NewbE

Here is an amusing article about the fact that Apple Pay has slipped into the marketplace so seamlessly that cashiers at stores that accept it are flabbergasted.
http://www.macworld.com/article/2837...-adorable.html

I think the security and flexibility of Apple Pay make it revolutionary for travelers in particular, although the big stumbling block now is that an enabled terminal is required. Still, companies such as Rite Aid, Walgreen's and others already have them; I think they are widespread in Japan. It may be ages before mom and pop shops get them, if they ever do, and that may hasten their demise; I won't be happy about that. But fighting the siren song of convenience is impossible. And Apple Pay is bloody convenient.

annhig

NewBe - in Europe [well certainly in the UK] we have contactless debit and credit cards - you just wave your card at the reader and the payment goes through. so you don't need a phone - the card does it automatically.

there is however a £20 limit per transaction, and there have been some teething troubles:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...ing-rules.html

it's really convenient when paying for small items but OTOH it further divorces the act of paying from the fact that you are actually spending money, which if you have to pay with cash is brought home to you rather more forcibly.

NewbE

Europe has been at the forefront of new payment technologies for ages. In the US, contactless payment has stalled. I certainly don't think an iPhone should be required to pay this way, but the reality is that Apple may be able to push the technology where banks have failed to. The point, IMO, is both convenience and greater security: retailers in the US have failed to protect their customers' sensitive data, and are tired of trying, and of spending money to try. Can Apple do much worse?

As for divorcing the act of paying from the realization that one is spending money... I don't disagree, but surely it is not Apple's job, or the job of a CC issuer, to instill financial responsibility in their customers.

NewbE

Btw, my understanding of Apple Pay is that one must enable a security code on one's phone and enter it, or one's fingerprint, on the phone before payment. Which would eliminate one problem the Telegraph article cites, which is of mistaken payments occurring without the cardholder's knowledge.

(Most people who have iPhones already use a security code; owners of an iPhone 5 or later model can use a fingerprint in addition. so it wouldn't be a new thing.)

annhig

that's a good point, NewbE - all you're required to do with a contactless debit or credit card is to wave it at the machine, and presumably some people have been waving them around without meaning to pay for anything. the phone system seems to be more secure.

however the technology is here, so if you have one of these cards, you need to be very careful that you keep it away from a card reader unless you want to pay for something.

Sojourntraveller

'Tap and Pay' is not new but as it exists with credit cards is easily subject to fraudulent transactions. If your card is lost/stolen, whoever has it can use it to 'Tap and Pay' until the card issuer cancels the card. ie. after you report it lost/stolen.

ApplePay requires your thumb print on the iPhone6 screen each time you use it. (That's the simple explanation)

My question as it was with your 20 cards in one post NewbE is what about liability? In this case, it seems at least 4 banks in the USA have already said they will accept liability if you use ApplePay with their credit cards.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/...7-availability

Another issue is will this be the Blueray vs. HD DVD optical disc story again. The same old story of competing systems both trying to capture a market and in the end one wins out while the other disappears.

The war from competing systems has already begun NewbE.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/25/7...-out-apple-pay

The Merchant backed system is called CurrentC and as you can see from the article, it has some heavy hitters backing it.

Add to that that ApplePay only works if you happen to have an Apple device. So here is a question I would have. If the average American consumer shops at Walmart and they use CurrentC and do not accept ApplePay, will Apple not support an app that allows the consumer who owns an iPhone, to use CurrentC? See the issue NewbE?

It could become an interesting battle. From a consumers point of view, one allows you to use credit cards while the other merchant backed system requires you to have cash in your bank account and in effect, pay cash. That also addresses annhig's point of divorcing you from the act of payment.

Also note that the merchants who currently have to pay a percentage when you use a credit card, are saying they will reward the consumer for using CurrentC in some way. Basically, pay us cash and you will pay less in the end than if you use a credit card. A not insignifigant point for those who don't live with credit card debt and minimum payment juggling.

NewbE

It will be a short battle, because CurrentC is utterly absurd technology--the article you link to, Sojourn, explains the QR code methodology, but furthermore, as you mention, CurrentC must be linked directly to a customer's checking account. Not a CC--your checking account. So the potential for fraud and hacking, and the vulnerability of your money, all increase exponentially. Not to mention that the lower income shoppers at WalMart are more likely to be unbanked.

As a consumer, what would I rather do? Door #1: enter a CC or two into my phone and use one of those to pay, verified by my fingerprint. Or, Door # 2: link my checking account, assuming I have one, to CurrentC, trusting it to keep that information secure, THEN deal with the QR code handshake, which is time consuming. And oh yes--not one single bank currently supports CurrentC, because it tries to cut them out as middlemen, which means you are unlikely to be protected in case your account is exposed to theft.

Lastly, do we really think these corporations--WalMart, Target, Rite Aid, CVS--will pass their "savings" on to consumers? I don't.

I am all for tech competition, and skeptical of an all Apple world, but CurrentC is a dog of an idea.

Sue_xx_yy

<i> So the potential for fraud and hacking, and the vulnerability of your money, all increase exponentially. Not to mention that the lower income shoppers at WalMart are more likely to be unbanked. </i>

NewBe, very good points.

NewbE

Thanks, Sue!

You know, the part about CurrentC that really doesn't make sense to me is that it wants to take your checking account information and safeguard it. Look how many big chain stores have been hacked in the last 5 years! If you were them, wouldn't you rather let Apple take responsibility for holding customers' CC data? Let Apple spend money to find new ways to keep it safe one step ahead of hackers! I can't imagine that saving transaction fees, which I know really add up, is worth the hassles that CurrentC presents for them.

NewbE

CurrentC has been hacked, before it had a chance to officialy debut:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/29/tech...tc-app-hacked/

Some tidbits:

"CurrentC has also come under recent scrutiny because of the data it collects on customers. A close look at the app's privacy policy reveals that signing up will require your "driver's license number, Social Security number, date of birth" and more "to authenticate your identity." The CurrentC app promises it doesn't use such information "for marketing purposes."

But MCX is free to share with marketers and other companies the rest of the data it collects: your name, home address, email, phone number and actual location at all times. Aside from payments, the app will also deliver coupons and help stores better track shoppers to target them for advertisements.

Apple (AAPL, Tech30) doesn't ask for your Social Security number. Google (GOOG) does. But that information is not passed on to retailers. MCX is itself a consortium of retailers."

And this:
"Cherian Abraham, a mobile payments expert, said this CurrentC hack is unfortunate but isn't reflective of the security of the actual app itself. But it still doesn't stack up to Apple Pay.
"Nothing comes close to the security apparatus Apple has created," Abraham said."