gummibear

Hello! Our family (2 adults, 8 and 5 yo kids) will be exploring northern Italy for the first time this summer (early July). I know the crowds will be tough but have to work around school breaks...

This forum is a wonderful resource! I would love some feedback/advice on our plan if possible? My main question is about transit between locations. We would very much like to see a combination of the "classic" Italian sights/locations (I promised the 8yo we would see the Tower of Pisa and ride the canals in Venice), but also some off-the-beaten-path places to try and get a feel for the culture away from tourist hotspots. We have not filled in the specific destinations yet, as I would love to make sure the general layout of our trip makes sense and is doable in the summer heat and crowds!

- Total: 13 days not including arrive/depart
- Day 0: Fly into Milan (airports are not flexible unfortunately), arrive 1pm local time. Rent a car and drive to Lake Garda. Staying at Villa Cortine (4 nights).
- Day 1-3: Reset kiddo's body clocks, explore Lake Garda area (hopefully on foot?), take it slow and enjoy the beauty.
- Day 4: Leave Lake Garda in early morning, drive to Fruili-Venezia area and explore. Arrive in evening at Venice. Staying at Hilton Garden Inn Venice (2 nights). Considering returning rental car in Venice on this day and rest of trip by train?
- Day 5: Explore Venice.
- Day 6: Leave Venice, train (or still rental car) to Florence. Stop at either Modena or Bologna on the way. (Whichever of these we do not visit on the way to Florence will be a day trip from Florence later). Stay at Antice Torre Hotel in Florence (5 nights).
- Day 7-8: Explore Florence. Would possibly return rental car on this day if still have it.
- Day 9: Day trip from Florence (Bologna or Modena by train).
- Day 10: Day trip from Florence. Pisa by train?
- Day 11: Train to Milan. Staying at Mandarin Oriental (3 nights).
- Day 12-13: Explore Milan.

We are considering keeping the rental for the whole trip, only because of the logistics of getting from town to town with 2 kids and luggage and worry about packed trains in the summer. And will we be able to see smaller towns and out-of-the-way places without a car?

omryv

I've been to northern Italy 3 times and always with a car. The rental prices were always reasonable and the flexibility was totally worth it.

raincitygirl

The Hilton Garden Inn is in Mestre, not Venice itself and with only a short time in Venice I'd want to stay actually in Venice.
I'd get rid of the rental car in Venice. We've done the drive from Florence to Venice and long parts of it are lots of tunnels and boring. It would be easier to take the train. Also have you looked into the ZTL zones for all the cities you would visit by car? Something you need to be aware of because it's easy to miss the signs and get ticketed, also you need to plan in advance for where you can park that doesnt necessitate entering the ZTL.
You can easily do your day trips from Florence by train. I've taken the fast train between Milan and Florence ( I used Italo Treno) and it was great. Also it was full of families with kids so there's a taste of Italian culture for you.

Sassafrass

Not sure how I would arrange the entire trip, but In July, there is no way I would stay in hot, muggy, crowded Florence with kids for five nights or spend three nights in Milan. An agriturismo with a pool somewhere in the countryside of Tuscany would be great. There are lots of smaller towns like Lucca in Tuscany and Bergamo near Milan to visit and which the kids could explore. There are many other, probably better, that others can share. Crowds will be horrendous in Venice, so I would actually stay longer and take a day trip away or go to the other islands during the day and do walking and exploring of Venice early morning and late evening after crowds have lessened a bit.

raincitygirl

Good points Sassafrass re hot muggy Florence and crowds in Venice. I too would spend more time in Venice.

Near Florence in Bagno a Ripoli we stayed at the Villa Olmi which has a pool, and free parking if you did decide to keep the car. The hotel runs a shuttle into Florence, it's only a few kilometres away and a couple of times we taxiied back to the hotel rather than wait for the shuttle and it wasn't terribly expensive. The hotel itself was lovely with an included breakfast and we did eat dinner in Bagno a Ripoli a couple of times which was great. ( and delicious)

When our son was 14 and we took him to Italy it was also July and we didn't stay in Florence we stayed in a gorgeous place in Greve -the Villa Bordoni which is a converted villa, also with pool and in the countryside. We had a car here and did long day trips to Lucca, Pisa, a beach club on the coast, it was great but it's a little pricey. There will be other places similar in the countryside with lower price points.

Not sure what you want to do in Milan with 3 days? Milan is great but not sure it has enough things for young children to be excited about; I think you'd be better taking those days or most of them and adding them to Venice. Venice also has the Lido which has a beach which your kids might enjoy.

bilboburgler

if you are in a city or going city to city then train is best
If you are going to stay in the country then car is often better, cars can be taxis
Do you understand ZTLs?
July can be hot and humid

janisj

Lots of good advice above - just one more quick comment re the ZTLs. Not only will you not know you are ticketed until after you return home and have to pay the fines . . . the rental car agency will charge you a fairly substantial administration fee for giving the authorities your contact information.

Jean

Whether you can explore Lake Garda "on foot" depends on what you want to see and whether the ferry timetables "work" for your plans. Study the timetables.

https://www.navigazionelaghi.it/risultati?lake=Garda
[You'll have to wait a few months for the summer timetables to be posted.]

Driving from Malpensa to Sirmione after a long flight is not a good idea, but hopping on and off trains and taxis after a long flight isn't very appealing either. Esp. with little kids in tow. You've boxed yourselves into a tough first day with your Malpensa-only arrival. I think you'd be better off heading to Florence first and putting Lake Garda last. The drive from Malpensa to Sirmione is 2.5 hours, not counting time/logistics to rent the car, and the train from Malpensa to Florence would take 3.5 hours with one change. So, about the same, although I think riding on a train is more comfortable than sitting in a car.

I agree with the suggestion to shift a night or two from Milan and add it to Venice. Definitely stay IN Venice. Be careful as you plan your Florence sightseeing and day trips out of the city as most of the main sights are not open every Sunday and Monday. If you were hoping to climb the Leaning Tower, your 5 y.o. is too young.

I don't think the idea of "exploring" Fruili-Venezia in one day of driving is realistic. Obviously, you can spend a day just driving around, but what do you want to see? There will be a one-way surcharge on the car rental unless you rent and return at the same location. Have you checked the cost?

Unless you are all somewhat immune to heat and humidity, you will probably not be able to do as much sightseeing everywhere, every day as you hoped. You may decide to retreat to your hotel in the middle of the day some days to relax and cool down.

dreamon

I would hesitate to drive on arrival in Italy and if you want to explore lake Garda by foot and ferry, then your car will be sitting idle. Taking a train on arrival to your first destination would be better and more relaxing. If you're not exploring the countryside, then I wouldn't bother with a car.

Friuli Venezia is a whole region and is east of Venice so I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense. But you could travel via places like Bassano del Grappa, Belluno, etc. which are just as attractive and with far less driving. There are buses which take this route if preferred.

Personally (and especially with kids) I'd choose to stay in Lucca instead of Florence. Check it out if interested in an alternative. Staying in the countryside with a pool would probably be nice (I've never done it) but I'd like to be able to walk out for an aperitif, dinner, gelato etc and not have to get in a car to do this.

With kids and in the summer, I'd stick with 2 nights in Milan rather than 3 - or consider staying somewhere like Stresa on lake Maggiore. There are buses from there to Malpensa if needed.

Have a lovely time. It's just the best travelling with kids. An Italian style afternoon rest can be great for everyone.

yorkshire

I don't see any benefit of having a car in this itinerary. I'd consider longer in Venice and shorter in Milan.

bilboburgler

just a thought lake como has a cycle path around it, garda has a partial one. You could hire bikes and tagalongs to see the sights

Sassafrass

https://www.visittuscany.com/en/idea...sites-tuscany/

Locking in flights before an itinerary is well and truly pinned down is often a mistake. The time and cost of RT, backtracking to the arrival city needs to be considered. It is usually best to arrive or depart near the place you actually wish to see. I can’t personally say, not having been there, but that makes the advice to end in Stressa sound good.
If you are actually exploring the countryside, then a car can be good. However, for most of the places you have mentioned, a train is better. It takes you right to the city center or very near in most towns, so no parking, no traffic jams, etc. Trains are great for kids too. They don’t have to be in seat belts or a car seat or booster. They can walk around. You can pick up food to have on the train. There may be little tables they can use for eating. They can go to the toilet whenever they wish. On arrival too, it is easy to just hop on a train rather than messing around getting the car rental and trying to drive in unfamiliar places.

The itinerary.
Heading straight on to a Tuscany location by train is very good suggestion.. You can rest on the train. With kids, I too would likely choose Lucca for the reasons posted above, great places to walk and bike, easy to walk to restaurants, etc. It is very easy to get to Florence and Pisa from Lucca by train, making Lucca an easy choice. You could always take a tour or rent a car for a day in the countryside.

If you decided on an agriturismo, you would need a car. That is a different kind of vacation. Might be nice for four or more nights.

I might also choose a place I rarely see mentioned here: the spa town of Montecatini Terme, I have stayed there twice and liked it a lot. I had kids with me and they loved it! Rather than describe why, I will just post links, one above and this one. I would have to research transportation before making the decision.
https://www.visittuscany.com/en/idea...to-see-and-do/

Venice: would definitely not stay in Mestre! With kids, I would strongly consider staying on the Lido. They could have a bit of beach time. There are plenty of restaurants. It is a lovely vaporetto ride into Venice. You could easily go to Burano, Murano, etc. In Venice, Dorsoduro would also be a good area with kids, quiet, great ice cream places, etc. Stay in Venice at least three nights!

Rather than drive around that one day (if you decide you do not want to go on to Tuscany at the beginning), go on to Venice for an extra day. You could also make your first stop Verona (lovely for walking) for the night, or Vicenza (charming small city center) or Padua or Bologna, etc. Normally, I don’t recommend one night stays, but each of those places is easy by train and easy to get to the town centers.

I would try very hard to limit trip to four hotels.

scrb11

Sounds like the OP has booked flights and the hotels or some of them already.

I just booked a flight and rental car in the Milan area as well for July, about $90 a day for a 10 day rental so price are up. Most other rental options were well over $1000.

Most interesting part of Lake Garda for me was the northern part of the Lake but that takes them far away from Venice. Also agree about not driving after taking an intercontinental flight.

Agree with others, if you've never been to Venice, spend at least 2-3 days (or 3-4 nights) in Venice.

For Florence, just make sure the hotel rooms have AC.

Jean

FWIW, I would want A/C everywhere on this trip.

Sassafrass

Sorry, should be Stresa.

gummibear

These replies are all very helpful - thank you! We will likely be skipping car rental altogether after further review. We did get confirmation from our hotels that they would add the rental car to an allowed list for ZTL so we could proceed to hotel parking in Florence for example, would that work out OK in the event we decided to rent a car later?

Few added details for context: Our plan for Florence and Milan respectively was to use each as a base for day trips (Florence - Pisa/Lucca and Siena each for a day, Milan - Bergamo, deciding between a visit to Como or some other short trip), is this not a good idea with the goal of reducing the number of hotel changes? (And to the point of numerous others here, our kids will likely not have it in them to put up 14 hour days in the sun, so each day is going to be somewhat limited and we don't want to feel rushed...)

dreamon

gummibear, I think having fewer hotel changes is very sensible. My personal preference would run to having the same number of stays but opting for smaller towns (especially in summer) but there is nothing wrong with Florence and Milan (on the contrary) and they make good hubs for transport.

I can't tell you anything about ZTLs because we almost never hire cars when holidaying in Europe (one of the many reasons I love it there).

scrb11

Be careful about hotels and ZTLs.

In many cases, they give you directions to enter the ZTL and arrive at the hotel, in order to drop off luggage. They can then tell the local police the make and model of your car and the plate number so that they don't process a bill for the camera capturing your car as it enters the ZTL.

But you may not be able to keep your car at the hotel. Rather you're expected to park somewhere outside the center, which typically don't have a lot of parking. That is the case in Siena, all the parking is outside the walls and the ZTL zones but some hotels in the center will arrange to exempt you from fines for arriving with your luggage. Parking is often a 1-2 kilometers or more away.

Sassafrass

That is exactly why where you stay and how long you stay is so important. Staying very close to where you want to sight see, so you can walk right out of the door and be doing things in the morning, and perhaps return to your hotel in the afternoon for a swim or to relax before going out to explore and eat in the evening is ideal. That is why people say stay in Venice, definitely not Mestre. That is why I don’t think day trips from Milan are a good idea. If you want to go to Lake Como, then stay somewhere there. Florence is fine for day trips in cooler weather, but not so great in July. Siena will be so crowded and hot. So will Pisa and Lucca, but at least in Lucca, there are things to do and you could return to a hotel when it gets hot or the kids get tired. An early morning or late in the afternoon to Pisa is OK. You could do that from either Lucca or Florence. I would stay in Florence only for the time I wanted to sight see in Florence, even if it means changing hotels.

jan47ete

Just got back from Northern Italy but have been to all the places you are hoping to vist.

Arrived Milan and immediately went to Como for 3 days. Loved it and I think kids would enjoy the ferry rides and get over jet lag better. Milan was hectic, crowded, overwhelming and not sure there is really enough for your kids. I went to Pavia, Lodi, Cremona but all old and including Milan LOTS of churches.

Bergamo Alta a delight, about 3 funiculars the kids would love. Locando Mimmo a great place to stay.

I enjoyed Torino but especially 2 similar Cinque Terre towns in Boccadasse, a quick bus ride, and Camogli about an hour away by train with extraordinary views.

Bologna-I LOVED Bologna.

Florence: we rented a car, parked it in front of our apt, I stayed with the car, hubby got bags, and 6 months later got a fine. Car in Florence is not worth the worry. Fisole is a bus ride away to stay outside the city. Might be a good area for agriturismos to stay. I was in Venice in May 2022, extremely crowded and if possible I would check if a cruise ship is in port to maybe avoid being there on those days. Vaporettos were extremely, extremely crowded.

In Siena we stayed on a farm of some sort right at the end of a bus line. Left the car there and took the bus in. very easy.