laeastsider

Hi all you wonderful travelers! One of my childhood friends and I want to travel to Europe at the end of September (2012). It's her first time there, and my first time to many places. We are 25 year old savvy Los Angeles ladies and want to have a fun, cultural and good learning experience! We have some English/Finnish friends wanting to meet up with us as well.

We are extremely flexible with our plans now, but yes we would like it to be affordable.

2-3 weeks

Definite destinations:
London
Amsterdam
Berlin (for Octoberfest?!)

Maybe destinations:
Paris
Lisbon
Barcelona
Florence
Marseille/Southern France

All suggestions welcome!
PLEASE HELP US!!!

PalenQ

Well if taking the train as is in order for going to large cities where cars are more and more a liability - large swathes of city centres being off-limits theseadays to cars - parking can be problematic and gas approaching $10/gal some places - take the fantastic rail system. Folks under 26 can buy the bargain Eurail Youth railpass - anyways for lots on the European rail system check out these IMO fantastic sources for learning about the inns and out of trains - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Rail & Planning Guide that gives rail itineraries for each country, rail maps, etc. (http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/si...s/rg011210.pdf).

distances are not that great in western Europe and trains nowadays go up to about 200 mph so you can see easily several different places in a say 3 week period - but do try to stay about three full days in each tourist mecca like Paris, Barcelona, Florence, Rome, etc. Lisbon is nice but a major detour from any other place on your list. But cheap flights are also possible if you act before leaving and try flying open jaw - into say London, work your way via Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Switzerland to Italy and fly back from say Venice or Rome.

Dukey1

I think you might be thinking of Munich for Octoberfest.

And besides the obvious rail options take a look at www.whichbudget.com and www.skyscanner.net for possible budget flights between major cities.

laeastsider

I appreciate your insight, PalenQ and Dukey1. I should clarify to everyone that the trip is actually more like 2 weeks. And I will be flying to the Middle East right after. I can't edit my posting! :/
Thank you so much

RMMR2

Hello,

How exciting for you! I don't know what you consider "affordable" but London is very expensive by anyone's standards, and probably the most expensive city in Europe (or in the top 2 or 3). I understand that Spain is a much better value right now--so perhaps Barcelona might be a good choice?

For 2 weeks, I'd limit it to 3 destinations; for 3 weeks, 4 destinations (and as you probably know, once you're in a city, there are day-trips you can do to nearby cities, if you choose.

Of all the places you've listed, I've been to Paris (which is simply wonderful), Florence, which I found, aside from certain major works of art, not that interesting compared to other Italian cities, and Berlin--which is very cosmopolitan and more modern in feeling than Paris (and certainly more so than Florence). Berlin is very cosmopolitan, artsy and international. I agree with Dukey1 that if experiencing Oktoberfest is important to you, Munich (home to several beer gardens) is probably a better choice than Berlin.

laeastsider

Wow! Thanks RMMR2, so insightful! You people are so nice, can you just come on our trip with us?! Lol. I realize Munich for Octoberfest, now. Doh.

I guess as of now we're more concerned where to fly into and the appropriate itinerary.

Questions:
Should we fly into London first? And will booking flights while there be a poor (read: pricey) choice?

Still interested in what others think about destinations and how long to stay in each. Thank you all!

Aramis

Lisbon is a long, long, long, way away from anywhere else on your list. Like 14 hours driving from Barcelona, the closest of your "maybe's". So, probably 30 36 hours for return travel to get to Lisbon from Barcelona and then back to Provence. If you really want it - I would thing flying is the best option.

And Barcelona is the second most distant spot from anywhere else - 10 hours from Paris, 4 hours from Provence.

I suggest you start looking into some routing like this (leaving Lisbon out for examples sake);

London
Paris
Barcelona
Marseilles/Provence
Florence
Berlin
Amsterdam

The long legs are;

Paris - Barcelona
Florence - Berlin

with Berlin - Amsterdam coming in third.

You would probably want to fly those legs, take overnight trains, or find someplace in the middle of each pair to stop.

Now, here come the rest of the friendly folk telling you to go, instead, to their favourite places. Because it makes them feel good to do that.

Alycett

I would fly into London first if the prices are better from your home to there which I believe they are. Booking flights can be done there but if you book ahead on the cheaper airlines you can save money ahead. Check skyscanner.com and it will show who is flying for cheaper and you can look at the entire month and see when it is cheaper to fly somewhere. That being said I would far rather take the train. There are night trains that will save you on hotel rooms and seeing the countryside during the day is even better. For example you can take the train from London to Harwich and take a night ferry over to Amsterdam and than take the train into Amsterdam. The train and ferries match right up so there's no taking a taxi or something they are just right there. If you check out seat61.com it will explain everything you every wanted to know about taking the trains anywhere in the world. The system in Europe is so much better than in North America and so much cheaper. I wouldn't get a pass as so many suggest though as they have made it more difficult to use with needing reservations in a lot of places. If you take the train under the channel to Paris it is more expensive and I think you get a better deal if you book in advance. Anyway that's just my two cents. P.S. Rome is my favourite city but if you are going to be in more Northern countries maybe it won't work out so well (there is a night train from Paris though)

laeastsider

Haha, thanks Aramis! I think you're right. Lisbon is getting the AXE (only considered it because a friend will be there)

And thanks, Alycett! The London to Amsterdam train idea is helpful. And I would definitely consider Rome instead of some of the other maybe destinations if it isn't too expensive to get there!

Between Munich and Berlin what do you all recommend? Octoberfest aside. And is southern France wishful thinking? Obviously tremendously different from Paris, but not sure if it is worth trying to fit it into the London, Amsterdam, Germany itinerary.

Alycett

Trains in Italy are super cheap and another reason why we didn't get a pass and there are many overnight trains to get there including Paris to Rome.

You can reach Nice from Paris in 5 hours by train I think although I might recommend one of the lakes in Italy if you want beach time instead. We stayed in Varenna on Lake Como (1 hour by train from Milan) and it was so beautiful although there is no actual beach in that town there are beaches in other towns on the lake and there is a ferry that goes all over across the lake all day.

You can reach Rome from Nice on the train in about 8? hours by going through Genoa or Milan I think and it is a beautiful trip that goes for most of the way along the Mediterranean.

If you decide to go to Munich (I'm afraid I haven't been to Berlin or Munich so can't say which is better) there is a night train from Munich to Venice.

If you go to Venice I would stay out of town in Padua/Padova (it's about 30 minutes by train from Venice) and a much quieter lovely town. The best hotel we stayed in on our trip is there and called Belludi 37. Check out the reviews on Trip Advisor.

laeastsider

Awesome. Much appreciated, Alycett! I will definitely have to make Italy a contender, now.

London, Amsterdam, Paris(?!) and Germany are still our absolute musts, for now. Someone mentioned Barcelona as a good value these days (although, maybe out of the way)? Anyone have any insight there? Also, if in Barcelona, would Southern France be feasible?

Can anyone else recommend whether booking a train pass in advance from London to Amsterdam, for example, is a good idea? Or will it be wise to purchase as we go along?

We're OBVIOUSLY in the rudimentary stages of planning, but you're insights have been so helpful. Thank you all, again!

laeastsider

*your insights. woopsie

rosetravels

With 2 weeks, if you're going to London, Amsterdam and Paris, I'd choose either Berlin or Rome. Otherwise I think you give up too much time for transit and won't have enough time to hang out in cafes and wandering the cities.

StCirq

<<If you go to Venice I would stay out of town in Padua/Padova (it's about 30 minutes by train from Venice) and a much quieter lovely town.>>

While I love Padua,if you're going to Venice, go to Venice. A whole trip can be organized around the lovely towns inland near Venice. Save that for another time and concentrate on the prize - Venice - if that end up being part of your plan.

Barcelona and southern France seem like outliers to me for this trip - too far away from the hub of your interests. Stick to your plan of staying north.

PalenQ

ditto not staying in Padua and day tripping into Venice - I have done this and regretted it - now always stay in Venice, which to me is more magical after dark even than in the day - also many day tripping bus tour types are gone - wandering around the city at night - bridges lovely illuminated - a trip down the Grand' Canal at night so so so sublime.

Padua is nice but dead as a door nail IME at night - stay in Venice - it is well worth the perhaps extra cost.

PalenQ

I'd choose either Berlin or Rome. Otherwise I think you give up too much time for transit and won't have enough time to hang out in cafes and wandering the cities>

this is one leg you may want to try to get a cheap flight on - yup long long way between Rome and Berlin - that kind of Axis, no pun intended.

Bigfoot1972

Definitely goto Munich for Oktoberfest, it's the greatest party in the world. Make sure not to go on a saturday though....

PalenQ

Get the bible guidebook for backpackers - Let's Go Europe - a wealth of great info - high point to me is giving run downs on zillions of budget hostels and hotels - just a lot of great useful info to have along - especially in times when Internet accessibility may be hard. Sold in any major bookstore, Amazon, etc.