Buying property in Hawaii
Jan 26th, 2006, 08:04 AM
#2
There is almost no property available on Lanai, but Molokai and the "country" parts of the Big Island have lots of cheap land. Much of it is unimproved though- you'll need to bring in Electric and water possible.
Jan 26th, 2006, 08:29 AM
#5
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I suspect it may depend on your definiton of "reasonably priced."
I was in Hawaii (mainly Oahu) for a couple of weeks over the Christmas-New Years holiday and also in Kona for a short time.
Some folks in Honolulu County were complaining that their tax assessments keep going up and that the tax rates keep going up as well. Land, particularly fee simple land (assuming you can find some) has always been pricey in certain parts of the state. But you don't usually buy real estate with the hope that it will depreciate and if you could afford it it would almost undoubtedly turn a profit for you.
My friend in Kona recently bought a small place in the $800,000+ range; six months later, comparables are selling for $950,000 and up.
Is any of this reasonably-priced or is it just not reasonably priced to those who don't own any of it??????
I was in Hawaii (mainly Oahu) for a couple of weeks over the Christmas-New Years holiday and also in Kona for a short time.
Some folks in Honolulu County were complaining that their tax assessments keep going up and that the tax rates keep going up as well. Land, particularly fee simple land (assuming you can find some) has always been pricey in certain parts of the state. But you don't usually buy real estate with the hope that it will depreciate and if you could afford it it would almost undoubtedly turn a profit for you.
My friend in Kona recently bought a small place in the $800,000+ range; six months later, comparables are selling for $950,000 and up.
Is any of this reasonably-priced or is it just not reasonably priced to those who don't own any of it??????
Jan 26th, 2006, 09:57 AM
#6
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I would think a R6 Zoned Lot (R6 meaning six residential lots per acre) away from the beach and tourist areas for $150,000 would be cheap, $200,000 reasonable.
Again, I'm not looking just curious.
Property is much more expensive than that in my neighborhood so I understand the whole concept of the dirt being worth more than the structure.
Again, I'm not looking just curious.
Property is much more expensive than that in my neighborhood so I understand the whole concept of the dirt being worth more than the structure.
Jan 26th, 2006, 12:16 PM
#7
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Looking at Maui and Molokai, for example. Land (and structures) are very very expensive on Maui. Average home price on Maui listed as $750,000.
Listings on Molokai are more affordable, some land, far fewer amenities. Lanai has little listed at all.
If you are talking ocean front, just forget about either Maui or Molokai. You are looking in the million + range for land alone.
Listings on Molokai are more affordable, some land, far fewer amenities. Lanai has little listed at all.
If you are talking ocean front, just forget about either Maui or Molokai. You are looking in the million + range for land alone.
Jan 26th, 2006, 02:13 PM
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Well this is only partially related to the original question on land...but a few years ago we considered a condo in Kauai. In 2001 it was $220K for a 1 bed, 1 bath overlooking the ocean. This year, in the same building the same size condo was selling for $750K. Boy did we regret not just going for it a few years ago. I think it is only going up on just about every island. Down the street a new 200 unit property had condos for a starting price of $1.5 million and they were all sold out. There was also a 10 acre plot of land on the Napali coast that was only $25 million. We decided against it b/c it was just too darn perfect. LOL.
Jan 27th, 2006, 07:45 AM
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The Hawaii MLS is online at http://www.hawaiiinformation.com
Hawaii real estate prices have indeed gone insane, especially in the resort areas. But they also have done so in other areas such as California, New York, Florida, etc. There is a sense that the market is softening at least in the area that I watch - fee simple Poipu area condos. People are asking $2 million for a 2 bedroom at a building that isn't even on the water ! Leasehold is much less expensive to buy but you have to pay rent and miss out on the appreciation of the land.
Alan
Hawaii real estate prices have indeed gone insane, especially in the resort areas. But they also have done so in other areas such as California, New York, Florida, etc. There is a sense that the market is softening at least in the area that I watch - fee simple Poipu area condos. People are asking $2 million for a 2 bedroom at a building that isn't even on the water ! Leasehold is much less expensive to buy but you have to pay rent and miss out on the appreciation of the land.
Alan
Jan 27th, 2006, 09:42 AM
#12
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Yeah, insane is right.
What happens to all the people who work regular jobs in the hotels, resorts, driving tour buses, construction workers, teachers, etc when the prices are so scandalous? I don't understand where the lovely people who work to support the tourist industry are supposed to live. Surely they can't be making the $500,000 annual salary it takes to buy ordinary houses in Hawaii?
What happens to all the people who work regular jobs in the hotels, resorts, driving tour buses, construction workers, teachers, etc when the prices are so scandalous? I don't understand where the lovely people who work to support the tourist industry are supposed to live. Surely they can't be making the $500,000 annual salary it takes to buy ordinary houses in Hawaii?
Jan 27th, 2006, 09:55 AM
#13
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I think Hawaii has one of the, if not the highest bankruptcy states in the US. I think many people are living in their family's owned homes for years. A friend of ours purchased a home about 3 years ago for 800k and it's worth 1.7 now. They were used to high home prices because they lived in CA, the only reason they could afford the Hawaii home was because they made a great profit on their CA home. When they paid the 800k for that home I thought it was way overpriced then! 2400sq. feet in Honolulu. I remember seeing a 1000 sq. foot ocean front home on Kauai about 9 years ago asking 750k, why, why didn't we buy? Oh, that's right, we didn't have the $$
But what a steal that would have been.
But what a steal that would have been.
Jan 27th, 2006, 10:37 AM
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Ag, you are right on about housing not being affordable for the people who live in Kauai. What makes it worse is that many of the long term rentals are being converted to vacation rentals and that diminishes the supply. The local government only seems to want to build as many new resort condos as possible. Other than requiring a token number of "affordable" homes for each mega-resort they don't seem to do anything. It is a tough problem but I think there are a number of things that could be done by the government including tax law changes and forcing developers to build all kinds of housing and not just mega-resorts. It appears to me that the developers pretty much own the county government. In any case my feeling is that there are many speculators who are driving up prices and eventually they will move on to something else which will help.
Alan
Alan
Jan 27th, 2006, 10:38 AM
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Houses are very often passed down through families, as travelinwife mentioned, and several generations living together in one house isn't unheard of either.
The rental market is also incredibly tight. Selling property is so lucrative that many apartment buildings (and even old hotels) are being converted to condos, to the point where it's really hard to find an apartment.
The rental market is also incredibly tight. Selling property is so lucrative that many apartment buildings (and even old hotels) are being converted to condos, to the point where it's really hard to find an apartment.
Jan 27th, 2006, 01:13 PM
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As MerryTravel mentioned, several generations of families living in the same house is rather common. Many of the younger generation cannot afford to buy their own places, and expanding onto a family member's home is not uncommon.
I pass by several homes every day that are under currently under renovation - it looks like the yards are being sacrificed to make more room for the actual houses.
I also know of people that work several jobs and will never be able to afford to buy their own homes. They are afraid that when their leases are up, they won't be able to renew because the owner decided to sell - and since the rental market is so tight, it's an ordeal trying to find a decent (and affordable) rental.
As someone who has been saving for years and hoping to buy a place of my own sometime in the next couple of years - the inflation in Honolulu's real estate market has me more than a little depressed.
I pass by several homes every day that are under currently under renovation - it looks like the yards are being sacrificed to make more room for the actual houses.
I also know of people that work several jobs and will never be able to afford to buy their own homes. They are afraid that when their leases are up, they won't be able to renew because the owner decided to sell - and since the rental market is so tight, it's an ordeal trying to find a decent (and affordable) rental.
As someone who has been saving for years and hoping to buy a place of my own sometime in the next couple of years - the inflation in Honolulu's real estate market has me more than a little depressed.
Jan 27th, 2006, 08:58 PM
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My dad sent me this chat room because he knew I would have to say something.
Molokai and Lana'i are extremely expensive and no, they are not less than Oahu, Maui, Kauai and Hawaii if you compare like properties.
"Cheap Land" is relative....yes, on the big island you can find a lot for about $90k..but you are about 2 hours from anywhere, expect to pay thousands for power and water to the property, and hope and pray you can get cable or satellite. You also better hope your not in the way of a potential lava flow. Lots of cheap land for sale nearby the flow.
On Oahu, Maui and Kauai you will not find any lots in the rage of $150k. The value of the property is not in the home, it is in the land because there is only so much to go around. A "knockdown" house in my neighborhood sells for around $500k, a major fixer upper is about $650k. And we are talking 3-4 blocks from Kailua Beach, on a lots about 5,000-6,000 sq feet. My lot is considered large at 8K sq feet.
I live 3 blocks from the beach. Homes minimum are $759k (1,000 sq feet, 3/2). 2 Blocks, 900k+ (2 bed, 1bath fixer upper) , 1 block - 1M+, on the beach in Kailua/Lanikai - 4 to 12 million. Its not much different on any of the other islands unless you are inland.
Taxes are soaring, gas is outrageous (hit $3.80 in Lanai and $3.60 on Molokai) I cant see how young families will ever make it here again.
Molokai and Lana'i are extremely expensive and no, they are not less than Oahu, Maui, Kauai and Hawaii if you compare like properties.
"Cheap Land" is relative....yes, on the big island you can find a lot for about $90k..but you are about 2 hours from anywhere, expect to pay thousands for power and water to the property, and hope and pray you can get cable or satellite. You also better hope your not in the way of a potential lava flow. Lots of cheap land for sale nearby the flow.
On Oahu, Maui and Kauai you will not find any lots in the rage of $150k. The value of the property is not in the home, it is in the land because there is only so much to go around. A "knockdown" house in my neighborhood sells for around $500k, a major fixer upper is about $650k. And we are talking 3-4 blocks from Kailua Beach, on a lots about 5,000-6,000 sq feet. My lot is considered large at 8K sq feet.
I live 3 blocks from the beach. Homes minimum are $759k (1,000 sq feet, 3/2). 2 Blocks, 900k+ (2 bed, 1bath fixer upper) , 1 block - 1M+, on the beach in Kailua/Lanikai - 4 to 12 million. Its not much different on any of the other islands unless you are inland.
Taxes are soaring, gas is outrageous (hit $3.80 in Lanai and $3.60 on Molokai) I cant see how young families will ever make it here again.
Jan 27th, 2006, 09:57 PM
#18
Land in Hawaii has always been outrageous, but people do manage. Houses are small on small lots, families double up, people spend a big portion of their income on their mortgage, people work two jobs, and many parents will help their kids with downpayments.
The best way to afford a house in Hawaii (short of being born to a wealthy & generous family)has always been to start small (studio apt in town? bigger place farther out?) and trade up in tune with the up and down cycles of the real estate market. Obviously, timing and even luck play a part in this strategy, but on average it works.
Luckily we don't have to pay for insulating our homes, furnaces, or heating bills!
The best way to afford a house in Hawaii (short of being born to a wealthy & generous family)has always been to start small (studio apt in town? bigger place farther out?) and trade up in tune with the up and down cycles of the real estate market. Obviously, timing and even luck play a part in this strategy, but on average it works.
Luckily we don't have to pay for insulating our homes, furnaces, or heating bills!
Jan 28th, 2006, 06:23 AM
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True, but have you see the price of a small condo in town lately? Even the 'affordable' homes going up are in the $500k range and a studio LH is over $200k - add your $600+ monthly maint. fee and LH fee and your back to unaffordable again.
