Why markets?
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:14 AM
#1
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Why markets?
After seeing the many, many posts about European markets I am wonderfing why there is so much fascination with them. The German Christmas markets I can understand, but what about the others?
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:19 AM
#2
Are you including open air farmers markets in your question? I always recommend them in the Lac Leman area of Switzerland. Because you can get fabulous food there. Because they are colorful and fun. Often there is live music. And you get to hang out with locals at the same time. Heck in Vevey in the summer months they even serve wine!
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:23 AM
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I can't understand the Christmas market thing, but anything involving food--and I am there. I love to see what is grown locally and see the sights and sounds of fresh produce. I also find fish markets fascinating. I frequent farmer's markets at home, so when i travel it is no different.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:30 AM
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It's an excellent question.
Certainly in Britain, France and Italy, street markets have been transformed - mostly for the very much worse - in the past 20 years. The proportion of space taken up by food at all has collapsed, mostly replaced by third-rate imported clothing. And within food, my impression is that a lot of truly local and really fresh food has been replaced by itinerant regional resellers of sort-of local manufactured food: terrines, cheese, salamis - the kind of thing that supermarkets are set up to do really well anyway.
I spend less time elsewhere: but I'd say the same thing's generally true of countries like Poland or Romania, where markets were a way of helping private plots operate under communism, but now just aren't as appropriate for young families as Billa, Tesco or Carrefour.
Point is,though: the complaint's not universal. In areas relatively uninterested in food, like NW France, the markets are generally very so-so. But in towns where food is important (Lyons springs to mind) there's still outstanding fresh, local fruit & veg in markets of a quality that's hard to find anywhere else. In Parma there's a range of cheese sellers offering varieties of parmesan you'll not find anywhere else. And in Britain, the new wave of farmers' markets (quite distinct from the mediocre traditional street markets) sometimes - but by no means always - offers really interesting fresh, localish, produce.
Like anything there's good, mediocre and seriously crap. Mediocre guide books - and undiscriminating posters on this site - often fall into the silly fallacy of gushing over any old load of forced fruit or veg, trucked in from thousands of miles away.
Certainly in Britain, France and Italy, street markets have been transformed - mostly for the very much worse - in the past 20 years. The proportion of space taken up by food at all has collapsed, mostly replaced by third-rate imported clothing. And within food, my impression is that a lot of truly local and really fresh food has been replaced by itinerant regional resellers of sort-of local manufactured food: terrines, cheese, salamis - the kind of thing that supermarkets are set up to do really well anyway.
I spend less time elsewhere: but I'd say the same thing's generally true of countries like Poland or Romania, where markets were a way of helping private plots operate under communism, but now just aren't as appropriate for young families as Billa, Tesco or Carrefour.
Point is,though: the complaint's not universal. In areas relatively uninterested in food, like NW France, the markets are generally very so-so. But in towns where food is important (Lyons springs to mind) there's still outstanding fresh, local fruit & veg in markets of a quality that's hard to find anywhere else. In Parma there's a range of cheese sellers offering varieties of parmesan you'll not find anywhere else. And in Britain, the new wave of farmers' markets (quite distinct from the mediocre traditional street markets) sometimes - but by no means always - offers really interesting fresh, localish, produce.
Like anything there's good, mediocre and seriously crap. Mediocre guide books - and undiscriminating posters on this site - often fall into the silly fallacy of gushing over any old load of forced fruit or veg, trucked in from thousands of miles away.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:42 AM
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The proportion of space taken up by food at all has collapsed, mostly replaced by third-rate imported clothing>
well not at the local markets i go to year in and year out - the same ones in the Loiret region - authentic farmers' markets where the bleu de travail-clad hefty farmer with worn hands and face sell their own raised meats and veg - in fact these types of markets are increasing my French friends say with all the localvore movement, etc. Cheap clothes have always been a staple of these markets - so i guess it's what part of France you go to - tourist meccas like most Brits and flanner do or real towns with few tourists.
I just find it neat that the bloke who makes the cheese is there selling it - the guy who raises the cattle sells his meat both cooked and uncooked.
Many French will go to a Sunday market and pick up all cooked meats and even some veggies like cooked beets (all covered in black) for the ubiquitous Sunday meal - and salad fixings. No in the Loiret at least markets are going strong and are still mainly local - there are regional vendors who have open-sided vans who no doubt do a market circuit and may be say from 50 miles away but i'd still call that local.
But back to OP - why markets - well they are a quaint thing to see - peasants kind of selling their wares - animated barking out - same as in London's East End, venue of some of the most colorful street markets with Cockney accents ringing aloud - '5 for a quid - 5', etc.
In Paris i have been struck by how much more incredibly cheap veggies and fruits are at street markets - avocados 5 for a euro last time i was there in December meme!
Anyway street markets are one of the reasons i love going to Europe and they are everywhere. Some, like the one on Paris' Ile de la Cite specializes in flowers and others, just across the Seine, birds, etc.
Amsterdam has stamp collecting markets and book markets - there are lots of antique/bric a brac outdoor markets as well.
well not at the local markets i go to year in and year out - the same ones in the Loiret region - authentic farmers' markets where the bleu de travail-clad hefty farmer with worn hands and face sell their own raised meats and veg - in fact these types of markets are increasing my French friends say with all the localvore movement, etc. Cheap clothes have always been a staple of these markets - so i guess it's what part of France you go to - tourist meccas like most Brits and flanner do or real towns with few tourists.
I just find it neat that the bloke who makes the cheese is there selling it - the guy who raises the cattle sells his meat both cooked and uncooked.
Many French will go to a Sunday market and pick up all cooked meats and even some veggies like cooked beets (all covered in black) for the ubiquitous Sunday meal - and salad fixings. No in the Loiret at least markets are going strong and are still mainly local - there are regional vendors who have open-sided vans who no doubt do a market circuit and may be say from 50 miles away but i'd still call that local.
But back to OP - why markets - well they are a quaint thing to see - peasants kind of selling their wares - animated barking out - same as in London's East End, venue of some of the most colorful street markets with Cockney accents ringing aloud - '5 for a quid - 5', etc.
In Paris i have been struck by how much more incredibly cheap veggies and fruits are at street markets - avocados 5 for a euro last time i was there in December meme!
Anyway street markets are one of the reasons i love going to Europe and they are everywhere. Some, like the one on Paris' Ile de la Cite specializes in flowers and others, just across the Seine, birds, etc.
Amsterdam has stamp collecting markets and book markets - there are lots of antique/bric a brac outdoor markets as well.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:44 AM
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Hi Underhill ,
We loved roaming around the markets with the locals. You always know it's market day when you see the little older ladies walking at a brisk pace with basket in hand. It is fun to watch the locals as they visit with each other and do their weekly shopping.
The fresh fruit and vegees, the vinegars and oils, jams, chickens roasting, beautiful linens etc. We hit a dozen or so during our trip last year.
Michele
We loved roaming around the markets with the locals. You always know it's market day when you see the little older ladies walking at a brisk pace with basket in hand. It is fun to watch the locals as they visit with each other and do their weekly shopping.
The fresh fruit and vegees, the vinegars and oils, jams, chickens roasting, beautiful linens etc. We hit a dozen or so during our trip last year.
Michele
Jul 23rd, 2010, 12:11 PM
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A trip to Paris is not complete without a trip to Richaard Lenor or Saxe Breteuil markets. I love looking at the way foods are displayed, tasting samples , picking up a few things for the apartment. Even better is Borough Market in London, hand dived scallops from Dorset. That is always my Friday lunch!Then cookie and other samples along the way before picking up a creme caramel near the entrance!
Jul 23rd, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Not sure if you mean food markets - or once a week markets for "antiques" or tscotckes etc.
I think a lot of people like the food markets since they come from places where food comes from supermarkets - rather than fresh from local suppliers. Also they can be very colorful depending on what part of the world it is (after all you don;t have octopi climbing out of their baskets at the local King Kullen).
I think a lot of people like the food markets since they come from places where food comes from supermarkets - rather than fresh from local suppliers. Also they can be very colorful depending on what part of the world it is (after all you don;t have octopi climbing out of their baskets at the local King Kullen).
Jul 23rd, 2010, 06:54 PM
#9
I love all the food markets and the flea markets. a place to linger with the locals as well as the tourists. I like seeing the food displays, the radishes looking like bouquets, Fish and crustaceans I have never seen before. The vitality, the colors, the whole ambiance.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 06:55 PM
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In many places, markets are vestigial. In Le Bugue, the biggest market town closest to my house in the Dordogne, there has been a market in the town square for hundreds of years. Just the fact that it's still there, on the same day that it was in 1400-something makes it pretty special, at least to me. I don't care how it has evolved, or if there's a Dutch cheese vendor there now or a British bean seller who doesn't even speak French - these are easily ignored - I DO love that I am honoring a tradition that has gone on for literally centuries. And that I'm buying local, for the most part, foods that are fresh and flavorful and better than what I can get at the Intermarche.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 07:11 PM
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I even like to go to foreign supermarkets. It's interesting to see what people eat and how it's sold. And farmers' market are not only interesting but a treat for all the senses. Beautiful to see, smell, hear, taste. And a great photo op.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 07:38 PM
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The Farmers Markets that are here in Frankfurt DO offer a large percentage of their products from local farms. Mostly organic, mostly seasonal. Germans like buying German produce, German meats, German cheese, and it is even more attractive if it is from a near-by farm. Chatting up the farmers is interesting. Obviously, for the citrus fruits and so on, those come in from other countries, especially out of season. Nothing is more fun though, than Asparagus Season, followed by Strawberry Season, then Cherry Season, then Peach and Nectarine Season as well as Mushroom Season. The fall sees all the veg from the Cabbage family piled up on the tables, as well as a wide variety of apples and fresh squeezed apple juice, pear juice and berry juices.
I enjoy the early mornings, when it all looks so beautiful, the bantering amongst the vendors, but I also like the end of the day, when all the produce goes on sale and the vendors are trying to make bargains with you, shouting out the sales. It is simply fun.
Add in a few vendors selling sausages, sauteed mushrooms, pommes and wine from the Rhine and you have a wonderful afternoon. Great for photos too!
I enjoy the early mornings, when it all looks so beautiful, the bantering amongst the vendors, but I also like the end of the day, when all the produce goes on sale and the vendors are trying to make bargains with you, shouting out the sales. It is simply fun.
Add in a few vendors selling sausages, sauteed mushrooms, pommes and wine from the Rhine and you have a wonderful afternoon. Great for photos too!
Jul 23rd, 2010, 08:58 PM
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I like the markets because I like good food. And it's fun to browse around and to shop and people watch.
But I don't view it as only something that's fun to do in Europe. I also enjoy going to my local farmers' market.
But I don't view it as only something that's fun to do in Europe. I also enjoy going to my local farmers' market.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 09:18 PM
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With the exception of a few tourist traps in Rome, Florence and Venice, the itinerant, open-air markets in Italy are not oriented toward tourism or sentimentality but are meant to serve the utilitarian needs of people of mainly moderate income. Flanneruk may bemoan the presence of cheap clothing and housewards, but it has meant that Italians have torn down fewer historic neighborhoods and built far fewer big box discount stores with parking lots. It's where we shop once a week because the local stores in my borgo simply haven't got the space to stock a variety of bath mats, aprons, bedroom slippers, nail polish, knitting yarn, etc., and the local food markets don't carry cheese from the Alta-Adige or onions from Tropea and other 'foreign' goods. If we want local, fresh produce we get it every day in the alimenatari, or half the time as a gift from the neighbors were more fagiolini than they can eat that day.
There are still legendary food markets in Italy --interestingly mostly despised by tourists (except for the French!) San Remo, Genova, Padova, Catania to name a few. But if tourists go there expecting to see garlic braided with ribbons, or precision rows of yellow peppers alternating with red, or rounds of cheese nestled into a cute basket -- uh, no. They are not a "quaint" thing to see.
There are still legendary food markets in Italy --interestingly mostly despised by tourists (except for the French!) San Remo, Genova, Padova, Catania to name a few. But if tourists go there expecting to see garlic braided with ribbons, or precision rows of yellow peppers alternating with red, or rounds of cheese nestled into a cute basket -- uh, no. They are not a "quaint" thing to see.
Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:50 PM
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If you look into the history how market towns evolved you will find that the aspect of supplying the town and the villages nearby with local produce was just one function.
The other function was to give the people of the region access to foreign goods. In medieval times, being a market town meant that every tradesman using the routes through your town had to offer the produce or goods he was transporting on the market. That's why spices, fabrics, exotic dried fruits etc. have to be considered as "authetic" as the local apples and carrots.
Obviuosly, not every town or village that has a market these days, had been a real market town ages ago. And whether you can say that nowadays cheap t-shirts "made in China" are the modern twins of silk and satin in medieval times is probably up to your personal attitude.
Nevertheless, it had been a mild shock here when the local consumer organization compared the quality of organic food from markets to regular supermarkets and to discount supermarkets. The lowest level of contamination (pestizides, chemical residues, bacteria, etc.) and the highest degree of freshness was found in fruits from discounters like Lidl or Aldi.
Which is not that surprising if you consider the logistics behind their factory-style food supply chain.
The regular fruit and vegetable vendors on markets (with the possible exception of dedicated farmers markets) usually carry only a given range of local produce.
They will get their supplies from giant wholesale markets, as the smaller independent supermarkets do. That does not have to be a bad thing if you have a trustworthy vendor who only buys the best produce at those markets.
But many people just have no clue these days that most fruits and vegetables are only available locally for a limited time of the year, especially the more North you travel in Europe.
So while also some locals here have the illusion that you always buy "better produce" on markets, most will see it more like a nice change from their routine supermarket shopping and go there to enjoy the atmosphere.
The other function was to give the people of the region access to foreign goods. In medieval times, being a market town meant that every tradesman using the routes through your town had to offer the produce or goods he was transporting on the market. That's why spices, fabrics, exotic dried fruits etc. have to be considered as "authetic" as the local apples and carrots.
Obviuosly, not every town or village that has a market these days, had been a real market town ages ago. And whether you can say that nowadays cheap t-shirts "made in China" are the modern twins of silk and satin in medieval times is probably up to your personal attitude.
Nevertheless, it had been a mild shock here when the local consumer organization compared the quality of organic food from markets to regular supermarkets and to discount supermarkets. The lowest level of contamination (pestizides, chemical residues, bacteria, etc.) and the highest degree of freshness was found in fruits from discounters like Lidl or Aldi.
Which is not that surprising if you consider the logistics behind their factory-style food supply chain.
The regular fruit and vegetable vendors on markets (with the possible exception of dedicated farmers markets) usually carry only a given range of local produce.
They will get their supplies from giant wholesale markets, as the smaller independent supermarkets do. That does not have to be a bad thing if you have a trustworthy vendor who only buys the best produce at those markets.
But many people just have no clue these days that most fruits and vegetables are only available locally for a limited time of the year, especially the more North you travel in Europe.
So while also some locals here have the illusion that you always buy "better produce" on markets, most will see it more like a nice change from their routine supermarket shopping and go there to enjoy the atmosphere.
Jul 24th, 2010, 07:57 AM
#19
I recommend reading "Market Day In Provence". An eye opener.The late Michele de La Pradelle shows you a show performed by merchants and our propensity to see what we want to see.
By reading all the negatives in this book, I still think What I bought there at the markets, looked and tasted better than anything I find here,
By reading all the negatives in this book, I still think What I bought there at the markets, looked and tasted better than anything I find here,
Jul 24th, 2010, 08:13 AM
#20
Why markets? Because they are vastly more photogenic than supermarkets. And because they are not so common in my part of the world. And because they sell things I like that I can not find at home.
