copperdog

We have just returned from France where, to our great surprise and inconvenience, our Visa card was repeatedly rejected at numerous outlets. Many places in France (and Europe generally) now only accept "smart" Visa cards, so-called "chip and PIN" which are not issued in the US. (The US continues to use "mag and swipe" cards only). I called Visa, but their response is that "mag and swipe" cards must be accepted wherever the Visa logo is advertised. They offered to "educate" the folks who rejected the card that they were breaking an agreement. That's all. So beware. Visa (like all US-issued credit cards) is no longer a reliably international card. If you do not want to be stranded, TAKE LOTS OF CASH with you!

logos999

Come to Germany, no chips on german credit cards

Budman

What about ATM machines? Exactly what outlets are you talking about? Restaurants? Clothing stores?

copperdog

We were so inconvenienced in the South of France that we may indeed just head for Germany next year!

jody

I know we were all told US cards would work in "chip" machines but I had the same experience as you, in London a few months ago. Educating them doesn't do much good after the fact!

copperdog

Many restaurants required "smart cards" only. Most ATM machines rejected our cards too. However, we did find a number that worked. It was a random, hit-or-miss affair. Similarly, while some peages accepted the card, most did not. (One attendant said that the system jad just started rejecting non-smart cards around mid-July, to everyone's consternation. We witnessed an enormous jam at one peage, where an attendent slowly searched for the papers and a pen to manually write down the particulars of a driver who had neither the cash nor the correct card to pay the toll fee. Cars were honking and drivers yelling at the top of their lungs. The kids, at least, thought it was fun, even in the 40 degree heat.

Michel_Paris

My understanding is that the "chip" cards are more secure, so I would say that perhaps we may learn from them. Yes, (speaking for use in France) you can use your card when you pay for items in a store, at a restaurant, in an ATM mauchine, etc.. But on automated machines, they will not work (such as toll booths, gas stations, train ticket machines). In these instances, you go find a human.

So, no, VISA is as reliable as it ever was. No, you don't need to take a lot of cash (ATMs are everywhere).

copperdog

Michel knows better and is no doubt correct. Hwoever, we also ran into trouble at places with attendants: for example, a restaurant owner personally declined the card and explained the need for a "smart card". And many peage attendants said they were powerless to accept the card (we tried at every peage). With the greatest respect, too, many ATMS rejected all our US cards and so we were unable to withdraw cash at our convenience. (We stocked up whenever we found a nice little one that accepted any one of our cards). I, for one, would take much more cash with me that I have in the past. Michel is correct about the smart card being more secure. Most French people we spoke to about our problem seemed to agree: the US refuses to shift to smart card technology because it is jealous that the system was inveneted not in the US but in France.

Sandra Chu at Visa Corporate headquarters says the real reason is that US Visa is experimenting with so-called "contactless cards" which merely have to be waved and so dispenses with swiping and inserting a card. Till the happy day arrives, US customers will simply have to insist on service abroad. Try that at an unmanned gas station!

Christina

huh, I was just in Paris for about a week in July and used my US credit cards a lot (both Visa and MC) and never had a single problem. I never was trying to use them at automatic machines without a person, though.

I don't see why you are focusing on VIsa, though, if this is a chip and PIN issue. Wouldn't it be the same issue with a MC?

Christina

copperdog, I just say your recent post. As I said, I never had a single problem, not once -- in stores, SNCF, restaurants (and I don't eat in expensive ones), etc.

Why are you using your credit card at an ATM, though? That's what it sounds like you are saying which is a bad idea, anyway. I used my ATM card a lot in France, also, and never had a problem with it, either.

Statia

Sounds like as soon as we all get that chip put in our hand we will no longer run across these pesky problems.

kerouac

One of the supermarkets in my neighborhood in Paris (my Chinese supermarket, in fact) refuses non-smart cards, although I know that they technically do not have the right to do so. But it is becoming increasingly common because there is 50 times more fraud with the other cards than with smart cards. Some countries have decided that the cost of the fraud is less than the cost of changing all of the cards (and installing the necessary technology in each and every shop), but I personally think that this is somewhat short sighted.

LoriNY1

Educate me. Are you referring to the cards that have 'Blink'? If that's the case, I'm good. BTW, never had a problem before.....

copperdog

We were in the South of France, not Paris. I'm not sure if this made a difference. When I spoke to Sandra Chu at Visa HQ, she said she was aware of the problem and that many "mag and swipe" cardholders around the world occasionally ran into trouble. It is not only US cardholders who are affected: she informed me that customers in all parts of the world that continue to use non-chip/"mag-and swipe" cards are experiencing this problem. Her solution: take the names and addresses of all non-cooperative outlets and Visa will "educate" them about the need to "accommodate mag-and-swipe customers".
So I am glad that some US cardholders do not have card problems in Europe. But I can assue you that we had many (as did others--check the web for more complaints dating back to July this year). Best of luck to all!

norween

FYI (and bad news for logos99 and US card holders) the SEPA (Single European Payment Area) agreement means that the complete EU + Switzerland, Norway and Finland will be chip and PIN in 2010 (or before)

logos999

All debit cards that I know of have PIN and chip here, never had a problem with them anywhere in Europe (incl. France). What's bothering is that the machine locks the card for a while!, but I've never used or owned a credit card with chip, even the most recent ones.

logos999

Not so bad, I'm sure they send a free replacement card

copperdog

Wish I could liberally use my debit card on vacation in France--but I cannot!

norween

<<< Visa will "educate" them about the need to "accommodate mag-and-swipe customers".<<<
Does this mean they want all the merchants to learn about prehistory ?

norween

BTW MasterCard has made public that they will (no date anounced) provide debit cards (they said nothing about credit cards) compatable with the SEPA norms and using the chip/PIN system.
Visa says they are "thinking about a new payment solution" (whatever this means)