among them, Italy and Spain. (Sorry, all you Italians and Spanish!) It can happen even if one is alert and aware of surroundings.

My sister had her purse stolen while we were having dinner in an outdoor restaurant in Barcelona. I've had people go for my purse in Madrid, and in Rome we had to fend off children who were up to no good. (We yelled at them when we saw what they were up to--hiding their hands under a piece of paper while making distracting noises at us.)

I don't feel as paranoid in other European countries, but I still keep my passport, credit cards and big money in my money belt no matter where I travel. It couldn't hurt.

I think I'm much more likely to be the victim of a crime in Spain, Italy, or France than I am at home. I live in a smallish city in the Northwest. It's very safe, unless you're involved in drugs, although if you leave your garage door unlocked at night, you're likely to be missing your chainsaw or your snowblower in the morning.

PatrickLondon

I behave exactly as Liam does, and I've never been pickpocketed, anywhere in Europe (or anywhere in the world).

It's partly a matter of perception: if you're on the trip of a lifetime, something like that ruins more than just another commuting trip to the office. And tourists are more likely to notice such things, not necessarily because they present obvious targets, but simply because they're out and about the whole day, where residents are mostly at home or at work or about ordinary daily business.

But different societies may well have different balances of risk and return from different sorts of crime, so that some crimes will be surprisingly frequent or infrequent to a visitor: indeed, that seems to be true within nation states, where there are all sorts of different criminal "micro-climates".

Dukey

I've been to Europe many times and had my pocket picked once, on the Barcelona Metro, and I was certainly not a "newbie" as some of the people are very clever. In this particular instance they didn't get much.

I am not convinced that Europe is any fuller of scams and pickpockets than anywhere else, INCLUDING the US.

On a travel board one would expect to hear MORE about such instances than in other venues...some topics are more "prevalent" here than others.

Such things are not "unheard of" in the US if you listen in the right places and that is my honest opinion.

If that seems snide to you then I'm sorry.

Ackislander

I think Dukey hits the nail right on the head:

"On a travel board one would expect to hear MORE about such instances than in other venues...some topics are more "prevalent" here than others."

People often don't bother to report petty crime unless passports or airline tickets are stolen and they need a police report for insurance purposes. Thus it is very difficult to have accurate statistics, here or abroad.

I would be pretty suprised if the rate of petty crime were much different in tourist cities here than in tourist cities elsewhere, though we are more on the alert for differences when everything is strange.

No one is going to post here about having their phone stolen from their car seat when they leave the windows down (I live in a heavily touristed town, and this is a very common crime). Do we bother to write about our bike (rented or personal) getting lifted? Also a very common crime here. Did you lose your camera or did someone pick it out of your tote when you were shopping? Most people wouldn't know, so they wouldn't post.

They also wouldn't bother to report the crime, so it is very difficult to have accurate statistics.

A gang of well dressed pickpockets were working Newbury Street in Boston about 18 months ago: same scam as in Europe -- lifting purses from the back of women's chairs in restaurants.

I have a sense that shoplifting is huge criminal issue here in the US (see the New Yorker for two weeks ago for a good article) but I never read about shoplifting here or abroad on a travel board, so I don't know what the comparative statistics are.

Keep your eyes open and your wits about you in Boston or Barcelona. No local would wear a hidden pouch under her clothing in Boston, but I won't put down a tourist who does. Bostonians know who is sketchy and tourists don't.

elberko

I suspect pickpocketing and other petty crimes are a concern in all cities. It tends to be a bigger problem if you are away from home to get important cards/papers replaced-that's the reason to be more careful.

You are also much more likely to be "aware of your surroundings" in you normal routine than when you are in unfamiliar places trying to take in all the wonders around you. Pickpockets know this-that's their business!

WE have not lost anything to pickpockets, but have had close encounters in Paris and Vienna, and have watched groups of young thiefs case the people on the Paris metro.

~Liz

bobthenavigator

Define Europe!
The problem is less in Helsinki than in Madrid.

artsnletters

I live in an urban college town that is also a suburb of a major US city. While pickpocketing isn't much of a problem where I live, robbery and assault are. The murder rate in the US isn't peanuts either.

Perhaps because violent crime is much less common in {most of?} Europe, there may be more awareness of petty crime. And as others have said, people don't usually start a thread to talk about how they visited Europe and <i>didn't</i> get ripped off. You only hear from those who were victims, not the vast majority who had no problems (even if they weren't taking precautions against pickpocketing).

Frankly, I'd be happy to trade our crime problems/rates with any European country, pickpocket &quot;problem&quot; or no.

GSteed

Philosophy. Pickpocketing is a business. Read Oliver Twist. Such thievery rarely causes injuies so police pay little attention to it. Few if any European city has enough police to cover all the criminal venues. Krakow had a train gang that I know operated for years there. Warszawa had another. I was tabbed getting on a train at Warszawa...a month later my wife and I were about to board the same train and I spotted the gang waiting for me! I pointed at them and said, &quot;Bandits!&quot;. They disappeared. What's the difference between a pickpocket getting your money and giving you nothing and the used car salesman selling you a known lemon? Email scams, stock and bond deals...Intercity busses are safer than intercity trains.

Sockman

Plan for the worst and hope for the best!

On a crowded bus or train, hold on dearly to your bags. Close them and keep them close. Use bread twist-ties to secure the zippers. Often the most popular routes are very crowded and this is the time to be alert. You are often shoulder to shoulder being tossed and jostled by the vehicle. It can happen in a moment and you will never feel it.

Once when we were in Rome, the crowded subway emptied but there was this girl who continued to stand beside me and would not give me my space. When I saw her hand trying to dig into my bag, I let out a roaring &quot;Nooooo&quot; that scasred our pary to death. But she was gone in a minute. We laughed after the emotion subsided.

Another time we were a party of 11 and kind of scattered out on a bus. I looked over to Grandma and told her to come closer and hang on to her bag...too late...her camera was gone.

We have had attempts when trying to get on a bus/train as the crowd surges and the theives work but move on afterwards.

Lastly, don't let an incident spoil your whole trip. Plan ahead and carry nothing not stored securely in your control. Best of luck!

Songdoc

First: I have no fear of being pickpocketed when I'm in major US cities (NY, LA, SF, Chicago ...) -- although I'm sure it could happen.

But luckily, I'd read posts about bands of children surrounding you and cleaning you out in specific areas of Rome. Luckily, DP and I decided to be &quot;over-cautious&quot; and we took every precaution -- including putting our watches and wallets in our front pockets -- and safety pinning them shut with two pins -- from the inside.

The small amount of cash that was not in our hidden money belts was in our shirt pockets -- again, safety pinned shut.

Sure enough ... it was exactly like I'd read. At the Trastevere (Rome) flea market, we were deluged by little children -- while their mothers held up newspapers, shielding us from the other tourists. (How sad.)

Those little hands tried to get into every pocket -- but were NOT successful because of our precautions. We literally had to shove them off of us -- while screaming for the police and &quot;Fire&quot; -- to attract attention.

I'm grateful I read the posts and saved a wonderful trip from being ruined by having cash, passports, watches, etc ... stolen.

Apparently, this is very common there -- and around the Colisseum area. The vendors barely paid attention -- and certainly made no attempt to help. We were really shaken up -- but it could have been so much worse.

Better to be safe than sorry.

nytraveler

&quot;Such things&quot; are not unheard of in the US.

Don;t know where you live but pickpocketing and other minor street crimes/scams are fairly frequent in tourist areas of many large cities.

Perhaps you don't frequent tourist areas - where these people hang out - but they defiitely are there.

A friend of mine (but a little ditzy) has had her wallet stolen 3 times in the subway. I've even seen a purse snatching in broad daylight in Greenwich CT - a bastion of upper class safety.

I think it's happening and you just don;t see/experience it.

ParadiseLost

I'm 54 most of the people I've known even vaguely over the years are Americans who holiday usually in the US or the Caribbean at tourist spots.

Add to that major sporting events, concerts, etc.

And I can only recall my boss's elderly mother being pickpocketed in a suburban shopping mall (her CC was used within minutes).

There were probably 1 or 2 others decades ago that I've forgotten like a friend of a friend but no one I know very well.

But in Italy within a decade; Myself 3 attempts (Naples, Rome, Florence), my travel agent was pickpocketed in Termini and a person from work (mob of gypsy children) and a small handful of people I've met on holiday in Italy (usually relating past experiences).

IMO the Italian Police are apathetic to pickpockets.

If your beat day after day is in a train station and you don't notice the *same characters* with no luggage, hanging around eyeballing the passers-by looking for a target, then either you don't care or you are incompetent.

At high-profile tourist sites undercover cops as a male/female tourist couple complete with guidebooks and a camera could work wonders.
They could blend-in and look for those who didn't blend-in by their actions and focus on them.

The same could also go for the buses and metro which would be a bit harder with the sardine-packed crowds but not impossible.

Increase the penalties (which I believe are lax in Italy?) and really hit hard the repeat offenders with jail time.

And if they cannot show other means of support besides criminal activies confiscate any *luxury* items they own (car/motorcycle, jewerly, electronics, etc).

And if they are using their children, hold the parents legally responsible after a 2nd offense.

And if it sounds harsh just think how many 1000's of persons they will steal from in the course of their career.
Regards, Walter

kleeblatt

Hi Paradise,

I agree harsher measures should be taken but really, what can the police do?
Fine them? (They have no money)
Confiscate? (They'll steal another item to make up for the one lost)
Put them in jail? (They don't do that with petty crime or it's a short sentence)
Send them back to their country? (That costs government taxes AND they usually come back anyway)

I agree that more money should be used to hire more police. If only the local government would see it that way.

chicagolori

Hmmm. I live in downtown Chicago and we have plenty of scams and pickpockets/theft schemes.

One well known one which I almost fell prey to ..

Car pulled over to the side of road, driver waving to others pretending to be almost out of gas, forgot their wallet and asks for cash... there are several like that.

Also - in the loop, identity theives dress as business men and pickpocket wallets. Have vans parked downtown where they immediately recreate credit cards or ids ... especially in the summer when people eat outside for lunch.

Not sure its as targeted here at obvious tourists but its here and happens often enough for my taste. -

clairobscur

I've been living in Paris for 28 years and not only I never had been victim of a pickpocket, but I don't even know someone who has. Maybe there are more pickpockets here than in a large US city, or maybe not.

But fact is : they overwhelmingly target tourists, not locals. For plenty of reasons :

-The tourist finds himself in a strange place, and won't notice as easily as the local an unusual or abnormal behaviour (especially so if say tourist doesn't live in a large city hence generally less cautious). Easier target.

- The tourist is distracted, searching his way around, taking pictures, gawking at monuments. The local is in a hurry because he's late for work or something. Easier target.

-The tourist often won't complain to the police or bring charges, the local often will. The items or documents taken from the tourist won't be declared as stolen. Less risk.

-And more importantly, locals don't carry around a lot of money, a couple cameras and so on. At best, a pickpocket targeting him would walk away with &euro;50. Not really worth it.

So, like you, I &quot;walk around and ride the subway with my wallet in my pocket or my iPhone (well in the side pocket of a bag and I never fear that anything I'm carrying will be lifted off me&quot;.


That said, it's true, according to statistics, that there are more petty crimes in Europe than in the USA (and also more burglaries, theft, etc...What we don't have are violent crimes and specifically murder).