Princess Cruise line cancels Puerto Vallarta port stops ...
Jun 20th, 2011, 01:23 PM
#1
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Princess Cruise line cancels Puerto Vallarta port stops ...
Jun 20th, 2011, 04:31 PM
#4
OK. I read the article. They don't actually sight any factual "safety concerns".
I am very up on what's going on in Vallarta and just returned from a trip there last month. I believe the cruiselines are making 'knee jerk' reactions that has more to do with their wallets and profitability, because potential passengers may be uninformed and believe it to be unsafe. Even though it is not.
I am very up on what's going on in Vallarta and just returned from a trip there last month. I believe the cruiselines are making 'knee jerk' reactions that has more to do with their wallets and profitability, because potential passengers may be uninformed and believe it to be unsafe. Even though it is not.
Jun 21st, 2011, 06:21 AM
#7
If they are going to be flinging around generalizations they should say what the heck they are referring to. WHAT "safety concerns" precisely? I'd be more afraid of getting food poisoning or a mysterious cruiseship virus on a Princess Line ship, than I would of any "safety concerns" in the city of Puerto Vallarta.
Jun 21st, 2011, 07:59 AM
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I agree: It seems such a drastic decision, especially coming from a company that pioneered cruises to the Mexican Riviera. It sounds like they're shortening the trips, substituting PV with an extra day in Cabo San Lucas. Nothing against Los Cabos -- I work on the Fodor's guide to Los Cabos & Baja -- but I think you're really missing out if you don't get to see Puerto Vallarta.
Jun 21st, 2011, 12:06 PM
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I think I first became aware of Puerto Vallarta and those other Pacific ports through "The Love Boat" TV show, and those were supposed to be Princess ships. 
And is anybody calling at Acapulco these days? Come to think of it, I don't see discussion about it here at all.
And is anybody calling at Acapulco these days? Come to think of it, I don't see discussion about it here at all.
Jun 21st, 2011, 01:27 PM
#11
hmmm... I don't think so? I certainly don't know anyone who's traveling there these days on their own. Because unfortunately Acapulco IS one of the places that has had at least one pretty dramatic and high profile violent incident, that I can understand would discourage people from visiting.
Jun 21st, 2011, 05:31 PM
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<b>The article didn't mention any specific incidents or statistics </b>
A couple of other articles guessed that the killing of a Canadian living in Vallarta was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. He was forced to open a business safe at knife-point, $13,000 - $20,000 was stolen and then he was killed anyway.
From one site linking this killing to the Princess decision: <i><b>"... recent news supports the decision made this week by Princess Cruises. Leonard Schell a Canadian father of two was stabbed 25 times in his Puerto Vallarta home last month and robbed of about $13,000, bank cards and passports reports CTV.ca. "They cut him from his lip to his throat. It's terrible, and just to rob money," Schell's wife, Elba Ruiz said."</i></b>
Seems like a stretch to me because he was not a tourist (he ran a small business down there), but that's the speculation.
<b>There have been no incidents concerning "safety" of tourists in Puerto Vallarta to date</b>
Not true at all ... per US State Dept statistics on deaths of US citizens abroad Puerto Vallarta had a higher rate of homicides than any other Pacific resort. For example ...
* more tourists were killed during armed robberies in Vallarta than in Cabo San Lucas, Ixtapa, Zihuatanejo and Acapulco <b>COMBINED</b>. Only Mazatlan is close to the Vallarta homicide rate for US citizens (another city the cruise lines won't stop at).
* more tourists/US citizens (some possibly ex-pats) were killed in Vallarta than in all of Canada during the 8 years of the most recent study, even though Canada has more than 3 times the number of US tourists.
* here are three examples of armed robberies that ended in the deaths of US citizens since 2008:
- 2/11/2009 Tim Connor, 47, a tourist from California, was sleeping in a time-share condo near Los Muertos beach with his wife when someone broke in at 4 AM and stabbed him to death, injuring his wife when she tried to help (to find web links to any of these enter '(victim's name) mexico death' in a search box)
- 3/26/2008 Felicia Melton-Smyth, a tourist on a group trip from Wisconsin, stabbed to death and robbed in her hotel room by a 36 year old homeless man.
- 3/28/2008 David Parrish, 21 year old college student, shot and killed near the Marina during spring break at 4 PM. A report said two men were robbing his mother after she withdrew $ from an ATM and when he tried to help her he was shot. The men were caught but the shooter released a short time later 'by accident' and is still at large.
If I were involved with the cruise ship industry I'd be most worried about the Parrish killing since it's right where the cruise ship passengers pass thru.
For those who say 'this happens everywhere in the US' I'm not buying it. I live in one of the 5 most populous cities in the US and we get at least double, maybe triple the number of tourists that Vallarta gets. I can't remember a single incident of tourists being targeted and then murdered during robberies. Not saying it has never happened, just saying I've never read or heard about it in 25 years of living here.
<b>Stranger still becasue Cabo San Lucas and Puerto Vallarta have the exactly same "safety concerns" for tourists... NONE.</b>
Number of US citizens victims of homicide in Cabo San Lucas and Los Cabos during the 8 years of the State Dept study: zero
Number of US citizens victims of homicide in Puerto Vallarta during the 8 years of the State Dept study: six
A couple of other articles guessed that the killing of a Canadian living in Vallarta was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. He was forced to open a business safe at knife-point, $13,000 - $20,000 was stolen and then he was killed anyway.
From one site linking this killing to the Princess decision: <i><b>"... recent news supports the decision made this week by Princess Cruises. Leonard Schell a Canadian father of two was stabbed 25 times in his Puerto Vallarta home last month and robbed of about $13,000, bank cards and passports reports CTV.ca. "They cut him from his lip to his throat. It's terrible, and just to rob money," Schell's wife, Elba Ruiz said."</i></b>
Seems like a stretch to me because he was not a tourist (he ran a small business down there), but that's the speculation.
<b>There have been no incidents concerning "safety" of tourists in Puerto Vallarta to date</b>
Not true at all ... per US State Dept statistics on deaths of US citizens abroad Puerto Vallarta had a higher rate of homicides than any other Pacific resort. For example ...
* more tourists were killed during armed robberies in Vallarta than in Cabo San Lucas, Ixtapa, Zihuatanejo and Acapulco <b>COMBINED</b>. Only Mazatlan is close to the Vallarta homicide rate for US citizens (another city the cruise lines won't stop at).
* more tourists/US citizens (some possibly ex-pats) were killed in Vallarta than in all of Canada during the 8 years of the most recent study, even though Canada has more than 3 times the number of US tourists.
* here are three examples of armed robberies that ended in the deaths of US citizens since 2008:
- 2/11/2009 Tim Connor, 47, a tourist from California, was sleeping in a time-share condo near Los Muertos beach with his wife when someone broke in at 4 AM and stabbed him to death, injuring his wife when she tried to help (to find web links to any of these enter '(victim's name) mexico death' in a search box)
- 3/26/2008 Felicia Melton-Smyth, a tourist on a group trip from Wisconsin, stabbed to death and robbed in her hotel room by a 36 year old homeless man.
- 3/28/2008 David Parrish, 21 year old college student, shot and killed near the Marina during spring break at 4 PM. A report said two men were robbing his mother after she withdrew $ from an ATM and when he tried to help her he was shot. The men were caught but the shooter released a short time later 'by accident' and is still at large.
If I were involved with the cruise ship industry I'd be most worried about the Parrish killing since it's right where the cruise ship passengers pass thru.
For those who say 'this happens everywhere in the US' I'm not buying it. I live in one of the 5 most populous cities in the US and we get at least double, maybe triple the number of tourists that Vallarta gets. I can't remember a single incident of tourists being targeted and then murdered during robberies. Not saying it has never happened, just saying I've never read or heard about it in 25 years of living here.
<b>Stranger still becasue Cabo San Lucas and Puerto Vallarta have the exactly same "safety concerns" for tourists... NONE.</b>
Number of US citizens victims of homicide in Cabo San Lucas and Los Cabos during the 8 years of the State Dept study: zero
Number of US citizens victims of homicide in Puerto Vallarta during the 8 years of the State Dept study: six
Jun 21st, 2011, 07:43 PM
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Thanks, Bill. I didn't know any of this. That's certainly troubling to hear. It still seems like a drastic move though. I can cite far more incidents of problems during the same time period here in Costa Rica than you mentioned for PV, and Princess still calls here. It does make me wonder if something else went into the decision.
Jun 22nd, 2011, 06:41 AM
#16
Yes I already am aware of each of those stories and it does not change my opinion.
For the first incident mentioned, there are some important details missing from your summary. I read the newpaper articles at the time. He was married to a Mexican and living in Vallarta. In a home with a security system. Which was off and he opened the door in his underwear (so assuming he knew the person). He had $20,000 cash. So while a sad event, he was not a tourist on vacation and speculation there is more to the story than a home robbery, that it was a 'hit'.
So yes things bad happen in Puerto Vallarta. When I said NONE I was referring to how people seem to think somehow tourists are being targeted by the drug cartels or will come into harm associated with that mafia-styled violence. And that is what I say had not ever happened.
For the first incident mentioned, there are some important details missing from your summary. I read the newpaper articles at the time. He was married to a Mexican and living in Vallarta. In a home with a security system. Which was off and he opened the door in his underwear (so assuming he knew the person). He had $20,000 cash. So while a sad event, he was not a tourist on vacation and speculation there is more to the story than a home robbery, that it was a 'hit'.
So yes things bad happen in Puerto Vallarta. When I said NONE I was referring to how people seem to think somehow tourists are being targeted by the drug cartels or will come into harm associated with that mafia-styled violence. And that is what I say had not ever happened.
Jun 22nd, 2011, 07:17 AM
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Bill_H Only 3 TOURISTS in 3 years. Also the one you picked out, Parish, did not occur near the Marine Terminal, it was in the The Marina, which is not near the cruise ships.
Long Beach CA, the home port of Princess Cruises reported 235 murders alone last year.
They are being sued by the parents of a 14 year old passenger who was shot in St. Thomas last year, are they cancelling that route ?
Long Beach CA, the home port of Princess Cruises reported 235 murders alone last year.
They are being sued by the parents of a 14 year old passenger who was shot in St. Thomas last year, are they cancelling that route ?
Jun 22nd, 2011, 09:47 AM
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<b>Bill_H Only 3 TOURISTS in 3 years.</b>
cabron, I agree that 3 is not many but it's a lot more than none, which is what others were saying.
And it's more than all of the other Pacific resorts except maybe Mazatlan, which should be troubling.
<b>Long Beach CA, the home port of Princess Cruises reported 235 murders alone last year.</b>
But were ANY of these tourists? Or more specifically, tourists killed during botched robberies or hotel room invasions, like the three in Vallarta? Googling 'long beach tourist homicide' doesn't turn up a single match.
Jeff wrote <b>"I can cite far more incidents of problems during the same time period here in Costa Rica than you mentioned for PV, and Princess still calls here."</b>
The State Dept #'s for Costa Rica in the same time period show 28 US citizen homicides in CR (not broken out for tourists vs ex-pats), 13 in San Jose. I think the total in Mexico was 383 but most of these were in the border towns. For the Pacific resorts it was 19 homicides, more than half in Mazatlan and Vallarta.
cabron, I agree that 3 is not many but it's a lot more than none, which is what others were saying.
And it's more than all of the other Pacific resorts except maybe Mazatlan, which should be troubling.
<b>Long Beach CA, the home port of Princess Cruises reported 235 murders alone last year.</b>
But were ANY of these tourists? Or more specifically, tourists killed during botched robberies or hotel room invasions, like the three in Vallarta? Googling 'long beach tourist homicide' doesn't turn up a single match.
Jeff wrote <b>"I can cite far more incidents of problems during the same time period here in Costa Rica than you mentioned for PV, and Princess still calls here."</b>
The State Dept #'s for Costa Rica in the same time period show 28 US citizen homicides in CR (not broken out for tourists vs ex-pats), 13 in San Jose. I think the total in Mexico was 383 but most of these were in the border towns. For the Pacific resorts it was 19 homicides, more than half in Mazatlan and Vallarta.
