ANUJ

My wife and I are regular travelers to France, but haven’t been to the Dordogne/Lot region. I’m at early stages of planning a 2-week visit, possibly in April/May 2017 before the peak season crowds set in. I’ve reviewed the incredibly helpful posts on the Forum, and also have Stu Dudley’s itineraries.

I'm veering towards flying into Toulouse (maybe see the city as well?) and flying out of Paris (repeat visitor, but cant resist going back every time, usually leaving it to the end). I will likely break journey in Cahors and Figeac (driving northwards and exploring Cordes, St Cirq, Conques etc. along the way), before heading over to Sarlat for 5 nights. Assuming this routing, I’d be grateful for advice on a few specifics :
1. Car Rental (leaving Toulouse) : Is it better to rent at the airport or the train station ? I will need an automatic transmission and typically avoid driving within large cities, unless exiting Toulouse from its station is easy. I've used Europcar and SixT in France previously.
2. Exiting Dordogne : It appears the TGVs to Paris only go from Bordeaux (we’ve been before, not keen to revisit), so ending in Perigueux or Bergerac, for example, leads to some detouring. How about returning the car at Brive La Gaillarde ? I see rental offices by the station, so I could drop the car in the evening after a busy day of touring from Sarlat, spend the night in a nearby hotel and take a next morning early IC train to Paris.
3. Caves : Given limited time, I thought Peche Merle, Gouffre de Padirac and Lascaux II would be enough “variety” over the course of the trip, and each of these also seem possible to pre-book online so there is certainty of access. Any views?
4. Kayaking/Boating : Given the multiple confusing options, is the stretch of river from Vitrac to Beynac most visually appealing by canoe? I think the gabarres service a shorter section of this route from La Roque Gageac to Castelnaud. My wife and I should be able to manage a 2-3 hour kayaking experience (the one hour by boat seems abrupt), though we aren’t regular canoers.

Thanks for your help!

kja

I adored Toulouse and seriously wish I’d given it more than the 2+ days I gave it – and those days didn’t count a separate full day in Albi.

If there is any chance that you will have jet lag (you’re coming from Mumbai?), I would strongly encourage you to stay in Toulouse and take public transportation for your first night or two. There is mounting evidence that driving with jet lag is just as dangerous -- to yourself and others -- as driving drunk, and <b>nothing</b> you can do will prevent the microsleeps (which you might not even notice) that are the apparent culprit.

Re: the caves: I was glad to include some very different caves in my experience -- Les Combarelles is known for its engravings; the Abri du Cap Blanc has an incredible and unusual deep-relief carving; la Roque Saint Christophe shows “cave life” through the middle ages. And the Font-de-Gaume struck me as absolutely exquisite. That said, you've chosen three excellent options that will give you the chance to see both prehistoric chromatic art (Peche Merle and the reproductions of Lascaux II) and geologic features (Peche Merle and Gourffre de Padirac).

Hope that helps!

Cathinjoetown

Toulouse rail station is not that far off the autoroutes which ring the city. There are a few tricky turns, I would use a gps. My experience with many French rental agencies is they can be lacking in the free city maps most agencies still carry. I wouldn't bother going back out to the airport, although it's not far.

I love Toulouse, a compact, easy-walking city. I would stay on or near Place Capitole or Place Wilson and would stay two nights. Over the past 6-8 years the city has invested in limiting cars from the historic center, the main shopping street is now pedestrian as are the main places.

Cahors and Figeac are not that far apart, I remember one road trip leaving from an hour south of Toulouse, stopping in Cahors for a few hours then driving to Figeac with a stop in St. Cirq la Poupie. The drive is beautiful. Figeac as you probably know has many colombage structures and two small museums. Najac may be out of your way, it's my favorite perched village in the area.

StuDudley

>>1. Car Rental (leaving Toulouse) : Is it better to rent at the airport or the train station I will need an automatic transmission<<

We picked up a car at the airport this year because the train station did not offer automatic transmissions. Otherwise, the train station is easy to get in & out of. Both have a train station/airport "pickup" fee.

>>2. Exiting Dordogne : It appears the TGVs to Paris only go from Bordeaux (we’ve been before, not keen to revisit), so ending in Perigueux or Bergerac, for example, leads to some detouring. How about returning the car at Brive La Gaillarde ? I see rental offices by the station, so I could drop the car in the evening after a busy day of touring from Sarlat, spend the night in a nearby hotel and take a next morning early IC train to Paris.<<

We returned our car in Brive this year. The Europcar is adjacent to the station - but you'll have to find parking for yourself. We parked in a loading zone. If you arrive after working/shopping hours - you shouldn't have problems with parking. There is a garage at the train station also. We really enjoyed Brive - it was the "surprise" of our trip. It doesn't have a Michelin star - but I would award it 1 1/2 stars. It was much more interesting than Aurillac - which does have a star.

>>3. Caves : Given limited time, I thought Peche Merle, Gouffre de Padirac and Lascaux II would be enough “variety” over the course of the trip,<<

Those are the three I would visit if I only wanted to visit three.

>>4. Kayaking/Boating : Given the multiple confusing options, is the stretch of river from Vitrac to Beynac most visually appealing by canoe?<<

Yep. Once past Beycac it is not as scenic, IMO.

>>I think the gabarres service a shorter section of this route from La Roque Gageac to Castelnaud.<<

Depends on where you pick up the boat - either Roque Gageac or Beynac. Both go as far as Castelneau.

Stu Dudley

dugi_otok

1. Car Rental (leaving Toulouse) :I always rent at the airport. Choice of cars is better. Last trip we rented a small Mercedes automatic from Avis.

2. Exiting Dordogne : Brive is good for continuing to Paris.

3. Caves : I visited Peche Merle, Gouffre de Padirac and Lascaux II on my first trip to the area. No need for reservations April/May. Although we did make next day reservations for Peche Merle. Font-de-Gaume is special, but difficult to arrange entry.

Peche Merle can be visited on your journey break Cahors/Figeac or from Sarlat. I would spend 7 nights in Sarlat. I can recommend these places to stay:

https://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p74875

http://www.villaconsuls.fr/en/accueil/

4. Kayaking/Boating : Last trip in May/June Kayaking/Boating was closed due to high water.

StCirq

1. Car Rental (leaving Toulouse) : Is it better to rent at the airport or the train station ? I will need an automatic transmission and typically avoid driving within large cities, unless exiting Toulouse from its station is easy. I've used Europcar and SixT in France previously.

Either the train station or the airport will be fine. If you have to have an automatic, the airport may be a bit better, but getting out of town and on the road can be a bit of an exercise.


2. Exiting Dordogne : It appears the TGVs to Paris only go from Bordeaux (we’ve been before, not keen to revisit), so ending in Perigueux or Bergerac, for example, leads to some detouring. How about returning the car at Brive La Gaillarde ? I see rental offices by the station, so I could drop the car in the evening after a busy day of touring from Sarlat, spend the night in a nearby hotel and take a next morning early IC train to Paris.

Don't know why you don't like Bordeaux, but yes, you don't have a lot of choices, so leaving from Brive makes sense. There is one train per day that gos straight from Brive to Paris.

3. Caves : Given limited time, I thought Peche Merle, Gouffre de Padirac and Lascaux II would be enough “variety” over the course of the trip, and each of these also seem possible to pre-book online so there is certainty of access. Any views?

Pech (not Peche)- Merle is fabulous. The Gouffre de Padirac is not a prehistoric chromatic cave, but certainly worth a visit. It's just a touristy jump down a big huge hole in the ground. Lascaux is a reproduction (whether that bothers you or not is a consideration - I think it's amazing but a lot of people shudder because it's not "real"). You should really try to get into Font-de-Gaume while it's still open to visitors - it's the last of the real chromatic caves in the area. I can help you with that if you want. But only if visiting these amazing places is of real import to you.

4. Kayaking/Boating : Given the multiple confusing options, is the stretch of river from Vitrac to Beynac most visually appealing by canoe? I think the gabarres service a shorter section of this route from La Roque Gageac to Castelnaud. My wife and I should be able to manage a 2-3 hour kayaking experience (the one hour by boat seems abrupt), though we aren’t regular canoers.

I live here and never tire of taking the gabarre trip from Beynac. The guides on the boats are so incredibly well informed. I hold them in high esteem.

I absolutely loathe canoeing on the river, even in the off-season when the river isn't jam-packed with boats. I always opt for a kayak, for maneuverability. If you are talking about the Dordogne, yes, the route from Vitrac to Beynac or Allas-les-Mines is the prettiest route. If you want to do the Vézere, there are pretty routes from St-Léon-sur-Vézère.

FrenchMystiqueTours

In regards to caves it depends how many you've been in and what you find interesting about them. I think Pech Merle and the reproduction Lascaux cave are amazing. Pech Merle was especially spine tingling for me because it was original and I'm very into prehistory stuff. But I was way underwhelmed by the Gouffre de Padirac. A big hole in the ground with a huge waiting line (I was there in August and didn't pre-book tickets) and a bunch of rock formations. You couldn't take photos but they were happy to sell you photos they took of you. Boring for me me but my wife likes it and I know others do so it depends on your personal tastes. If you're into geology then it is probably worth it.

StuDudley

Direct trains from Brive to Paris in May depart at:
8:00
9:03
13:11
14:59
16:03
18:00
19:03

We took the 13:11

Stu Dudley

ANUJ

Thank you, for all your very helpful responses. I now have the basic levers in place to put together my detailed travel plan.
Feeling more confident about exiting either of the Toulouse railstation/airport, depending on where an automatic of choice will be available. I will spend a night or two in the city-centre before driving out, to see Toulouse and help overcome the fatigue from the long flight from Mumbai. Glad to hear Brive is not just "practical" to exit Dordogne / head out to Paris, but atmospheric as well. On the caves, we excluded Font-de-Gaume only due to the restricted access/inability to pre-book, but will think that through – I realize it’s the authentic experience.

StuDudley

>> I realize it’s the authentic experience.<<

So is Pech Merle.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

After January 1, 2017, you should be able to pre-book Font-de-Gaume, and I would urge you to do so asap.

KarenWoo

I also agree with dugi-otok about the caves. We visited the three he mentions (Peche Merle, Lascaux II, and Gouffre de Padirac) and LOVED all three of them. We thought Gouffre de Padirac was stunning. Peche Merle might be my favorite. We also enjoyed La Rogue St. Christophe. Each cave we visited was different so I think we saw a nice variety. Also, we went in May 2015 and did not have advance reservations for any of them. I don't recall any lines, except for the English tour at Lascaux II (45 minute wait). We could not get into Font du Gaume; they were already booked up when we got there.

Just checked my trip report. We also visited Grotte de Rouffignac and really enjoyed it, too. It has a train ride, bear nests, and original cave drawings. Visited Grotte du Grand Roc, but that was our least favorite.

We stayed at Villa Consuls in Sarlat, and it was wonderful. Great location and we had a two-bedroom suite. Very spacious.

Cathinjoetown

ANUJ, Glad the trip is coming together for you!

StCirq

Spelling:

Pech Merle
La Roque St-Christophe - it's not a cave, it's a dwelling place that has been inhabited for 20,000+ years by many different civilizations, up through the Middle Ages.

IMO, I agree with France Mystique Tours that the Gouffre de Padirac is pretty much a tourist trap. Nothing historically significant about it - might as well go down in an elevator in the Gouffre de Proumeyssac in Le Bugue and not drive all the way to the Lot. Personally, I like the Grotte du Grand Roc a lot more than the Grotte de Rouffignac, which I also consider a tourist mecca and not much of a cave (Bara-Bahau in Le Bugue is more interesting, IMO). Grand Roc shows really impressive layers of rock formations and explains 25,000 years of history in these parts. Plus they do really impressive recreations of spear-throwing and killing things to stay alive.

kja

Yes of course, Pech Merle -- how embarrassing to have misspelled it.

ANUJ

Thank you for the incremental input re: caves, some of which I am less familiar with. Am reading up on the troglodyte settlements of La Roque St Christophe and La Madeleine, very interesting.

StuDudley

Mrs. France Mystic Tours liked the Gouffre de Padirac.

We've visited it 3 times and have never had to wait in a line. But we never visit France during the first three weeks in August. The Gouffre is unique in that it's the only cave we've visited that still has a river flowing through the cave - where you take a boat ride on the underground river, and then get off the boat & walk past stalactites & mites. We bypassed the picture purchasing line - like most people did.

Stu Dudley

ANUJ

We’re just back after ~ 2 weeks of dawdling through the Tarn/Lot/Dordogne, and wanted to thank all of you contributors, that make this forum such an invaluable resource to trip planning.

I’m not going to bore you with a long TR, but here are some musings following the sequence of our travels :
Toulouse : We flew into Toulouse by noon, and spent the evening walking in and around the Capitole before leaving for Albi the next morning. Our Europcar rental worked out fine, I’m glad we dropped by the Matabiau station counter to remind them we absolutely needed the Automatic with GPS as originally booked, and they arranged the car from the airport in time for my pickup next morning. Hitting the A68 from the station was a cakewalk, and Gaillac made for an interesting stop en route to taste some wines.
Albi : A charming town, the highlights for us were the imposing Albi Cathedral and the views from the Lautrec gardens and from across the river.
Cahors : This was just to break journey after a day of driving through Cordes and St Antonin Noble Val (it was market day), both touristy but charming in their own separate ways. The highlights in Cahors itself were the were Pont Valentre and tasting Malbec wine at a nearby shop/degustation venue (the Malbec lounge by the Tourist Office was shut on Sunday).
Figeac : A charming town in itself, we dropped by the spectacular (and well preserved) Pech Merle Cave and St Cirq Lapopie en route from Cahors. On another day, we visited the beautiful village of Conques, and ventured slightly further into the Aveyron to enjoy the riverside settings of Entraygues and Estaing.
Rocamadour : The view of Rocamadour tumbling down the cliff from the Hospitalet / Chateau level is breathtaking (including at night, when illuminated) – we explored the town (the religious level was interesting) more fully next morning, early enough to avoid the crowds. We enjoyed driving through a number of other charming villages nearby including Autoire, Loubressac, Carennac and Martel, as also the Padirac cave for its unique geology.
Sarlat : We absolutely adored Sarlat, and it made a perfect base for 5 nights to experience everything the Dordogne has to offer including the charming towns and chateaux (Beynac, Castelnaud, La Roque Gageac…), the breathtaking viewpoints (Domme), the gabarre cruise with Caminade, canoeing with Canoe Vacances (9kms from La Roque to Milandes), the gardens (Marqueyssac) and some pre-history along the Vezere Valley(the new Lascaux IV, and La Roque St Christophe).
Brive : We returned our car at Brive station and spent a night, before taking the IC train to Paris. We enjoyed this charming (highly underrated) town and our visit/tasting/shopping at the Denoix Distillery.

May seemed like a wonderful time to visit, less crowded and generally good weather (barring a day or two of rain). My wife and I are both vegetarian, but ate reasonably well in a region that seems obsessed with a particular bird. As recurring visitors to France, this region offered a very different experience from our past travels – distinctively rustic and authentic for the most part, and relatively undiscovered by mass tourism. Thanks again.

StCirq

Thanks for the feedback, ANUJ. As residents of the Dordogne, it's always nice to hear that folks have enjoyed our slice of paradise. As for "relatively undiscovered by mass tourism," don't come in July or August!

StuDudley

>>Brive : ..... We enjoyed this charming (highly underrated) town<<

Brive is a gem. We spent the better part of a day there. It gets 0 stars from Michelin - but we enjoyed it quite a bit more than the 1 star Aurillac, which we visited a couple of days after visiting Brive last year.

Stu Dudley