Do you have to return to Las Vegas after the four days?

Death Valley is a national park, too.

I wonder if we can rely on The Tea Party to resolve the problem?

I doubt that the contractors (not federal employees) will go on strike at campgrounds or lodges.
The Valley of Fire is a State Park and should not be closed.
You could rent a boat on Lake Mead from the Marina.
You can walk across Hoover Dam 24/7 even if the tours are not running.
You should have free access to the Parks that have gates to collect fees or check your $80 annual Pass.
Visit Goblin Valley State Park in Utah.

sounds like free admission and no speed limits to me!

In the past "government shutdown" at the GC has meant no one manning the entrance stations (so free entry), no guided Ranger programs, in-park campgrounds are closed and the visitor centers were shut.

But the concessionaires (hotels and dining and non-Ranger tours) are private contractors and driven by the profit motive, so they are still open for business. I assume it's the same in Utah.

So don't fret until you hear the gates are locked, which I doubt would happen.

"I doubt that the contractors (not federal employees) will go on strike at campgrounds or lodges. "

We aren't talking about strikes. A potential Gov't shut down is because of lack of funding authority, not labor action . . .

chs29445: There most likely won't be a shut down -- all indications are there is significant progress being made in the negotiations. But even if there is a shut down, it won't much affect most SW Nat'l Parks. The rangers might be missing -- but the hotel/restaurant staff would be on duty.

Jean- yes, week long trip ending back in Vegas.
happytrails- no politisizing on my board
ziggy- never thought of it that way. changes the rental car options.
The Parks concessionaire ,Xanterra, has stated that a shutdown will affect them and refunds will be given. As for the parks themselves you've answered that for me.
Curious if they indeed operate differently. I work with a Homeland Security contractor and today found out(due to some preemptive program cancellations next week) that my vacation may be "extended" when I get back.
Thanks for the help. I'm an obsessive preparer so every detail must be right. Loosen up eh?

Valley of Fire State Park, NV and Snow Canyon State Park just a few miles outside of St. George, Utah are both scenic areas. Monument Valley is a little out of the way but it's a Tribal Park so it should be open.

Utahtea

I wanted to add that from I've read the National Parks were closed during 21 days in Dec. 1995 - Jan 1996 when went thought this. They mentioned Grand Canyon by name and mentioned barricades at Rocky Mountain National Park....so I think Closed means CLOSED to visitors. I doubt they are going to let people in without ranger supervision.

Utahtea

Rattle the sabres some more, OP

I wanted to add that from I've read the National Parks were closed during 21 days in Dec. 1995 - Jan 1996 when went thought this. They mentioned Grand Canyon by name and mentioned barricades at Rocky Mountain National Park....so I think Closed means CLOSED to visitors. I doubt they are going to let people in without ranger supervision

Utahtea, I was living in Arizona at the time and I remember it differently. The Feds threatened to shut Grand Canyon totally and not let anyone in and the Governor fought back, offering to take over running the park if necessary.

They reached a compromise. Here's a description of what was allowed (from one of the first sites called up by a search on "GC closure 1995" if you want to read more), pretty much as I said in my first post:

"Most of the visitor facilities between Mather Point and Hermit's Rest on the South Rim were kept open, as were lodges, restaurants, shops and bus tours. Areas that remained closed were "East Rim Drive overlooks, Desert View, Tusayan Museum, trails below the canyon rim, Phantom Ranch, the Colorado River, the North Rim, and Lees Ferry." As a result of those closures, no day or overnight-hiking below the South Rim was allowed, nor were there any river trips or mule trips allowed.

Arizona officials, through donations and state funds, raised nearly $550,000 to keep the park open for 31 days, from December 18, 1995, through January 18, 1996. On January 19, 1996, park officials announced that Congress had ended the impasse and that enough money was appropriated to keep the National Park System operating through the end of September, 1996.

There is of course no guarantee what would happen in the future but typically the gov't picks something eye-catching like this to try to dramatize their point ('no garbage pickup unless taxes are raised' or 'we'll have to layoff all air traffic controllers' etc) and then backs off before doing the worst case scenario.

Just let me add a grumble. How many Fodors folks and others are concerned like me about survival of National Parks let alone a temporary shut down? Do we have to privatize everything including all things bright and beautiful? Already happening to state parks

Bill in Boston

Many National Parks have no entrance fee. Capitol Reef and Canyonlands are 2. http://www.nps.gov/findapark/feefreeparks.htm
The visitor center may be closed and there may be no Park police, but they will be open to drive at least.
I should have known by now if I had a summer lookout job with the Forest Service. If the bosses don't know if they have any money, you may see some very large forest fires being fought by prison crews or the US Armed Forces.

Bill H, thanks for setting the record straight on the Grand Canyon being closed.

tomfuller, The drive on Hwy 24 though Capitol Reef has no fee, but if you drive the scenic highway beyond the Fruita campgrounds in the park there is a fee. http://www.nps.gov/care/planyourvisit/feesandreservations.htm Canyonlands also charges a fee. http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/feesandreservations.htm

Utahtea

I was in Canyonlands 2 years ago and there was no fee (I have a lifetime pass).

I asked about it and was told the reason is that the main highway goes right thru the middle of the park and it would be too costly to set up.

Also, several of the hiking trails are directly off the main highway. They would have to station collectors at the parking lot of each trail.

Lastly, some parks just don't have to number of visitors that others have. If people had to pay to enter, they would move on to the more popular parks.

utahtea, I read the link you provided.

I wonder if that's relatively new or if it's posted but not enforced due to the complexity and expense.

Or maybe they now enforce it.

South of the visitor center at Capitol Reef they have a self service-honor system box to fill out your own pass if you don't have an annual or daily Pass. Your receipt from another National Park is valid for a week. Lets hope no one has an auto accident in a NP when the shutdown happens.
I drove through the Island in the Sky section of Canyonlands and did not see any government employees other than at the Visitor Center. No fee was collected there.

I'm from Down Under, and don't know what's going on in USA parks, except for this thread. We are planning next month, to visit lots of national parks, including Lassen, Lava Beds, Crater Lake, Yellowstone, Bryce, Zion, and Joshua Tree. Am I likely to be affected?

Joshua Tree you should be able to enter from the Palm Springs end. I don't believe there is a gate there.

Death Valley doesn't have gates.

Meyer, I've kept pretty good records over the years and I show using our Golden Eagle (National Park Pass) in Capitol Reef, Canyonlands, Island in the Sky District and Canyonlands Needles District in 1991. All three areas are pretty much on an honor system.

At Capitol Reef, as tomfuller mentioned there is a self-serve station on the scenic drive. As I mentioned you don't have to pay to drive on Hwy 24 though Capitol Reef.

At Canyonlands you are suppose to stop at the Ranger Station/Visitor Center and to pay.

Meyer, I forgot to mention that DH just got his Lifetime pass for the parks on his birthday this month. We made a special trip to Yosemite to do it! He has been looking forward to that day for many years!

Utahtea

Carabella, Lassen, Crater Lake, Yellowstone, and perhaps even Bryce--expect a lot of the trails, roads and even facilites to still be closed in April or May.

I don't think you will be affected by a shutdown(could be, nothing is 100%), but I do think it is highly likely that you will be affected in 2 or 3 places that the roads/trails/facilities will be closed for snow/weather. Hopefully, you are coming in late May.

Myer, I am not the only one that can't spell your name. and look she did it twice as well. lol

I have been at many places in the NPS where sometimes they collect fees and sometimes they don't. Even if you get to Arches early enough they just leave the gates open there. I have an yearly pass, so I don't stop to read the fine print. Sometimes, they suggest you pay at the Visitor Center.

utahtea, spiro,

The reason I can't remember paying or not is that I've had a lifetime (say senior) pass since my first visit to a NP. I just caught the but several years ago.

However, I do remember asking in the visitors center at Capitol Reef due to the layout of having the hiking trails go off the main highway.

They said it wasn't practical.

We did go down thru the park and did a hike down there. But since I have a pass I don't remember seeing as sign.

I believe there is guard kiosk at Islands in the Sky on the way to Grand View. I recall an honor box there for after hours. This wasn't that long ago.

I wonder what this will do to campgrounds.

Myer, my apologies for the misspellings!

We have bought a Golden Eagle/National Park Pass (they keep changing the names) almost every year so we didn't have to stop but I like to keep track of how much I have saved so I made notes of the fees charged. Like in 1991 the entrance fee to Canyonlands, Arches, Capitol Reef, Chaco were only $3.00 while Bryce, Zion, Mesa Verde were $5. Back in 1977 when we first went to Canyonlands Island in the Sky District there was no fee but back then the road into the park wasn't even paved from where it split to go to Dead Horse State park. The ranger could see anyone coming for miles because of the dust! It took most of the day just to drive to Grand View Point.

Utahtea

wow, utahtea, those fees harken back to the days of the $3 gas tank fill-up!

enlap, Well, I did say I kept good records. The average price of gas for the August 1991 four week trip was $1.14. Lowest was in Southern California at $ .99/9 and the highest was in Torrey, Utah at $125/9. Those were the days!!!!

My apologies to chs29445 for going off topic.

Utahtea

Having never been to GC, I am wondering about some of this information. Question 1, do you need reservations when just visiting the GC, just to peek over the edge so to speak? Question #2, how do I keep up with this? We are going the 10-11 of April. Thanks.

Hi Maryanne_Looby,

#1 You don't need reservations to enter the park or ride the free shuttle buses. You will just need to pay the entrance fee or use a National Park Pass. http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/fees-reservations.htm#CP_JUMP_362306

#2 I would think that the Grand Canyon National Park website would be a good place to check for the most current information. http://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm and any online News sites and Fodor's forums.

Utahtea

Here's the page for news releases for Grand Canyon:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/parknews/newsreleases.htm

Thanks enlap, It looks like I'll be needing that link!

Utahtea

I'm planning on visiting a National Park in mid-June.

I guess that if there is a shutdown and it lasts that long we've got bigger problems than just not going to a park.

Myer- very true. Didn't mean to stir the pot just thought it was just my luck that this thing MIGHT hit in the middle of my trip. IF it does it will only last a couple days. Our elected officials aren't that dumb... (hold for laughter)
Carrabella- this wont affect your trip. As spiro said, keep updated on road conditions.
Actually, no I'm trying to plan for weather. Snow flurries possible?? Ugh...it's 82 here now and I can't find my winter wear Oh well, jetting out in the morning. I'll report any note-worthy happenings.

WOW. In my innocence, I just assumed tnat the national parks would always be accesible. Today I started to seriously plan an (east to west) cross country, van/camper, NP, no time limit, "bucket list" road trip. I wouldn't have checked on park conditions until we were almost under way... beginning of Aug. Thanks for the heads up on sensible planning.:}

amacy2, If there isn't a budget until August, then we are all going to be in a world of hurt and it won't just be National Parks that affect us!

Utahtea

According to a local news article today, if there is a government shutdown (which seems more likely at this point) it would mean putting up gates to prevent access to the national parks. Maybe you would consider driving north as there is still snow in the mountains for skiing/snowboarding!

Even though you can drive through some national parks, Death Valley for example, closure of the NP Visitor Centers will mean that the restrooms, etc. will also be closed. For in-park accomodations, I believe guests are asked to depart on Saturday and in-park accomodations will be closed.

Some parks, like Yosemite, will actually have closed gates.

Hike the Pacific Crest Trail through Crater Lake NP. You will need snowshoes this weekend. The Post Office will be open.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/crla/brochures/pct.htm

Well, here is my chance to hike halfdome without the permit. lol.

You can still visit the Grand Canyon even during a government shutdown, albeit not the most popular parts. The West Rim is actually controlled by Native American tribes (the Havasupai, I believe), and they do have some limited options for overnight stays and activities down in the canyon. They could be booked up by now, but it might be worth investigating. Their lodge is pretty basic, though. You could also visit Monument Valley in southeastern Utah; it's not a national park. And I think people also mentioned above several state parks that might be worthwhile.

spirobulldog, The cables for Half Dome won't be up, but I'll watch for you on the local news!

Utahtea

We were kicked out of Yosemite when it closed down in October of 1994 (?). We were camping. The lodge stayed open for those still there because it is run by a concessionaire. However, I believe that no new guests could come in because the road is controlled by the Park Service.

News of your governmental kaffuffles has now reached Down Under, and I understand more of what's going on over there! Tourists like me may or may not be affected, but oh, your poor country!! We are looking on in amazement.

May there be some sanity soon! Good Luck All!

Spiro and chs, when one road is closed, another..... etc. I'm hoping to see lots of snow somewhere. Will keep checking till we leave.

What a great way to stimulate the economy...trash the tourist trade. Sure, toss stimulus money to corrupt bankers and spend ourselves into the poorhouse with insane military actions but heaven forbid our government do anything logical.

We just got an automated call from Recreational.gov letting us know that we could be kicked out of some National Park campgrounds on Sunday, April 10th and that if we decided to cancel we could do so without a cancellation fee.

We decided to cancel because we would be getting there on April 10 and just don't feel like packing and driving all that way just to have to come home. We'll just pick some other dates after the dust settles. Good luck to others who have reservations.

Utahtea

Here is what Xantera website says

http://www.xanterra.com/nps-advisory-8345.html

Peterboy - could not agree with you more! Off with their heads (and I have a relative-by-mariage who is a very well known senior Senator).

Carrabella, I live in UT and we are having a very big snow year. Northern Ut is (as of this weekend) over 1785 of normal and southern UT is even more than that. Go skiing!

Alta, Snowbird, Solutiude, Brighton, Park City, Canyons, others will still be open.

Oops, make that 178% of normal.....

Oops, make that 178% of normal.....

Don't worry-be happy. Senate just passed a one week CR. Now if they can round up the House Members in the next 20 minutes to get a vote. Time to break up the tea party and vote!