BDP21

Hello,

I'm coming to you all for some advice on our family's first trip to Europe. Background: parents have traveled to multiple countries as part of a group back in college and to Ireland on our own before kids but both trips were many years ago. We are now a family of 4 with kids who will be 13 and 10 when we take our trip in October of this year. The main catalyst for this trip is a memorial for my grandmother at our ancestral land in County Clare, Ireland. A large group of my extended family will be in County Clare from Oct. 17-20. That is the only part of our trip that is known for certain (and that may be bumped back a day or two but it will definitely be that week).

While I wait to learn the final set in stone date for the memorial, I am trying to figure out how to best configure our trip. We have about 2 weeks for the trip with a little flexibility in dates. I know that we could stay for 2 weeks easily in any of these places and have plenty to do; however, my kids have differing interests and my priority is making sure that this trip (though for a somber reason) is enjoyable for them. My daughter (10 year old) has her heart set on going to Paris, while my 13 year old son has his set on visiting Loch Ness. I would love to explore more of Ireland and show the kids where their dad and I explored on our last visit but our priority is truly making sure that we hit their highlights.

My thought was to fly from DC to Paris, stay 2-3 nights there and then move to Scotland. I'm torn between taking the train across to London and then Edinburgh maybe for a night or two before heading up to Inverness or flying straight to Scotland. We were thinking of traveling with a Eurail pass as we'd only have to pay for 3 of us that way if I understand correctly that my 10 yo will be free. If we did the train, is it worth a one or two night stay in London to see 1 or 2 highlights or is it better to just keep moving through if we can't stay longer? Do tours to Loch Ness go from Edinburgh or do we take the train to Inverness and then tour from there? Thinking we would do 2 nights in Scotland? I know there is so much to do in all of these places but our children have very short attention spans and will not spend hours and hours in one place.

Once in Scotland, is there any way to easily get to Ireland other than flying or is our best bet to fly from Edinburgh to Dublin or Shannon (family land is in County Clare so Shannon is closest airport and where we flew in last time)?

Our plan is to then fly back to DC from either Shannon or Dublin depending on timing, where else we may have time to explore, and flights available.

Open to any thoughts and suggestions people may have to help our family have a great trip knowing that our priorities are the dates in County Clare and getting the kids to their must-do places.

Thank you all so much for any help you can offer.

jconway82

Hi -

I have four kids and have taken them to about 20+ countries, mostly in Europe. I did Paris and London with the kids twice I think. I also did Paris-London-Ireland for our honeymoon. My first thought on reading your post is that you have two much on your agenda unless you are going for a month or more. I understand that you say your kids have short attention spans but if you do your itinerary most of it is going to be on a plane/train/car and likely in front of a screen. My thoughts:

Fly into Paris, spend a few days there, tons to see and do, and then do the Ireland trip.

Or do the Ireland trip and then fly into Edinburgh and tour a bit of Scotland. Frankly, I would skip Loch Ness as its really just another lake and you would have to make a huge effort to get there and you'd likely be disappointed. I think it would be better just to drive through the highlands a bit and see where that takes you. Much more interesting.

Just my two cents. Best, JC

BDP21

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate your time. However, Loch Ness is the one absolute must my 13 year old has requested so it's not really an option to cut out just his trip. If I can only do the family memorial in Ireland with no other time there in order to do both my kids' priorities, that's what we'll do.

janisj

Welcome to Fodors (welcome to jconway82 as well)

Of course Loch Ness needs to be included (even though it is not among the most scenic places in Scotland) -- we advise parents all the time to get the kids involved so when they have ideas to ignore them would be sad . . .

It seems the 'musts' are Paris, Loch Ness and County Clare. But to just devote 2 days to Scotland is really difficult (and a bit of a waste to be honest). I would plan something like a minimum 4 nights/3 full days in Paris -- but 5/4 would be better due to jet lag etc. 4 or 5 nights/4 days in Scotland and about the same in County Clare/nearby

Fly in to CDG, fly to EDI stay your whole time in the city and take this with Rabbies (or one of their other day trips) https://www.rabbies.com/en/scotland-...lands-day-tour Rabbies does small group tours never more than 16 people and often fewer. They are very good. With such a short time I wouldn't faff about with renting a car -- there is a LOT to see and do in Edinburgh and you could also do an easy day trip to Stirling Castle by train. Then there are flights from EDI to Dublin, Shannon and Cork . . .

Sassafrass

I hate to see you skip London because I think both kids would love it and it could easily connect Paris to Scotland. Also, your daughter is ten. She has years to go to Paris and see it properly. So, logically, I would do London, Scotland and Ireland. However, you are trying to be a great Mom and create a family trip and you do not have time to do it all. Two or even three nights in Paris after an international trip will not be fun, criminal almost. Flying around from place to place is not a great plan, but really, there is no choice if you want to give each child their dream plus Ireland and those are absolutely all you have time for. Plan very carefully or they may be disappointed with their choices. How you arrange the three bases will probably depend on the dates of the Ireland event. I doubt if, in your case, any kind of pass will be useful. You will not use it enough or on long enough routes to make it of any value.

janisj

Oh -- I overlooked the EurailPass comment. You would get absolutely no benefit buying expensive EurailPasses -- they are seldom a good deal but especially not for an itinerary like this one.

BDP21

Thank you so much! This is great help! It is so important to me to not ignore their must-dos when we've asked for their input. I'm not sure if my kids would do well on a group tour but I will definitely look into it. Would taking the train to Inverness from Edinburgh be an option to see some of that beautiful scenery? I would rather not rent a car other than in Ireland if we can help it but definitely willing to if that's better than a train if we don't feel like the tour will accommodate our special needs. The kids definitely want to ride a train somewhere so if we skip London, I was thinking a train to Inverness might be an option but definitely open to doing that somewhere else. Thinking if we do 3 nights in Paris and then 3 nights in Scotland, that will still give us between 4-6 nights in Ireland, 3 of which are spoken for in County Clare but we can definitely do day trips away from our base for a couple of those days. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help us!

Thank you! That's helpful - we will not do Eurail given that we likely won't end up in London since the better plan seems to be to go straight to Scotland. We could do Paris last so that we wouldn't be as jet-lagged but I worry that we will be getting to the end of my son's tolerance for being away from routine... I will definitely consider that, though. Thank you again.

Thank you! I'll mark running those comparisons off my list and just get whatever train tickets we need separately. Am I correct that my daughter (10) will not need.a separate ticket but my son (13) will need a "youth" fare? Thanks again!

janisj

I would not generally recommend a group tour for kids -- but Rabbies is different. They use minivans -- it isn't a but bus full of old codgers They are geared to more active people and are about the best way to get out into the countryside without a car. Very often there are teens/tweens on the tours.

Rabbies also does a few tours starting from Inverness and this one would be an absolute kick for your son https://www.rabbies.com/en/scotland-...from-inverness They also do private tours so if say the Inverness/Loch Ness tour isn't available on your date they could maybe do the same one for just for your family -- costing more ££ of course.

The issue is the train from Edinburgh to Inverness takes almost 4 hours each way. You could take an afternoon train from Edinburgh, stay the night, take the Rabbies tour then take an early evening train back down to Edinburgh.

janisj

oops -- the link is just the general Rabbies site - will try again

https://www.rabbies.com/en/scotland-...ience-day-tour

Lexma90

I understand your trying to meet each kid's greatest desire, but I suggest that you sit down with them, a calendar and a map, and walk through with them how much travel time will be involved to do everything. The point of this will not be to crush their hopes and desires, but to continue to keep them involved in the decision-making. For example, watch videos of Loch Ness, look it up on the map, look at the Rabbies description, of the tour that may include a 4-hour drive each way. Does your son want to sit in a minivan for 4 hours (or whatever the time is)? Then watch videos of Edinburgh, London, Paris, whatever. Let them look at castles, castle tours, the Tower of London, etc. Each of them might decide that they would rather do something else that doesn't involve as much transport. Or, for example, if you visit Scotland and Ireland this trip, then on the next trip, you could spend the entire trip in Paris and visiting chateaux in the Loire Valley.

I also would recommend that two nights in any of these places is not enough time to enjoy being there.

janisj

To clarify - If they take the tour from Inverness -- they will be tight there -- with a hotel likely walking distance to the pick up point . . .

Rabbies tours don't spend hours just sitting in the van -- you are out and exploring on foot, and the tour out of Inverness even includes an hour at Urquhart Castle and a cruise on the Loch.

mjs

I agree with Lexma90. I also would not go to Scotland for a few days to mostly see the Loc which is not particularly special from my point of view. I have two children and we have done something like 45 trips abroad and my children have been fine with my choices for destinations although now they do most of the work as to what we are doing during the trip. I personally would do Paris, London and Ireland although I understand You are not me. There are a ton of things in London for children of your ages and they might be interested in the train that goes underwater. Paris Disneyland might also be an attraction vs time going to Scotland. Do not need a train pass but will need a car in Ireland.

janisj

The OP has very clearly stated (twice) that Loch Ness is non-negotiable. So instead of telling them its is wrong to include it, why not try to offer solutions. I agree -- a 2-day lightning visit to Scotland is a non-starter. But with four days it is totally doable.

mjs

When it comes to children at that age nothing is ever non negotiable.

KTtravel

I think janis's suggestions are excellent for this family trip.

Green83

I agree with the post above. Edinburgh is my favorite destination in Europe because it still retains its authenticity. The kids will enjoy roaming around the Edinburgh castle and Holyrood house. Make sure to learn about Mary Queen of Scott’s first. Edinburgh has so many activities for kids and great museums.

We took the little red van tours (not Rabbies but a similar company) and they were fantastic and surprisingly affordable. We took two day trips to Northern England including one to the island of Lindisfarne (tidal island with Viking history) that included a visit to a huge castle that has a massive treehouse playground and a maze. Another tour went to Hadrians Wall that was fun to explore. We took tours to St Andrew’s, and one to Lochness that included the highlands. These tours are active so your kids won’t be bored. My kids loved the Lochness boat tour plus the highlands. It’s beautiful.

My hesitation here would be the likelihood of rain in October. September is a much better month to travel to Scotland and Ireland.

bilboburgler

For such a short holiday I'd drop one of Ireland, Scotland or Paris

BDP21

Thank you all, especially janisj. I do understand that this not what most people would do and that others have other priorities but, as janisj reiterated for me, all three locations are non-negotiable. I have discussed thoroughly with my children what this will mean and that we will be spending a lot of time traveling in airports and trains - that is a feature not a bug for them. For those who continue to tell me to save one or the other for another trip, we are not a family that can just hop on another plane to Europe and plan another trip in the next few years. This is likely the only trip we will take while they are still living at home.

Gardyloo

I think your original plan is fine, with a couple of provisos.

I think the Paris > Scotland > Ireland order of things works well, and much as I agree with Janis in general on using Rabbie's, in your case I'd probably make an exception of it and fly from Paris to Inverness (around $200 and 5 hours via Amsterdam on KLM) and collect a car in Inverness airport. There are comfortable lodgings near the airport including a completely satisfactory Holiday Inn Express.

Early October in the Highlands can be glorious, and if you're coming to visit Loch Ness (which is, you'll discover, pretty underwhelming) you might as well (or indeed, should) capitalize on the opportunity to see some serious scenery while you're in the area.

So what I'd suggest the next day would be a drive down the Great Glen, past Loch Ness, possibly stopping at Urquhart Castle overlooking the loch, to Fort William, but detour west to see the "Harry Potter" rail viaduct in gorgeous Glenfinnan, then on to Glen Coe for the evening. The next day, travel through beautiful Glen Coe (and possibly a detour down the even more beautiful Glen Etive) before dropping the car at Edinburgh airport, possibly staying in an airport area hotel. If time permits, spend the next day touring the city, then fly to Ireland either that evening or the next morning. I'm pretty sure the only airline flying from Edinburgh to Shannon is the budget carrier Ryanair, which is pretty uncomfortable but it's only an hour's flight; otherwise you can head to Dublin easily enough.

One way car rentals in the UK typically aren't subject to the very high one-way surcharges that they draw in North America, and you'd only need it for a couple of days. We don't know if you plan to rent a vehicle in Ireland, but if you need to get used to driving on the left, rural Scotland is as good as any place, especially at a time of year when the peak tourist traffic is gone.

Here's a map showing the driving route through Scotland; google the places on it. https://maps.app.goo.gl/wwo6DvcKqD6eiYok8

janisj

Something like Gardyloo's suggestion is something I would have suggested -- the main reason I didn't was because there being no direct or non-stop flights between Paris and Inverness. IF connecting and taking most of a day in transit from Paris would be acceptable then 100% consider something like that. Loch Ness/Urquhart/possibly an hour's cruise on the loch, Glenfinan/the viaduct, Glencoe - ticks soooooo many boxes.