julies

Recently I asked about doing a bike & barge trip as a solo. Many of you convinced me to give it a try, and I think I am going to do this. But, now I need some further help on deciding on itineraries and routes. I have never been to either country except once during a layover we went into Amsterdam for a couple hours. I am coming from the US so would probably come in a couple days early on my own and would need to figure out where best to base myself then.

I am old, so let's assume that I probably won't be back. I like great scenery, interesting towns with interesting architecture, and visiting lesser known locales that have their own charms. I live in the US and have easy access to lovely natural areas so while I enjoy them I want to instead focus on things that are unique to this European area. I don't feel I need to see everything or all the big name places, and I prefer quality over quantity. I am not fond of tourist traps or overly Disneyesque places. I can cycle in traffic and don't need to ride exclusively on cycle paths. I am very well traveled and don't need hand-holding. Until very recently I had never done a group tour and had traveled independently all over the world for decades, but changed life circumstances are now making me do small group tours.

I would like your comments on 2 very different bike/barge trips I am considering (if I can still get a room their dates work for me). They are both very pricey IMO, but I think at this age I am willing to spring for it. One focuses on the western areas, and one makes a circle loop of the Netherlands. Each has pluses and minuses for me. Plus, I'll admit that as I get older I now want nicer lodging than in the past. In your opinion, which is most interesting route and has a better itinerary to enjoy the area's countryside and towns? And, if you think that neither one is a good choice as far as itinerary, please say so.

#1 Road Scholar tour https://www.roadscholar.org/find-an-adventure/10530/A-Cycling-Journey-Bike-and-Barge-in-Holland-and-Belgium/itinerary/

Day 1--No biking. Drive in bus from Amsterdam to Zaanse Schans to visit a klompenmaker. Take a bus to the barge which is moored in Amsterdam. Cruise through Utrecht to Vianen for docking—4.5 hours.

Day 2--18 miles biking. Barge to Schoonhoven and then bike to Kinderdijk. Board barge in Ablasserdam and motor 2 hours to Willamstadt for docking.

Day 3--27 miles biking. Visit Fort Sabina in Willamstadt and bike to Tholen. Barge from Tholen to Antwerp. After dinner on barge stroll around Antwerp.

Day 4--No biking. All day (and dinner) visiting Antwerp. Lecture on history of Antwerp, walk around, and a field trip to Red Star Line Museum. Dinner in town.

Day 5--24 miles of biking. In the morning boat via Albert Canal to the Kempen area. From there bike along Albert canal trail to Hasselt.

Day 6--26 miles of biking. In the morning visit Hasselt with a historian. After lunch there, bike on bike path to Maastricht in the Netherlands.

Day 7--No biking. Spend day in Maastricht. Morning lecture on history of Maastricht and group tour; rest of day unstructured.

Day 8--Bike 24 miles. In the morning the barge motors 3 hours to Born via the Juliana Canal. Get off at the locks and bike to the white village of Thorn (visit town) and bike to Roermond.

Day 9--Bike 30 miles to Venlo and visit the town where we take a tour of the church.

Day 10--29 miles of biking. Bike to Arcen and visit the gardens of the local castle. Bike more to Cuyk on Maas river. Lecture on history of the Netherlands.

Day 11--26 miles of biking. Barge to Lith. Bike to Den Bosch for lunch and explore the canals of the town. Take a boat ride through the Binnendieze. Bike to Heusden to meet the barge.

Day 12--25 miles of biking. Morning biking to explore village of Heusden. Bike to Loevestine to visit castle with a docent. Bike to Gorinchem and meet barge. Barge 3 hours to Vianen.

Day 13--Bike 11 miles from Breukelen for lunch in Nigtevetg. After lunch take barge 2 hours to Amsterdam.

Day 14--No biking. Mix of morning guided tour and afternoon free time in Amsterdam.

Day 15--tour ends


#2 https://www.merlijn.nu/our-tours/146...&-belgium.html
Day 1--No biking. Sail from Amsterdam to Haarlem. Time to walk around Haarlem after dinner.

Day 2--19 miles of biking. Cruise out from Haarlem. Stop and bike to Leiden.

Day 3--Bike 22 or 28 miles. Start cycling after breakfast and visit the Hague on the way. Bike to Delft and visit a pottery factory. Walk around Delft after dinner.

Day 4--19 or 22 miles of biking. Sail during breakfast and then bike through Rotterdam on cycle paths. Take the ferry to Kinderdijk. Bike to Papendrecht where you can either take take the fast ferry or you can bike into Dordrecht. Have dinner in town.

Day 5--28 miles of biking. Cruise to Willemstadt and spend time there. Bike to Tholen.

Day 6--Bike 12 miles to Kreekerak. Then cruise into Antwerp on the barge or bike all the way (19 miles) to Antwerp. Spend rest of day in Antwerp. Part guided tour and part free time. Dinner in town.

Day 7--28 miles of biking. Cross Schelde River through St. Anna Tunnel. Take bike path via Temse to Sint Amands.

Day 8--22 miles of biking. Cruise to Dendermonde and then start cycling to Ghent. Take a boat tour of the city’s canals. Bike to the ship’s berth which is quite a ways from the heart of the city.

Day 9--Biking 24 miles. In the morning boat to Aalter and then start biking to Bruges. After dinner stroll through city.

Day 10--Two different options available: Spend the day in Bruges doing sightseeing. Take a 34 mile bike ride to Oostende.

Day 11--Tour ends

I know many of you are very familiar with these areas. Thanks in advance for all of your advice and insights.

J62

Thats a lot of biking miles. - 2-3 hrs each riding day depending on the pace.

If you routinely ride 100 mi a week at home thats great. If not, be sure you adequately train. Even just time in the saddle it’s a lot. It can take a few weeks of saddle training to renumb all the nether parts - not something you want to try to do in the middle of a tour. Proper bike shorts are a must.

Also make sure you know what kind of bikes they use, and what pedal type. I ride a true road bike and will bring my own bike shoes and sometimes even pedals to ensure the right fit.

At least you wont have hills to deal with.

No opinion about one tour or another. Several other frequent posters are both bike riders and very familiar with NL/Belgium

julies

Thanks for responding. I have done cycling trips before so know what it entails (and I know I need to get out there and do some consistent riding). Additionally, now that I am older I have decided to use an e-bike. That teeny bit of boost when I need it more than compensates for the heavier weight of the bike. From what I have read about the Netherlands, the wind can be worse than hills elsewhere. And, even though I have some apprehensions about being on a barge, I can also see the benefits--just spending the day on the barge and not cycling if the weather is horrendous or if I am not feeling well.

bilboburgler

Just a quick thought on road cycling. The great thing about the Netherlands is the massive web of cycling routes everywhere. The second great thing about the Netherlands is their basic planning rules so that they control the speed of vehicles where people live, and provide faster roads as you move away from housing areas, the result of this is hard to describe but ... along with the third great thing is that the basic idea that in any accident between a bike and a vehicle any insurance company will side with the bike rider. Together this means that if you have to ride on the road you are very very safe.

So do use the cycling APP that Heti suggested in your previous thread (BTW I'd ask the moderators to link the two threads.)

The wind majority comes from the west. Worth taking that into your planning.

I'd take route 1, I've been to most of the places on both routes. On the other hand if you really want to go to Bruges then obviously go on 2. (if in doubt watch the film Bruges)

hetismij2

The second route is flatter. Limburg has hills, some are short but steep, but the first sounds the more interesting trip to me, also the fact it has a couple of no biking days is good.
If you can rent an ebike do so. It will be pedal assist only, no throttles allowed in Europe, with a maximum assist of 25 km/h, but it will help with hills/wind/tiredness. It really is worth the extra expense.

Edit: I should have said the first route may have some hills, it's a long time since I was in Limburg I admit, so I can't be certain of hills on the route given. DH lived there for many years for work.

julies

Thanks again to all!

I am still looking for additional input from other voices but have some related thoughts/questions.

I have no real familiarity at all with this area, but I have heard of some of the larger towns that are included in #2 like Delft and Ghent. (Both routes include Antwerp.) Would I regret not seeing those towns if I instead took #1 which includes a lot of places I have never heard of?

Bruges? I have read a lot about how touristy a place it is. I don't like towns that have turned themselves into nothing but tourist shops and restaurants that are jam-packed with tourists. I much prefer places where real people live. For example, we tried Carcassonne twice and never saw the appeal; Rothenburg also didn't really do much for us. In contrast to many other people, Barcelona also doesn't do a whole lot for me. OTOH, I know Venice is super touristy, but it is one of my favorite places, and we did a couple 5 to 7 day stays there. The secret is to know what to avoid and where to go instead. I am usually pretty good at getting off the lemmings' path and finding my way to quieter, less touristy parts of a city. So, I can't make up my mind if seeing Bruges is important or not and if I would just throw up my hands and think "get me out of here".

Comfort class of the barge also makes me think, but I really don't know if it is a true consideration or not. The boat used for #1 is categorized as 2 classes below the boat used for #2, and yet the daily cost for #1 is higher. Maybe class and category of the boat isn't that big of a deal. I don't know.

I like the fact that there are days off with no cycling on #1, but are Maastricht and Antwerp places where I would want to have an extra day to just see the place?

Finally, this is super super subjective, and I don't know if it should even be a part of my decision making. #1 is offered through Road Scholar which is a very well-known US tour company for people over 50. Undoubtedly all fellow participants will be from the US. I find it stimulating to meet and travel with people from other countries than my home country ( the US). It's just another component to my decision making process. And, especially in Europe, I don't need any hand-holding at all. I have a niggling suspicion that many fellow travelers on #1 may be wanting much more of this because they have very little or limited experience with traveling outside of the US. OTOH, perhaps with #2 I would end up on cruise with a mixture of people who primarily speak German (their website is in English and German). That could be a long 11 days for someone traveling solo.

Rambling thoughts I know, but they are factoring into my decision making process.

AlessandraZoe

I like the second itinerary better because I liked Delft, Hague, Antwerp, Ghent and Bruges. BUT there's a caveat with my opinion. Even though we were big cyclists and have done over 20 group cycling trips, we weren't cycling when we did the Netherlands. Instead, our Netherlands trip was one of our "art trips." We were totally invested in Northern Renaissance painters, and we used Amsterdam, Brussels and Den Hague as bases, doing daytrips out of a train station every day.

I laughed about the warnings of cycling 2-3 hours a day. It's not as though you are cycling the Tour de France. If people don't take cycling trips, they just don't get it.

However, I just saw that you gave up on NZ and my heart sank. I never saw that post. Our NZ cycling trip remains one of our top faves of all time. And it RAINED almost non-stop during it. There is just nothing that compares. We had three solos on that trip if you don't count my 19-yr-old daughter. It just worked so wonderfully.

Good luck planning. Hope you hear from someone who has done either trip.
AZ

hetismij2

Antwerp and Maastricht are absolutely places you can spend time on non cycling days. Visiting places you have never heard of means visiting places which are not as thronged with tourists and cars., but if you feel you would rather visit the places on the second cruise then go for it. If you want a day off one day I am sure you can stay onboard.

I do think one aimed primarily at English speaking tourists is better for you for your first solo trip.

There are plenty of companies offering barge and bike tours throughout both countries. Maybe there is another one which offers a route you prefer?
Do a search online and maybe see of the cruise critic site has reviews of such things.

If you decide in the end to do it yourself have a look at the Warm Showers website https://www.warmshowers.org/ and Vrienden op de fiets https://www.vriendenopdefiets.nl/en/ - at least you will have a friendly face at the end of a days cycling.

This website may help you too: https://wobblyride.com/2023/02/02/cy...touring-guide/

lavandula

Caveat that I haven't done a cycling tour before ... but I don't think you would be sorry to have extra time in Antwerp and Maastricht. Maastricht is just about my favourite city in the Netherlands - there is a wonderful bookstore in a former church, and just a lovely vibe. It's very different to other parts of the Netherlands in food and architecture; I think the word that gets applied to it is Burgundian. And Antwerp is fantastic also, lots of museums and a thriving nightlife. If you don't like over-touristed cities then I would venture to say that Bruges is not for you, and Ghent is going in the same direction nowadays because so many are trying to avoid the throngs of tourists you get in Bruges. Antwerp can absorb its tourism well, but it is a problem in Bruges and getting to be also in Ghent.

Lavandula

julies

This is great feedback from all of you. I am still debating what to do because both tours definitely have plusses and minuses for me. It's looking as though there may be a possibility of getting a significant last minute discount on one of them (maybe), and if so that will probably be the tie breaker. And, as suggested I am also still looking at other tour options.

I want to add that I have done 2 European group cycling tours in the past year; all participants on both were English speakers. There was a lot of group togetherness on both of them. I suspect that a barge tour would have even more group togetherness just because at least on a hotel based cycling tour there are many restaurant and hotel lounge escape places whereas on a barge it's just your cabin or the barge's common lounge.

Thanks.

julies

A quick update: I will be doing tour #2. They had a last minute sale waiving the single supplement, and this saves me a HUGE amount of money. Tour #1 is 14 nights rather than the 10 nights of Tour #2, but Tour #1 would also have cost me close to $6000 more. One of the issues for solo travelers doing a bike/barge trip is that the supplement for a solo traveler means that the single person who doesn't have a companion and also doesn't want to take pot luck on being paired up in a small cabin with someone else traveling solo pays close to double. For me it was a no-brainer to choose the tour where I wouldn't have to pay a single supplement.

Thanks for all of your advice even though my final decision came down to practicality and frugality.

AlessandraZoe

I think you made the right choice. 10 days--good. If it's a bad trip, you know you can talk yourself into focusing only on the good because you are getting off that barge within your lifetime. I'm hoping that the limited time on the trip allows you to add on more before/after things, too, to make your flight costs worthwhile.

And getting a single without a roommate is a blessing. If I were traveling alone, I'd like "retreat" time for sure. As I think I mentioned above, even with my family, I like to cycle alone. On all our cycling trips, sometimes the "tour company matched" roommates got along and sometimes they did not. On one trip, the roommate gave up getting along and slept on any available couch in hotel lobbies. The funny thing was that my family adored both of them.

I will be interested in your end-of-trip report because I liked your itinerary, and I hope it works out for you. Have to say that Bruges was the only "touristy" part of our daily adventures, yet we figured out how to zigzag our way through it pretty darn easily. We felt blessed to have seen Antwerp and Ghent, even if we hadn't seen the art. We liked their vibes. Our time in Delft was combined with our considerable museum time in den Hague, and we felt bad we didn't get to give it as much attention. We fell in love with it.

Happy travels,
Peddle hard,
AZ

hetismij2

Sounds like you made the right choice. I hope you have still booked an e-bike to make it easier into the wind!

As a trike rider such trips are out of the question for me sadly.

Happy pedalling. Please come back with a trip report.

WeisserTee

Real people do actually live in Bruges. To avoid most of the tourist crowds, head to the other side of t' Zand. This takes you into the scenic but much more residential, much less touristy parts of the city. And since you are staying overnight in Bruges, you'll find that even the tourist-oriented core is significantly less crowded in the evening after the day trippers have left and early in the morning, before they arrive.

hetismij2

The tour company you are using shares their name with my oldest grandson. I hope that is a good omen!