cslasor

Now that my 2015 vacation is planned, booked, and (mostly) paid for, it's time to start planning for 2016. DH and I would love to take a long-anticipated trip to visit Grand Teton, Yellowstone, and Glacier NPs and I know the hotels in the parks fill up immediately so I want to get the plans ready so I can jump on the phone as soon as the rooms become available. But I would like to find out if those of you familiar with the area can give me some feedback on my preliminary plans and see if I've got it covered.

Some background: I'm aiming for around 11 or 12 days (vacation time restraints). We will be flying in from Orlando and will probably fly into Kalispell and out of Jackson Hole. We will be renting a car because we like to drive around and stop frequently to take pictures and admire the scenery. We are in our late 50's/60's and like short walks but serious hiking is not on the agenda due to my knees. We won't be horseback riding, whitewater rafting, backpacking, or fishing.

First question is when to go? We want to time it to avoid snow, crowds, rain, and mosquitoes, but still be able to drive the full Going To The Sun Road and see wildlife, waterfalls, sunshine, and flowers or changing leaves. I was considering Labor Day weekend (Sep 3, 2016) but if the following weekend would still be likely to have the GTS road open then that is a possibility. I know GTS doesn't open until mid to late June and that seems like the height of the crowd season, so I thought later in the season would be better than earlier - after the little darlings head back to school, you know......

Here's my prospective general itinerary:
Day 1: Fly into Kalispell, rent car, spend night somewhere on west side of GNP.
Day 2: Drive GTS road, taking lots of time to admiring the scenery and take pics. Spend night somewhere on east side.
Day 3: Drive around east side (Many Glacier, etc). Spend 2nd night on east side.
Day 4: Drive to Yellowstone. Spend night in Mammoth, Roosevelt Lodge, or somewhere on the north side of the park.
Day 5: Drive around north loop area. Spend 2nd night on north side.
Day 6: Drive to OFI area - hope to get room there. Explore that area.
Day 7: Drive around south loop area. Spend 2nd night at OFI.
Day 8: Explore any areas we feel like we missed. Spend 3rd night at OFI.
Day 9: Drive to Grand Teton, exploring along the way. Spend night at Jackson Lake or Jenny Lake.
Day 10: Drive around Grand Teton. Spend 2nd night at Jackson/Jenny Lake.
Day 11: Fly out of Jackson Hole.

Any comments? Am I missing anything or being unrealistic about driving times? I know Glacier to Yellowstone is an all day drive, while Yellowstone to Grand Teton is just a couple of hours. The airports we fly into and out of may change depending on the pricing & timing of flights and rental cars (i.e., there might be a dropoff fee for the car if we return it to a different state than we picked it up from) but this is the general plan.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

John

I can only speak for GNP. Kalispell is serviced by United, Delta and Alaska airlines. In past high seasons, Delta had a non stop from Atlanta, otherwise you can connect from Minneapolis, Chicago, Denver, Spokane and Salt Lake City. Weather is unpredictable especially this far out but it is a pretty safe bet the GTTS road will be free of snow in September. Having said that, it can, and has in the past, snowed every day of the year. If you are not serious hikers than 2 to 3 days in Glacier is about right. Glacier is a hiking park.
As far as avoiding crowds, the past few years that has not been possible, though after Labor Day things slow down a bit. I'd suggest making hotel reservations as soon as you have your dates squared away.
Cone on out and enjoy Big Sky Country!

utahtea

"We want to time it to avoid snow, crowds, rain, and mosquitoes, but still be able to drive the full Going To The Sun Road and see wildlife, waterfalls, sunshine, and flowers or changing leaves."

That's a big order and you left out forest fires! To avoid crowds in Yellowstone you need to be there the last week of May to the first week of June because the crowds start coming as soon as school is out. This is to early for the Going to the Sun Highway and you can still have snow storms in Yellowstone.

In 2012 we went to all the parks you mentioned...or we had planned on all of them. We arrived on August 27th at Glacier and spent 9 days (camping) there. Try to avoid the Labor Day weekend! We had beautiful weather. No rain but one day there was smoke from a fire. The smoke was the first day but surprisingly enough it didn't show up again even though the fire wasn't out yet. We then moved to Yellowstone where we spent 2 weeks. Again we had beautiful weather, no rain and one day of smoke from a fire. Several days you could see smoke way off in the distance but it didn't make it to us. We had planned on spending time at the Grand Tetons but when we drove down there the smoke from a nearby fire was so bad that you could hardly make out the outline of the mountains. We ended up just moving on because the forecast was for worse conditions in the days to come.

We saw lots of wildlife, wild flowers, waterfalls and a little fall color.

Utahtea

sludick

I do like your agenda. And greetings from a fellow Orlando fodorite!

Reference utahtea's point - We have only been to Glacier one time, and that was during some hellacious wildfires in 2003 around Labor Day. I think that is why we have not yet returned, it was a real bust. However, I think you might consider that following weekend. Even if it is rainy, it's better than fires.

For Yellowstone/Tetons, we prefer latter September. Go for it. You can book online, too, so not always necessary to call unless trying for cancellations. We only regret we didn't visit when we were much younger. At this point, we just keep returning. You will be glad you went.

cslasor

Thanks for the quick replies! I also regret not doing more of this kind of thing when I was younger and able to go hiking, but I didn't have the money then. It just isn't fair, is it? [...smile...]

Are wildfires around the first weekend of September pretty common? Or is it something that does happen sometimes but usually doesn't?

sludick

To be fair, we were there in 2003, which is known as the summer that Glacier burned. It was history making. ttp://missoulian.com/lifestyles/territory/remembering-glacier-national-park-s-summer-of-fire/article_5d073ba0-06a7-11e3-b445-0019bb2963f4.html

But you can expect some fires somewhere in the region as a matter of course - Yellowstone has had some sort of fire going somewhere every fall we've been there. Whether or not it's something impacting will depend on the snow pack and dryness of the summer. Don't be put off by it, though.

John

I certainly wouldn't put off a trip because it MIGHT be smoky!!! You have a better chance of hitting snow than fire

cslasor

OK, I'll just consider wildfires to be one of those Act Of God things that may or may not happen. Not much you can do about those but deal with them if they arise. Over the years I've encountered unexpected blizzards, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, heat waves, flight delays, road construction, accidents, defective rental cars, and nasty public restrooms. Might as well add wildfire to the list......

Looking forward to the trip. Shame it's so far away. Thanks again for the advice!

utahtea

I wouldn't put off the trip because of fires either, I just wanted to warn you that it can happen and it can happen during June too. The big Yellowstone fire of 1988 started in mid-June! We went the year after and it was wonderful... the place was void of tourist and there were plenty of wildflowers and baby pine trees.

Utahtea

Myer

We have normally gone to these place in late July to early August.

What is the issue with crowds? We have always seen other people and have never seen so many people in any one place that made it uncomfortable.

A few spots will have quite a few people. Such as some of the very parking-lot friendly viewpoints for the Lower Yellowstone Falls.

I'm an amateur photog so I get up early each morning and go looking for wildlife. It was me and a few others looking for the same. Not a lot of people in in very central places.

For spectacular scenery spend your Glacier time in the Many Glacier area and not on the west side. If GTTS road isn't open yet just skip Logan Pass (and the Hidden Lake Overlook trail) and go around to Many Glacier.

In Many Glacier do as much of the Iceberg Lake hike that you feel you can do. The very beginning is uphill but the rest is just a long day in the park. Spectacular scenery.

For wildlife in Many Glacier. A good chance to see grizzlies road-side. Go to the far end on the Swiftcurrent Motor Inn parking lot a couple of hours before sunset. Walk 15 minutes along the Swifcurrent Pass trail until you see the Fishercap Lake sign pointing left.

You will not be alone at Fishercap Lake. Invariably moose and deer come down for dinner. Fishecap Lake is unique. For a lake that size to be so shallow that the animals can walk across is rare. Wildlife central.

You can see my photos of these places at: www.travelwalks.com

utahtea

Meyer,

Here are my issues with crowds. Every year we go there are more and more crowds and it makes finding places to park in Yellowstone almost impossible at some of the smaller parking areas. We had to hike 10 miles instead of half that to get to Fairy Falls & Imperial geysers because the parking was so packed at the closer location and that was in September. I prefer being able to find a seat while waiting to watch Old Faithful. I also prefer to have a clear view of Old Faithful instead of having to look over everyone's shoulder. I prefer not to have people bump into me on the trail. I really dislike it when paths are so crowded you are constantly waiting for them to move over or move on. Large crowds in national parks are not my kind of fun. If you can venture out farther than most it's not an issue once you find a place to park but OP has said they can't do long hikes.

Utahtea

Myer

utahtea,

There seems to be a lot of things you don't like.

I took my adult daughter and then 7 year old granddaughter to Yellowstone and GTNP late last July. We are all amateur photographers and even the granddaughter has her own DSLR camera and telephoto lens for wildlife.

We had no trouble finding a parking space in the Fairy Falls trailhead parking lot. It was not early in the morning nor late in the day. We walked along that dirt road, climbed up the hill behind Grand Prismatic Spring to get that amazing view and eventually came down and continued on to Fairy Falls. When we got to the Falls there might have been 12-15 people there.

I can understand having a problem finding a good spot to see OF in the time window when the tour buses arrive just before an eruption and leave just after. I think it's best to see OF erupt early in the morning when the sun is still pretty low and glistens off the water. You want to be with your back to the OF Lodge dining room (not Inn) with the sun behind you for the best views. Also, the breeze doesn't kick up until later so you have great eruptions.

If you prefer to see the eruption late in the afternoon, I would walk over to the other side of OF and sit on one of the couple of benches at Plume Geyser. That way the sun won't be in your eyes. And there will only be a few people there.

The only trail I've ever been on that was truly crowded was the hike to Hidden Falls / Inspiration Point on Jenny Lake in Grand Teton National Park. That was on a Sunday so understandable. We've seen a fair number of people on other hikes but never crowded.

The only trailhead parking lot that I've seen full was for Mt Washburn. But that's after 10AM.

Of course, non-hiking parking lots will always fill up early. But if you have to walk a couple of hundred yards from the parking lot to the attraction the lot will almost never be full.

I went out early every morning and never saw more than a few people anywhere looking for wildlife. Except along the main road in Hayden Valley just below Canyon. This doesn't require much walking so looking out when there are any grizzlies will attract 30-40 people roadside.

Myer

utahtea

Myer,

I love the national parks and Yellowstone is my favorite of them all. I'll put up with the crowds to see them! We didn't have any crowds in Glacier the last time we were there in Sept 2012. We waited and waited at the close parking lot for the Fairy Falls trail. That's ok...we had an adventure going the other way. We came back on a trail where we did NOT see any humans...but almost ran head on into a bison....OY! Talk about close encounters!

Utahtea

Myer

utahtea,

I've been very close to bison, bears, moose and deer. At the time the adrenalin is flowing but when I look at the photos later I wonder what I was thinking.

These are wild animals and they can do a lot of damage.

I photographed a sequence at Fishercap Lake in Glacier. One female deer was chasing away another. The one doing the chasing had sent her baby up into the woods.

After the chase was over I looked back the other way. Suddenly the mother was standing beside me. As she walked by her shoulder rubbed against my arm.

When you picture Bambi you think of soft fur. Not so. It was like sandpaper.

John

Obviously, you weren't thinking!! Whether it be a Marmot ,Deer, ground Squirrel or whatever, one should not be that close to ANY wild life!!!!

EGR2016

I recommend Heart Six, an all-inclusive that includes horseback riding, Yellowstone tours, campouts, etc. etc.

http://heartsix.com/

utahtea

EGR2016, Have you used Heart Six or are you just advertising?

As far as the bison....we didn't have any choice....we were on the path and he came out of the bushes and was coming right at us on the path. We had a little warning but had to decided quickly what to do. DH said where should we go....and all there was around us was a thermal area and a few small bushes. We chose the bushes but had to duck really low not to be seen.

We were on the Fishercap Lake in Glacier when a moose came though the woods RIGHT in front of us. DH and I choose a tree to hide behind but the other two on the trail just stood there frozen. Some times you don't have a choice. I'm not one to go chasing after wildlife or try to get to close but I've seen people chasing after grizzly bears...OY MY!

Utahtea

John

Chasing Grizzlies??? hard to believe people are that stupid!!!

utahtea

John,

On more than one occasion we've seen a lot of people actually chasing after grizzly bears! I don't even feel safe in my car because I've seen videos of black bears in Yosemite ripping off car doors!

cslasor,

I apologize for hijacking your thread....but then again it keeps it at the top where it can be seen by more people.

Utahtea

John

I spend LOTS of time in GNP but have never seen anyone chasing bears. First of all, why would the bear run away As you know, Griz especially are EXTREMELY dangerous. I've seen many but stay far far away with bear spray at the ready