utedog

I'll be travelling to Switzerland in June 2019 (arriving on the 14th). We’re a family of 4 (kids aged 7 and 10). We will have a hire car for the entire trip, thus it’s unlikely we’ll see the value in buying a half-fare pass (even though they’re a great deal).

At present our itinerary will be something like 1 night in Zurich, approx 3 nights split between Lucerne and Interlaken (with a day trip out to see the falls around Lauterbrunnen) [might be able to find a fourth night for this area if I am lucky], then we’ll pass through Bern for a quick look and will stay a couple of days around Gruyeres. From there we head to Annecy in France, spend a few days making our way toward Nice and head around the Italian coastline a bit to Florence before tripping over to Venice, back to Lugano to return the car and fly out from Milan (MXP).

We are *definitely* budget travellers (yes I know that doesn’t go well in Switzerland, but we’ll manage)! As such I tend to spend a lot of time comparing the possibilities so that I can try and make the best choice (not necessarily the cheapest, but the most ‘economical’ when taking into account what we get for the money). So, onto my questions:

I can’t see any way that we would realistically consider a trip up the Schilthorn or Jungfraujoch. But certainly we want to see high mountains since there is no such thing (comparatively speaking) here in Australia. I’ve read a bunch of comments online about the usual suspects like Rigi, Pilatus and Titlis. I’m struggling to make a choice since I can’t make a comparison of what I get for my money (having never seen the views from each)! The picture in my head of Switzerland is high snow-capped peaks so I’d love to have a view of them in real life. Due to our funds we would only go up one of the mountains. Rigi appears to be the cheapest, then Pilatus and finally Titlis.

However I’ve also considered the Stanserhorn which looks quite good (prices similar to Rigi, or less for some options). And I have looked at Le Moleson near Gruyeres. The value there is fantastic for a family – we can spend a whole day on the mountain including Funicular, cable car, hiking, bobsleigh, cart, mini golf, playground, etc – all for less than the cost to go up even Rigi (which has no added extras). As such I assume the view is nowhere near in the league of the others. Has anyone here ever been up Stanserhorn or Le Moleson (or heard much about them)?

Given my desire to see a great view of the mountains (but still considering the economics) what would be your recommendation? I assume we’ll be able to see snow-covered peaks in the distance even in summer? Would there be any chance we’d get to touch snow on any of these mountains at that time of year?

Next on the agenda: even though we’ll have a car it seems criminal to come to Switzerland and not take a train journey into the mountains. I’d love to take a journey with a view – say something around 1 ½ hours round trip (or max 1hr there, stop for a bit then 1 hour back, if not a round trip). I’m aware that there is a Silver Round Trip for Pilatus. Any idea whether that is a picturesque journey for the leg on the train (and thus we could ‘kill two birds with one stone’ on Pilatus) – it looks like it’s in the valley, so probably not what I’m after? Would there be a better option for a train journey somewhere in this area or that around Gruyeres that you might recommend? It doesn’t have to be a fancy train with panoramic windows – regular is fine – so long as the scenery is amazing!!

After Annecy we will drive over the Col du Galibier (2,645m) and hope to stay in La Grave. From La Grave here is a cable car up the La Meije glacier which gets out at 3,200m. The price is a fraction of the mountains in Switzerland (50 Euro for the whole family). I am wondering whether our appetite for views (and a possibility to touch snow) might be satisfied on either of these peaks. I may consider going up La Meije as well as one of the lower-cost peaks in Switzerland if it seems worthwhile.

I know my post has been rather wordy, but hopefully it gives you enough information on what we’d like to accomplish so that you can make a recommendation. Thanks so much for your time.

kerouac

In June, quite a few of the mountain passes are not open yet, so you will have to get information about that after you have arrived.

Nelson

I've only been to this area once, not very knowledgeable, so this idea may not hold water. But since you are driving from Gruyeres to Annecy perhaps spend a night or even two in Chamonix, right at the base of Mont Blanc? You could go up the Aiguille du Midi, which I think is one of the most spectacular mountain vistas I have ever seen that does not require a long hard walk. Also you could take the Montenvers Mer du Glace train for a different close up view of a big glacier. Neither is cheap but both could be what you are looking for, an intimate view of big snowy mountains and glaciers, a lot of bang for the buck. Good luck.

PalenQ

Just drive from Interlaken to Grindelwald - cars allowed - stay the night or just spend few hours eyeball to eyeball with glacier-girdled soaring peaks - easily done. Lauterbrunnen is neat too but in a deep gorge so views are not so encompassing but the falls, unless dry, are.

Michael

We saw snow and glaciers in Chamonix. If you drive the route des Grandes Alpes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_des_Grandes_Alpes you will see a lot of high mountains. It can be done in two days from Chamonix to the Mediterranean, three might be better.

Here are pictures that I took when we traveled in the Alps: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmgg3YNq there is a travel report from last summer attached to it; click on my name to find it.

kerouac

And while we're at it, here is what Chamonix looks like in late summer: Chamonix in the summer | Any Port in a Storm

whitehall

Have you looked at cost of rental cars? It’s normally costly to return to a second country, but a quick check on Auto Europe oddly showed it significantly cheaper (still expensive) to rent Zurich to Milan than Zurich to Lugano. We were in Switzerland, Austria and Germany in September, and found it very convenient to use trains there. And we switched to an inexpensive rental car in Italy and avoided the high surcharge for Switzerland. Don't forget gasoline is expensive in Europe, and you need to factor those costs into your analysis.

Our trip report that included Zurich, Bern and Jungfrau is here:
3 Countries, 8 Places, 8 Nights, Awesome!

Our biggest extravagance was our Schilthorn day which requires the great weather we had to make it worthwhile, but it was one of the best days of our trip. You could dramatically reduce the cost by eliminating the Schilthorn/ Brig costly cable cars, and you can still get the feeling of the Swiss high mountains, ride cable cars and trains.

We did not buy the half fare Swiss card (because our visit was brief) and instead pre-purchased rail tickets at discount prices that were available for certain times about 30 days out.

Absolutely consider airbnb, or similar apartment/whole house rental for best rates for a family of four plus full kitchen to help reduce food costs. There are so many excellent, well-priced food markets (even in Switzerland) to help give you good quality food at reasonable prices.

Zurich may disappoint, but we enjoyed Bern more.

Use google offline maps for GPS without worrying about data or wifi. They work just like home with verbal commands, etc., at least for driving instructions.

It sounds like you don’t have a specific itinerary for the Italian portion. There are many wonderful airbnb apartments all over Italy for $75-100, especially if you stay outside places like Florence and Venice. You will be turned off by crowds in both Florence and Venice, which is a must see anyway. If you aren’t into the art museums in Florence, you can easily skip it and focus on smaller cities/towns. There are 100 or more places worth visiting in Italy that might be as memorable.

If you look at our link, you will see trip reports for Italian lakes (Orta, Maggiore, Como, Iseo and Garda), all places worth considering, especially with a family. How about a bike ride around Lake Garda on the new cycle path that floats over the water?

kja

As whitehall notes, do factor in the cost of fuel before concluding that a car will suit your needs better than public transportation. And think about the consequences for the driver, who will not be able to appreciate the stunning Swiss scenery in the same way (because s/he will need to attend to the road). Swiss trains are incredibly comfortable and convenient and will provide you with relatively inexpensive options for storing or forwarding luggage that might prove useful.

FWIW, I’m not sure I understand your itinerary -- your time in / around Gruyeres seems disporportionately long relative to the time you are planning elsewhere. Just a thought.

For a budget traveler in the Bernese Oberland, give some thought to the Hotel Staubbach in Lauterbrunnen, specifically, the rooms that don’t face the falls. Even though the room itself would not have particularly memorable views, you would have access to shared balconies with a view of the falls and snow-capped peaks in the distance. As a bonus, the “back” rooms are more quiet than the ones in front. From there, you have easy access to some of the most stunning vistas of the Bernese Oberland: the train to Wengen and then cable car to Männlichen and/or the cable car to Grütschalp and then the walk to Mürren. No need to visit Jungfraujoch or Schilthorn if you don’t want to do so.

I have to admit that I was not overly enamored of the terrain in / around Gruyeres – it is lovely, but to my eye, it doesn’t generally afford the same kind of stunning peaks as the Bernese Oberland or other parts of the Alps. JMO.

Dukey1

The kids are young enough to travel for free on a family pass I believe. I would re-think the whole "hire car" idea if I were you

utedog

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions. I have checked out the photos, etc too that were linked to. I will certainly consider Chamonix / Mt Blanc.

@whitehall… Yes, I’ve certainly looked at the cost of rental cars and researched that side of things quite well. That’s why we’re returning in Lugano. This avoids the huge one-way surcharge for returning the car in a different country. I realise a lot of people travel Europe by train but a car is certainly our preference and seems to work out quite well. We travelled in Europe (France & Belgium) last year the same way. Everyone insisted we should take trains but I stuck to a car and was really pleased that we did. It means we can take the country roads, stop for photos, etc.

Yeah – we tend to do all our accomm bookings (where possible) through Airbnb for the reasons you mentioned.

I actually do have an itinerary planned for Italy, but didn’t really have any specific questions on it at present. Thanks for the comments on Florence though. We had planned on staying there with a day trip to Siena, but may just stay in Siena instead. Often on our previous trip (to make things more economical) we would end up booking accomm in a village nearby rather than in the main cities anyway and this seems to work well (I expect to do the same in Italy).

And yes, Venice seems a must-see from all reports. I do not look forward to the crowds one bit but I’ll survive. I had been looking at a likely bike ride along the lake shore in Annecy, but I will check out the Garda one you mentioned. We are passing by anyway, and that’s pretty much our style for some inexpensive fun.

@kja… Yeah, this is very true. We did some driving through the Scottish Highlands last year and it was definitely a bummer for me (the driver) to not be able to admire things like the passengers can. But it was still amazing and I think I’ll still be able to get plenty of enjoyment from the time on cable cars, a train ride, etc while in Switzerland.

For the Gruyeres portion we are meeting up with some relatives there for a couple of days who are flying into Geneva (probably). It was my assumption (from certain research and also pricing on the mountains) that the area around Gruyeres is not so magnificent. And you seem to confirm that. Are you aware of Le Moleson at all and whether it’s worthwhile? We had been allowing time to spend a whole day there, but this might change depending on what happens with the rest of the itinerary.

Thanks for the hotel suggestion. Very handy to have something specific to check out.

kerouac

For me, the best thing about driving in the mountains is being able to pull off the road at the panoramic overlooks or at the top of mountain passes. Trains just keep going, damn them!

isabel

kja is right about the driver - "consequences for the driver, who will not be able to appreciate the stunning Swiss scenery in the same way (because s/he will need to attend to the road)".
We were driving around the Dolomites a couple years ago and I kept gasping and oohing and aahhing about the scenery and finally he says something to the effect of 'its pretty but it's not that great'. We finally figured out that because not only was he driving, but he is tall (over 6 feet) and I am short (barely 5 feet) and so his view of the mountains was nothing like I was seeing. He was basically seeing just mountain sides and trees while I was seeing the majestic peaks.



But as much as I love trains I think for your trip a car makes sense. But also, as you point out, Switzerland is expensive compared to France and Italy. The last time I was in Switzerland I told myself the next time I wanted an Alps experience I should get it from the French or Italian side. Thus that trip to the Dolomites. Which we started in the Val d'Aosta where you can get a great view of the Matterhorn. One of my favorite images is me in front of the Matterhorn (it's my profile pic) so I was really pleased to get see it from the Italian side. There are cable cars that go up on the Italian side so that might give you your 'high mountain' experience for less money. There are some pretty good views from Lugano too.



Here's my photos of Switzerland: https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/f283697298
Here's the Dolomites gallery: https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/p484153363

utedog

Just had a chance to read it. Very helpful - thanks.

utedog

I feel for your husband. Peaks are much better! ;-)
Thanks, I'll check our your pics now.

Nelson

Great photos from the above posters. I checked them all out too.

I did not see any shots taken from the Aiguille du Midi, so I'll throw a couple up here, in case that's on your radar. The only effort to get here is a severe outlay of Euros and some time crammed in a cable car with other tourists.



Mont Blanc from Aiguille du Midi




Climber below Grandes Jorasses from Aiguille du Midi

kja

No, but a Swiss bus driver once made an unscheduled -- and unsolicited! -- stop for exactly that reason. He had noted that I was enthralled with the scenery, and so he stopped beside some kind of structure, pointed at me, and told me I had two minutes. It was a platform offering panoramic views! How wonderful of him!!!

neckervd

50 EUR for the whole family for a cable car ride up to Restaurant Le 3200 above Les 2 Alpes (Meje) is certainly a good fare.
In Switzerland you would pay 80 EUR for the whole family (with family card) for the gondola ride from Fiesch to Eggishorn/Aletsch Glacier (2900 metres above sea level) and back
or 70 EUR for the whole family (with family card) for the gondola ride from Saas Grund to Hohsaas/Hohlaub Glacier (3140 metres above sea level) and back
or 65 EUR for the whole family (with family card) for the gondola ride from the Bernina road to Diavolezza/Pers Glacier (2970 metres above sea level) and back.
Kerouac is right: some high alpine passes may still be closed in June. But that's rather the exception. and as you will travel in the second half of the month, I don't think that there will be problems with Galibier Pass.
Same remark for the Swiss Alpine Passes which are ofte more spectaculalr than many mountain railway rides (Nufenen Pass and Furka Pass roads for example go almost up to glaciers (easy walk of half an hr or so).
Moleson, Stanserhorn, etc. are far away from any glacier.

PalenQ

thus it’s unlikely we’ll see the value in buying a half-fare pass (even though they’re a great deal)?

right but if you take any Swiss conveyance at all - train - lake boats, cables, etc you can get a free Family Pass at any train station so you kids always travel free if the parents buy a ticket.

twk

A night spent in Interlaken, in June, is usually a night wasted. Spend a night in the Lauterbrunnen Valley or Gridewald. Yes, you could probably find a budget hotel in Interlaken, but there's a reason for that.

If you don't want to pay for the Jungfraujoch, or Schilthorn, consider travelling from Wengen to Grindewald (or vice/versa) via the Manlichen cable car, or going to to Manlichen then making the walk to Kleine Scheidegg (if the trail is open--it wasn't when we spent a week in Wengen in mid-June 2016, but I understand that is unusal). Another moutain rail trip to look at would be taking the train from Wilderswil to Shcyniggeplatte. There are hikes you can take up there, depending on weather.

And, it's worth pointing out that all high mountain outings are highly dependent on whether. There's little point in taking a train up a mountain only to find yourself in the clouds, and that will happen from time to time in June. If your window for making such an excursion is one day, you may find yourself being weathered out.

As to Gruyeres, it's a nice day trip if you are staying on Lac Leman, but not where I would base in that region. There's more to see and do on Lac Leman than in the immediate Gruyeres vicinity.

On the car issue, I suppose that math might point you in that direction for a family, but, one of the reasons to travel to Switzerland is to ride the rail system (and the boats and busses that link to it). The rail system is historically significant in Switzerland--it opened up what was a very isolated and impoverished agricultural region, virtually inventing the tourism industry, and helped turn Switzerland into an advanced technological country. It's not just a means of getting from point A to point B.

utedog

Magnificent!

Thanks, yes the price for La Meije was pretty attractive after I had been looking at the prices to go up some of the Swiss peaks like Schilthorn & Jungfraujoch!
I am certainly hopeful that since it will be reasonably late in June Galibier will be open. Can you advise which is the best app or website for checking what passes are open/closed once we are travelling?

Yes, thanks, I understand. Though from the calculations I've run (off the things we're likely to do with it) the sums still don;t make it worthwhile for us.

Thank you for all the info. Yes, I have read that about Interlaken. I think in my OP I said Interlaken area - I expect to actually stay around Lauterbrunnen.
The latest thought (from various suggestions I've received and research I've done) was to catch the cable car up to Murren, then walk down to Gimmelwald (and cable car back to valley floor).
Then on the other side of the valley a train to Wengen and Grindelwald. A couple of the places you mentioned I'm not familiar with so will have to look into them.
I've also not heard of Lac Leman, so that will be the next bit of research! If it's near the area we want to be then that may be a good alternative.
* Edit - ah, ok - that's the Lake that Lausanne is on. Where's a good spot to stay - I had wondered before what Montreaux is like. Or Vevey. Something around that area...
Yes, I understand your point about the weather. Around that area we should have a bit of time so if it's no good one day we should be right for the next (hopefully!)

On the French side of things, after checking the link from @Michael I am currently hoping to include a fair portion of the Route des Grandes Alpes in our trip from Annecy to Nice. I had assumed driving through the mountains would be very slow, but after comparing travel times along the highways that Google had selected for me, and along that route, there is barely any difference. Theoretically, through the mountains could be a bit quicker, but in practice I'm sure it won't be as a) I don't believe Google, b) I'll be stopping to take a million photos.

That brings me to another question. Currently both Google and ViaMichelin refuse to give me travel times for some sections of road (I assume because they're currently closed). An example is the route from Jausiers through Isola to Saint-Sauveur-sur-Tinee. Is there some other site that will give me estimates of drive times for these areas where Google currently won't oblige?...