Catherine

We may have to move to the St. Louis area in the near future. Having grown up on the East Coast and always near the ocean, the thought of moving away from the water bothers me.
We lived in Ohio once for about 1 1/2 years and found it B O R I N G, especially after living or working in such exciting cities as NYC or Boston where we could dine out on a whim or pick up tickets to a play instead of heading home (before kids).

Tell me why I shouldn't be concerned and what areas we should look in for a home. We built our lovely home ourselves just 5 years ago and we'll miss our "dream home" here, especially with all the hours on the drawing boards and "sweat equity" we put into it.

We have 2 boys (13 & 10) who are avid sports players and go to a private school now.

jim

Catherine,

Fear not - we moved to St. Louis two years ago and absolutely love it.
(I have lived in Dallas, Chicago and Kansas City and have travelled extensively). (See my post on favorite cities).
I was apprehensive about moving but found this to be a very friendly, upbeat city. People are very nice, lots of cultural activities, great neighborhoods and do not forget about the Rams,Cardinals and Blues. The only thing that disappointed me about St. Louis was a downtown in desperate need of repair.
Now Downtown St. Louis is going through a huge revitalization and expects to be completed by 2004. Right now it is a big dust ball with all the construction but when done will be amazing. (I am looking at a major renovation outside my window).
Neighborhoods to live in -
Kirkwood and Clayton are midtown and have so much personality but may be out of price range - start around 160 up to anywhere.
Chesterfield is the major suburb which is west of the city (30 minutes to Downtown with Clayton and Kirkwood in between). Old Chesterfield (check out Westbury Manor, Green Trails and Riverbend neighborhood will run 140-280. Newer areas of Chesterfield not as much personality and 200-400 range but that is where you will find new homes to build. Another area on the move real estate wise are new homes off Highway 94 as you go toward the wineries but this will put you 20 minutes further west.
Gundaker and Remax major real estate cos.
St. Louis is a big sport town - soccer, baseball and hockey are favorites. Anheuser Busch has a big soccer park and
wins everything. We play in the lesser
leagues which are great as well.
Lots of ice skating rinks in neighborhoods. Most neighborhoods have subdivision pools and swim team is big as well.
St. Louis is a huge Catholic town - Catholic schools every few blocks but
do not fear if not Catholic - other great schools (private). Also keep in mind there are more high schools than you can count and great universities as well.
Sorry for the length but I do not think
you should dread the move.

esc

St. Louis can be a wonderful place to live. There is a decent arts scene: The Repertory Theater of StL is wonderful; The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra is one of the best in the world; Opera Theater St. Louis is great; there are many smaller companies and schools that produce plays and musicals throughout the year; also the Muny Theater is a great outdoor amphitheater playing old musicals in the summer.

All the places listed by jim above are nice places to live. But, the reason downtown St. Louis is having to go through such an extensive rebirth is because of all the wimps who won't live in the city. Chesterfield and all the places off Highway 94 are 30-50 minutes from the city (and therefore that far from all the theaters, concert halls, non-chain restaurants, Cards, Blues, Rams, art museum, zoo, science center, etc).

There are some amazing neighborhoods in the city. I don't know what your budget or lifestyle is, but for solid middle-class homes in a wonderful, vibrant, safe area try south city (St. Louis Hills, Holly Hills) with houses ranging from $120,000-$250,000. Or try the Central West End ($150,000-$1,500,000) which has gorgeous World's Fair era houses, great restaurants and walking distance to Forest Park (where the museums, zoo, Muny, etc are located). Clayton and Kirkwood are good compromises (suburbs that aren't that far out, and have an eensy-teensy amount of diversity).

St. Louis is very Catholic, but also has a large Jewish population (University City, another great place to live). There are great schools, and a few world-class universities. If you're not a baseball fan, you'll become one after you live here for awhile. I HATED baseball before I came here, but Cardinal baseball is too exciting to ignore.

Be sure and see The Hill if you visit here. It may just convince you to move here (it's also a great place to live, unfortunately the houses are very small). It's the Italian neighborhood (boyhood home of Yogi Berra) and has possibly the best Italian restaurants outside Italy.

St. Louis has a lot to offer, you just have to keep your mind open. I am going to say this, not meaning at all to offend anyone, but East Coast natives tend to be a little provincial and look down their noses at the midwest. Mostly we midwesterners don't mind this. We are not too concerned or impressed with image. We prefer substance over style. So, if you move here, just remember the Missouri state motto: Show Me!

Rich

I also am considering moving to St. Louis, so thanks for posting this message! I am weighing options in D.C. & St. Louis. No offense, but D.C. is my first choice. But St. Louis seems like a really liveable city. As I posted elsewhere, I am a country person - I don't need to have a theater & Starbucks within walking distance, nor do I particularly care for the suburbs. I was wondering if there are any small towns on the Illinois side (no, not E. St. Louis!) that would fit this bill. I flew in & out of St. Louis last week, and it looked like (from the air, anyway!) Illinois has some nice small towns that don't look like too far of a commute from the city.

Catherine: I don't know where you lived in Ohio, but I doubt you lived in Cleveland, as they are recognized for having some of the best theaters outside of New York, and the Lake Erie coastline is quite nice (don't laugh--it's a complete 180 from the '70s!). No offense, but I must concur with esc - I've lived in Conn. & Va., & there is a definite snobbiness among many east coasters when it comes to the midwest. I'd recommend that you think very long & hard before you make the jump - especially since you say that you really enjoy living near the ocean. Perhaps you may want to re-examine your options re:job situation. It sounds like you'd be miserable just about anywhere considering you'd have to leave your "dream house." My suggestion would be to try & push to find another option that would keep you in the area you love. And Catherine, try giving the midwest another look - If my car broke down on the road, I can almost guarantee you that a midwesterner would be much more likely to lend a hand than someone from NY or BOS.

Anyway, any input from St. Louis experts is appreciated! Thanks, and good luck to you, Catherine!

Blaine

Please keep in mind, Catherine, that attitude and preconceptions have far reaching effects on subsequent experiences when it comes to both travel and new hometowns.
If you expect to hate StL, you probably will. If you resent having to leave your dream home, nearly everything else will leave you bitter. Having had to live (temporarily) in some cities in the Midwest that most would not select as being desirable, as well as on both coasts, my opinion is that life is what you make of it.
If you have to move to StL for awhile, look at it as one stop along a lifetime journey and it'll be easier to be accepting and make the best of it. Glass half full.
StL cannot compare to NYC and Beantown. Not in the same league. But you should be able to find enough of most things you need to be satisfied for a few years. And remember that it's only 3 hours to either coast via air.
BTW, the best neighborhoods in StL are around Forest Park and in Clayton.

Wendy

Catherine, welcome to St. Louis (in advance)! Blaine, is correct in stating that St.Louis is nothing like New York and Boston.........THANK GOODNESS. You will me amazed at how much further your money and time will go here. From big purchases like a home, to the cost of car insurance, and the water bill, your costs will be cut almost in half. As the above posts stated, we have many private schools here (both parochial and secular) but we also have many high quality public school districts (Clayton, Ladue, Brentwood,Kirkwood and others all have award winning schools). We have 2 children and never run out of things to do with them here.
Besides the many sports opportunities already mentioned there is the zoo, art museum, science center, Magic House Childrens Museum,Illinois and Missouri State Parks, Katy Trail, and all of the special events at the Savis Center like the circus, Disney on Ice, Globe Trotters, etc. There are more great restaurants than you will ever have time for. We go out without the kids several times a month and haven't run out of great places to try yet. Though I must admit we do have numerous favorites that we return to from time to time. The Fox Theater gets the Broadway road shows and the Repretory Theater does great productions (we have been season ticket holders for several years and are continually impressed at the quality of the performances.)
Basically Catherine, I chose to live in St.Louis for the past 20 years. Both my husband and myself grew up in NY and even lived in the area for several years as adults. I believe St. Louis is a wonderful place to live and a great place to bring up children. No, this isn't NY and generally we are very happy about that.
If you choose to move here and I can help answer any specific questions please let me know. Appreciate each location for what it has to offer and I think you will find lots to appreciate in St. Louis even if we dont have an ocean.

ca

Catherine, I have lived in St Louis 40 of my 45 years. The city has a lot to offer. Affordable housing, excellent schools-public or private and a large range of diverse activities for your children. Since your boys are into sports St Louis would be an ideal choice. The organized team sports for kids run all throughout the year.

Catherine

Thanks for the advice, posters.
Prices of homes are decent, compared to East Coast prices, but what size house do they cover? (# bedrooms, acreage) We have a 5 BR on 3 acres.

ca

Catherine, we are in far west St louis County(Rockwood School District) For a 5 bedroom house on three acres you would expect to pay 250,000 at the very least, with prices rising quickly depending on the community you choose. You might try researching on some of the real estate sites(Remax,Coldwell etc.)

sarah

GO CARDINALS!!!

Just had to brag.

For questions about home prices -
Prices run in my neighborhood - Chesterfield west county, 4 bedrooms,
1.2 acre 180 to 260. You can find a very decent home practically anywhere in St. Louis for 180 to 260.

For questions about the Illinois side of the river. Illinois is starting to take off but I think home prices are still pretty decent (better than areas anywhere in Missouri side). GREAT small towns in Illinois just east of the city are Waterloo, Columbia and Millstadt. Keep in mind that St. Louis now has another airport on the Illinois side with Pan Am using as a hub so will have an airport too.

susan

I know a young couple who is considering moving to St. Louis, but they don't have much money and have two small children, one of whom will be starting school next year. The figure $180,000 was mentioned as a low for housing. Are there less expensive places to live where the public schools are great, or must they expect to pay at least that much? In that price range, would private schools be necessary too? My son used to live in the Central West End - which we all love - and we're also familiar with Clayton, but I know nothing of the school situation in either place...or any other area of St. Louis, for that matter.

esc

Rich: Another nice Illinois town is Belleville.

Catherine: If you are interested in 3 acres you'll definitely need to live in south, west or north county - or in Illinois. You won't come near 3 acres anywhere close to the city, unless you pay a fortune. Also, where exactly can you NOT dine out on a whim? You may not be able to get tickets to the theater on a whim here, since they often sell out.

Susan: There are plenty of neighborhoods where you can find a nice house for under $180,000, both in the city and the suburbs. Most of the posts here have focused on expensive west county housing. There are inexpensive housing options in all areas of StL. As you can see from my post above, I'm very pro-city. I have no patience for the white-flight attitudes I found when I moved here. On my block (in St. Louis Hills) there are whites, blacks, hispanics, and quite a few Bosnians. It is safe, charming, friendly, and close to everything. The houses are all brick, and more solid than anything you could buy new. Many people are buying doubles and converting them into beautiful, big homes. You won't find many public school options in my neighborhood though. Most kids attend Catholic or Lutheran schools, which you can easily walk to. A nice 3-bedroom on my block just sold for $135,000. But, they sell very quickly (we bought our house the day it went on the market, beat out two others by being pre-approved).

I lived in NYC for 18 months and am still amazed by the perception that moving to the midwest is somehow a move "down". A friend of mine (from Boston) constantly complained while he lived here because it wasn't as cosmopolitan as Boston. Turns out he lived way out in the burbs his whole life and rarely went to the city, museums, or anyplace else. Life is what you make of it. Only boring people get bored.

maryb

I second the suggestion for the Hill area if you want more reasonable housing . lots of personality and so much good food. As noted however the public schools not great in this area and the houses and lots are small.
Another reasonable area for homes in west county is the creve couer area (creve couer means broken heart - there is a story there but I forgot). Creve couer is just east of Chesterfield and you can find reasonable homes with bigger lots than the Hill (not as much personality). Kurt Warner lives in Creve Couer but the small section that has unbelievable homes. The rest of Creve Couer is more reasonable - anywhere from 120 and up. Advantage - Great public school system in Creve Couer - all Parkway schools are great.

Jack

I lived in St Louis for 8 years and I loved it! The summers are pretty hot and humid, but the fall is fantastic! I hope one day to get back there, good luck.

Wendy

Susan, you asked about more reasonable home prices in a good school district. Our first home was in Olivette in the Ladue school system. Ladue is one of the top districts in St. Louis ( the only district that spends more per student is Clayton and last year that was only $50 more per student). You can still buy a nice smaller home in a safe neighborhood there for under 100,000. I highly recommend it. My personal bias is not to be way out in west county anyway. Olivette is centrally located which makes it far more convenient (with less trafic to deal with) to take advantage of the zoo, Sience Center, sporting events,theater and anything else toward downtown.

susan

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. It sounds as though St. Louis is like most other cities: either pay more for housing and use public schools, or pay less for housing and use private schools. Wendy, I'm familiar with Ladue and am surprised to know it has homes priced for less...the ones I've seen looked in the multi-million dollar range!

Greg

susan I find a lot of this advice a little strange. I live in Chicago and visit St. Loius regularly for work and have relatives there. Homes in the areas in Ladue and Clayton that I know of are NOT cheap by midwest standards. And nothing against those who love the character and tradition of the Hill area, but I wouldn't live there if I was coming from the solace of 3 acres and wanted as nice a place as possible to ease my transition to a new part of the country.

Jethro

Catherine, I spend every Thanksgiving with my in-laws in Ohio and I heartily agree that Ohio is probably the most boring place on the face of the earth. St. Louis can't be as boring so look up.

esc

I think Wendy was talking about getting a house in Olivette, which happens to be in the Ladue school district. Olivette is a nice mid-county neighborhood, not too expensive, in a very good school district. A few other places to check out: Warson Woods, Brentwood, Richmond Heights, Glendale. These are all fairly centrally located. But, as I said before, you'll never get 3 acres in this area (unless you buy a mansion in Ladue).

Sheila

Hi, Catherine-

We just moved to St. Louis three years ago. We bought a house in Clayton, and frankly, spent at least a third more for it than we would have in other suburbs of the city. We do have a very large yard though, and the trees and foliage on our street are very mature- making for some beautiful walks. The reason we moved to Clayton was for the schools. Unfortunately, once our two children (ages at the time- 6 and 10) began school here, we found that Clayton schools were not all they were "cracked up to be" and would have been just as happy in University City. As a result, they are now in private school- which we've been EXTREMELY happy with.

We certainly know how difficult it can be moving to an unfamiliar city. We were very pleasantly surprised when we moved here! There are many cultural offerings- such as the wonderful St. Louis Symphony, Art Museum, Laumeir Sculpture Park, St. Louis Botanical Gardens, the History Museum and many galleries.

There are numerous educational opportunities for your children- such as the Science Center, St. Louis Symphony Music School, the Center of Contemporary Art, the Craft Alliance, the International Worldways Museum, etc... The list could go on and on...

Did you know that Forest Park is the second largest city park in the U.S., after Central Park?

Restaurants in St. Louis are fabulous. Try Tony's (rated #1 Italian Cuisine in the U.S. by Conde Nast Traveler), Zuzu's, Fitz's, Cafe Napoli, Brazzi's, Clancy's- just to start.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. But for the type of house/acreage you're looking for, you may need to look in the outer 'burbs- (depending on your budget) like the above posters stated. In Clayton or Ladue, you would pay upwards of $800,000 for a house with 5 bedrooms on three acres. In St. Charles County (about a 1/2 hour west), you could get it for 1/2 that.

Please feel free to e-mail me. I certainly did my homework when looking for private schools as well- so if you'd like, I'd be glad to point you in the right direction.

Susan: I would suggest your relative look in Olivette or St. Charles County- they could easily find reasonable housing in good school districts. St. Louis is definitely a city where your house cost directlty corresponds with the school district quality. Olivette has been increasing in price lately though. Olivette is one of the few areas that are comparatively more reasonable, but the schools are excellent. In St. Charles County, a brand new three bedroom house on a 1/2 acre can easily be purchased for $100,000. Good luck!