Not Completely Satisfied

My wife and I just got back from three nights stay at the Westin Regina at Puerto Vallarta. For those of you who are planning a trip there, I have some advice. Some good and some bad. <BR> <BR>First the bad. I don't know if this is a modern trend but it seems that many reputable hotels are engaged in selling "time share" or close cousins by converting some of their hotel rooms to condos. We booked three nights at the Westin. We were greeted by a friendly employee at the "information" desk to arrange various tours and activities. He gave us good prices on the tours and gave us coupons for hotel dinners and bars. We began to like and trust his advice. Then he pitched this "breakfast" where we would get a "presentation" for on an exclusive "membership." I had a bad feeling about the whole deal but the information clerk kept telling me that we'll get great discounts for just attending. When we still refused, he made us feel guilty to the point where we said yes (i.e. he gets credit when people go and he needs the job to support his family etc...). Needless to say, the entire presentation was a sales pitch on something close to a time share deal by professionals. We wasted two hours of our time for what??? A breakfast and 10-15% off on hotel restaurants and services. <BR> <BR>What made the experience even worse was the fact that the Westin tried to screw us of the disounts when we checked out. When we presented the coupon (that I received a DAY EARLIER), the check out clerk told us that "they no longer accept the discount certificates." Needless to say, I almost exploded in anger but kept calm. After shuttling back and forth to "see his supervisor," to see what he can do, he said he could apply the discount to only a part of our stay. We were not happy but we couldn't argue forever since we had to catch a plane (and they knew this of course). <BR> <BR>Now the good part - everything else!!! Believe it or not, I highly recommend the Westin at PV. The website pictures do not do the hotel justice. The rooms, the restaurants, and general hotel service (room service) is all up to Westin standards. If there is one weak spot, the hotel does not have easy access to sandy beaches (only a great ocean view). <BR> <BR>Again, I don't know why a quality hotel like Westin would leave an otherwise satisfied customer having a negative feeling about their brand. <BR> <BR>Sincerely, <BR> <BR>Not Completely Satisfied Customer

Anony

I do not mean to offend you Not Completey Satisfied but no one can make you feel guilty without your consent. Remember these guys are Pros and if Poor me Poor me works they will play it and you bought into it. <BR>You were on vacation to relax and are not responsible for helping timeshare earn their income. Why not take a tour to the city dump and meet the children that live there. There are many wonderful charitable organizations that could benefit from both your time and money and it would go to those who need it most.

pt

Hola from PV...you are so lucky that the timeshare presentation was only two hours!!! Others run up to 6 hours with extremely high pressure. For ANYONE coming to PV....THERE IS NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT IS FREE HERE. And they ARE pro's at what they do...they play on the good people such as your yourselves to feel sorry for them (ie support families, etc). And the amount of $ that he got for you attending the presentation well paid for things for him. Best advice: IF you are interested in purchasing a timeshare at any resort, go inside the resort, ask to speak with the timeshare manager and go from there. Forget all the so called frills and discounts, freebies and coupons as there is always a hook - mainly your vacation time. The Westin is definitely one of the most respected timeshare hotels here as their presentations, believe it or not, are not the 5 hours plus and extremely high pressure/nastiness that some of the other ones are. I'm glad you enjoyed your vacation despite your experience. I swear the timeshare sharks will be the downfall of Puerto Vallarta. Beware as they are everywhere...in grocery stores, restaurants, street corners, airport. Hoping you come back!

Not Completely Satisfied

Anony, <BR> <BR>I am not offended at all by your comment but I still wanted to respond to your posting. Of course they cannot compel someone to attend the presention without their consent. I fully accept & regret my personal decision to cave in to the pitch. However, I am entitled to the benefit of my bargain. They promised discounts for my time but did not fulfill that promise. In the US, that would probably be called a breach of contract. If they planned or knew at the time they made the promise that they would not honor the discount certificate, that would probably be called fraud or misrepresentation in the US. I can only take responsibility for my own actions. I cannot take responsibility for their unfulfilled promises. <BR> <BR>Not Fully Satisfied Customer

barb

Thank you PT for recognizing this "problem". I was so annoyed at the time share sharks at the Sheraton, I was sorely tempted to throw the lot of them into the pool. We loved PV in general and I'm planning to go again as soon as I can. I could not even get advice about what sights to see without getting the "have you taken the tour yet?" question. Next time I go I'm going to get a pin made that says "NO I'm not interested in the tour, thank you" and wear it everywhere. I do understand that everyone is just trying to make a living but they were absolutely relentless. They were the ONLY negative thing about PV.

anybody

Maybe Westin thinks they can pull this off because it is happening in Mexico. If this happened in the United States or Europe, they'll lose all of their business customers.

anne

NCS: We've been going to PV for many years and have become well acquainted with the techniques of TS salespeople. Sometimes they are a nuisance, sometimes amusing, but always they are people trying to earn a living. Over the years we've gained good restaurant tips and lots of interesting local tidbits if you get beyond the "hooking" stage. Our line when approached is "Let's make a deal .. we'll take the free ..whatever .. you buy back the timeshare we bought last trip". Most times we part friends and have been asked jokingly later "Unload that timeshare yet?" The Westin Regina is one of our favourite hotels and once you establish that you aren't in the market, your choice will be respected. If, however, you indicate interest, then buyer beware. By the way ..two hours of your time for a free breakfast at the Westin and a discount on your hotel bill ain't a bad deal!

Lan Sluder

Certainly there are ways to handle timeshare touts, and it's good to learn those techniques, but that doesn't mean that what the timeshare developers -- the managers and developers, not the employees -- are doing is okay or that it should be accepted. It's not okay, and it's good when customers tell the hotel executives and owners what they think of the whole idea. <BR> <BR>Even worse than what these timeshare scumbags do to buyers is what they end up doing to the tourism economy in a resort area. Look at Hawaii -- timeshare development there in some areas got so intense that it turned off many visitors, hurting the local economy and injuring the livlihood of many people. The same thing is happening in several areas of Mexico, and not just PV. <BR> <BR>Hotel owners in areas where there are so far few timeshares need to understand that the allure of turning a few condos into 50 profitable timeshare units may look good on paper, but as this process expands it has a deleterious effect on their property and on the entire tourism industry. <BR> <BR>--Lan Sluder <BR> <BR>

Anony

To: Not Completely Satisfied <BR> <BR>I agree you are entitled to what you were promised but as Anne said the Law is Buyer Beware and all you had were verbal promises. If you want to see how bad it can get these people had signed contracts check it out and download the contract. www.solcaribeowners.com and Read Timshare Beat www.thetimesharebeat.com/street/apr28-00.htm. Check it out. <BR> <BR>

Chantel

I, too, love Puerto Vallarta but cannot stand the timeshare sharks. We've been only once to P.V. and are going again this winter. I am trying to figure out what the best way to ignore the timeshare people without being a rude person. My husband was the one who was having a hard time breaking away from them downtown. They would start off a conversation so innocentlyand would give him the impression they weren't timeshare sharks. He would get sucked into a conversation and it would lead into the infamous routine. I had a hard time pulling him away, but after a while he saw that the only way to make your way through the streets was to smile and say no (or say nothing) and keep walking. We had the same problem last year in Cancun in our hotel. I guess the sharks are in all the tourists spots.I wonder how many timeshares they sell anyways?? What a job!!!!

Robert

NCS's good/bad tale was my experience exactly, EXCEPT, I actually bought a time share - it's really not a bad deal if that's what you want, and if you have family and descendents to leave it to. However, a couple of days later my wife and I realized it wasn't what we wanted, so I spent an hour reading the contract. Lo and behold, in small print it stipulates a cooling-off period of five days. The sales people try to tell you that a refund is only at their discretion, but it is not. We had to go through a charade of applying for a refund, with their so-called decision to come after we returned home. A few days later, they called me on their dime, and said that I was under no further obligation. The deposit was returned to my credit card the next month. <BR> <BR>Are we going back this year? No; the experience itself and the constant hassles -- it seems like everybody in the whole city is in on this scheme -- left a lousy taste in our mouths. However, we did really like the hotel and will return in another year or two when memories have faded.

pt

Please don't think that 'everyone in the city' is in on the timeshare stuff....(at least here in PV!). There are definitely many of us that are not. True, timeshare purchases bring alot of tourism to PV and that is good! But on the other hand, how many people are left with a bad taste in their mouth after visiting here, because of the timeshare sharks? I do not have anything against timeshare...I think it works for many people. It's their tactics and hooking that I am so much against! There are supposedly 'laws' against some of the tactics used by the OPC's in the street but unfortunately I do not see them being enforced at all. I have forwarded complaint after complaint that I see on the internet to timeshare managers, etc but to no avail. Anyway, please don't think that everyone here participates....not!

Jon

I should have visited this web site before I took off to PV Westin. The same thing happened to me.

Jean Valjean

I have not been to PV in a while, but I was just in Cancun. <BR> <BR>One of my friends is a first rate bargain hunter, so when he saw an ad for a 15 bucks a day rental car, he just could not say no. <BR> <BR>We were "invited" to a (supposedly) 40 minute presentation. In the end, it lasted for 1:30 minutes. <BR> <BR>Maybe that sounds like little time, what I did was to simply say: I am terribly sorry, but I am only interested in the car. <BR> <BR>The salesguy (very good, BTW), started with questions like "C'mon, tell me that this is not attractive, this is very attractive. Don't tell me that you can't afford it, because you can, can't you?", and stuff like that. <BR> <BR>What really got him was when I said: You are an excellent salesman, you sell an excellent product in a very convincing manner. You gave us a very professional and good presentation. We are only interested in the car. <BR> <BR>At this point, he got up the table and left. We did rent a car for 130 US for 5 days. <BR> <BR>Would I do it again? Most probably not.

OBIWAN

I visited PV in Jan. of 2000. It was my first vacation in 20 years! I loved PV so much, I knew I had to return. I was very naive about the Timeshare presentations. My experience was at the Mayan Palace and I enjoyed it! My daughters and I were picked up at our hotel, taken to the Timeshare Resort for the presentation. We were served breakfast, swam in the pool, played at the waterpark, served lunch and were shown the entire hotel. Obviously, the salesperson was in the process of selling the Timeshare during our time there, but he was very pleasant, not high pressure and eagar to accomodate our needs. I ended up buying a resale share from this gentleman at a very reasonable price and was given my gift certificate for a two day rental on a jeep, two bottles of Kahlua and a couple of sterling silver bracelets for my daughters. I had no problems with the rental of the jeep, in fact they brought it to my hotel and picked it up after the two days were finished! I am going back to PV on my timeshare rental this Novemeber and I can't wait! I think if I had not purchased the timeshare I proabably would not be vacationing. Now I can't wait to book again for late 2002!

anony

So what you are saying in order for you to take a vaction this year you had to buy timeshare last year to do so. <BR> <BR>I don't get the reasoning. I have been shopping the Mexico and Hawaii sales this year and the hotel air packages are unbelievable. <BR> <BR>What did you pay for your timeshare???? <BR>I would like to shop and compare it with the resales listed on the internet.

freemoney

milk the timeshare folks. the opc's do. during my last visit i made over $700 plus some hooch listening to some over the belt line bottom feeders. ever notice that the bottom feeders all look a like. beer belly, moustache, glasses and they sweat a lot. get the goods up front and walk if you don't like what they have to say.

excuses

When my husband and I were in PV in 95, we had an awful time trying to buy a limited edition Robert Bateman print. They guy told us the price, and said it would be reduced by $x, if we'd go to a "breakfast". We declined, and said, no, we'd just like the print, and didn't mind the price. We almost had to stand on our heads and spit nickels to purchase it. At one point, my husband finally did his Clint Eastwood impression: squinted up his eyes, and whispered, "Just tell me: Can I buy the damn thing or not?" It was hilarious! <BR>When my sister & her husband are accosted by a time-share shark, she always takes takes the tout aside quickly, and whispers to him that the man with her is someone else's husband! They always wave goodbye quickly. They NEVER want to deal with couples who aren't married (to each other)!

John

Was in PV for a week in early October. My favorite two lines that stopped the TS folks in their tracks was:<BR><BR>1. Looking at my wife I would say to the TS guy "my secretary dont have to come does she?" <BR><BR>2. I would look the TS guy in the eye and say "amigo i would really love to but my flight leaves in the morning" <BR><BR>Use either and move on.

Darlene

My girlfriend and I just returned from Puerto Vallarta yesterday. We both celebrated out birthdays down there and she had a timeshare from elsewhere that she swapped. I'd agree that the biggest drawback at PV is the timeshare people and VENDORS. The Vendors are everywhere: on the beach; on the street, etc. We couldn't walk down the street in town without being constantly accosted by someone trying to sell something. They even hawk the restaurants. One night we were almost literally forced into one restaurant. We got angry and told them not to touch us and that they were too "pushy" and just lost our business. All these people really ruin a nice walk downtown. By the way, we took the 90 minute (to the minute) TS presentation at the Sheridan Buganvilla Vacation Club where we were staying - just to get discounts, etc. Our "salesman" was nice, but a little pushy - but didn't pursue us too long after we each said "no."<BR>I do question the so-called discounts on the excursions, etc. I heard others on the excursions stating what they paid and it was about or less than what we did.