Anna1013

My sister and I, both in our mid 20's will be taking a trip to Europe with our parents, both in their early 60's. We have only been to Europe once, and they have never been. They are in pretty good physical condition - able to withstand walking for moderate periods of time, etc. However, my father does have a heart condition, and his knees can affect him if he exerts himself too much. Since stress seems to come even easier to them now, we are doing all the planning.

So here is where I would really appreciate pointers from those who have traveled with family. We are in the planning stages, and will probably go to Paris, Rome, London. When traveling with parents, would you use the bus over the metro since it cuts down on walking?

Would some of you take a break during the afternoon, perhaps between 4pm-6pm, so that they wouldn't get worn out?

Or even more importantly, would you schedule things so that each group(kids/parents) would have some alone time? I would be completely for this one, but I don't want them to feel that we are ditching them in a foreign country- any tips?

harzer

You make them sound like they're 80+.

I'm in my late sixties and would hate having the kids tagging along every minute of the day.

Give them some breathing space, let them organize themselves for the day, and stop worrying about them - they'll have a ball getting into all sorts of scrapes and having strangers help them out.

Ultimately meeting people is what travel is all about, so just dump them in a cafe somewhere and let them go for it. To heighten the piquancy of the whole business I wouldn't even bother pinning the name of their hotel on them.

Harzer

Tulips

I was thinking the same as harzer! Your parents can decide for themselves what they want to do. I regularly do citytrips with my 67-year old mum. We just take more 'cafe breaks' and take more taxis where I would walk.
If your parents want to see museums (for example), and you don't, just do something else on your own and meet up afterwards.

hansikday

Traveling with parents can be a wonderful experience that leaves you with many fond memories. The key is to ensure everyone is singing off the same sheet of music and have common expectations.

The group's travel style will really center around your parent's temperment and previous travel experience. A first ever trip overseas can be a bit scary and confusing for people of any age.

Based on what you have described I would recommend that you:

take the metro early in the day when everyone's legs are fresh and the bus later on, but grab a taxi if the group starts to sag and ache. A long walk/metro ride late in the day can really sap your energy and desire to explore.

plan some periods of "alone time" (maybe not on the first day) so you and meet up later for a meal or back at the hotel.

plan a break of 1-2 hours each day so people of all ages can freshen up or lay down awhile. We usually do this between 3-5 and then head back out refreshed and ready for some walking prior to dinner.

plan on stopping at cafes for coffee or a glass of wine and some people watching.

Good luck and have a wonderful time


PS - I think Harzer was making a joke.

PatrickLondon

I can understand your wanting to avoid stress in the planning, but it might be an idea to let them have some options in advance, to get a feel for what kind of things are higher or lower priority for each of you, and for occasions when you might want to split up and do different things. Otherwise, if you're anything like my family, you will have stress while you're on the holiday, which is the last thing anyone wants.

A couple of incidental pointers. I remember some lines from a recent TV comedy, on 'motherspeak': definite warning signs are
'I'm sure you know best, dear'
'Of course, it's none of my business..'

And most museums in London have reasonable cafés on the premises - they know their market!

Intrepid1

I agree with the provision for time alone..for both sets of travelers in this case. I think this subject alone warrants serious discussion, beforehand, which should help lessen the possibility that anyone is feeling "ditched."

I would also that you strongly encourage your parents to participate in at least some of the "planning" which does not necessarily have to be "stressful" and that way they will feel as if they are a part of this trip AND that their feelings count.

Even if it is their "first" trip I suspect they may have some notions of what they might want to see.

Nikki

I think the key is to leave a lot of flexibility in your schedule. If people feel up to walking, great. If they feel up to the metro, go for it. If they'd rather take a cab, do that. If you want to do different things, do different things.

Even though you are doing most of the planning, you might find that when you get to Europe your parents become more interested in deciding what to do. This is certainly the case with my family. Nobody except me is interested in our schedule until we get there. However, I would discuss this with your parents and see whether they have any priorities and give them an idea of the things you would like to do.

I wouldn't plan the details of every day so closely that you are pre-scheduling rest times. My favorite way to travel is to plan a couple of things for each day and let the rest of the day grow around them depending on how people feel.

I am in my fifties and have been traveling with my college aged daughter every year on her spring break. It has been a pleasure watching her learn to get around in new places, and we have gotten to the point where it is sometimes she who has the best ideas about getting through our travel days. Especially when I'm getting tired and cranky. I think your parents will really enjoy having your guidance, but they will probably want to make a lot of their own decisions on the spot.

nytraveler

I agree - you seem to be treating them as if they're feeble-minded - as well as wheelchair bound. I have traveled with my 80+ parents a couple of times - and they know their physical limitations - and plan for them. (And while they do things at their own pace - they certainly don;t need afternoon naps.) As for planning - we each take certain aspets of it (transport, hotels, sights etc) - divide and conquor - but they're always very definite on their must sees.

There's absolutely no need for all of you to be joined at the hip - just make sure you all have a clear plan as to when and where you'll meet after your various activities.

degas

Please treat your parents with great care and understanding; especially if one of them has a heart condition and knee problems. Experienced travelers tend to forget how scary a first trip abroad can be.

Whatever you do, don't dump them at a cafe across town and tell them to sink or swim. Sure, its tempting given all the times they grounded you as a kid, but it could ruin your trip and subject you to constant reminders of your coldheartedness for many years in the future. Mt sister made that mistake
and the subject never fails to come up at family gatherings.

So be joined at the hip for a day or so and then start the seperation operation slowly, but firmly as they get used to the city and the various transportation options.

I also like the idea of a 1-2 hour break during the middle of the afternoon. We always start early (0800)
and stay out late so I've been known to take a nap and soak my feet during the down time (and I'm not weak or feeble-minded by any measure). That's also a good time to confirm or revise plans for the rest of the day/evening.

And when in doubt, take a cab and skip the metro stairs from Hades.

NYCFoodSnob

Early 60's, and they've never been to Europe? I'd say you have some serious planning to consider, especially if your parents don't live in a walking, stair-climbing city like NYC. Ignore the denial or misguided criticism you receive from other posters. 60 (with a heart condition and bad knees) is NOT 30, 40, or even 50. And few in their 20's can ever understand how it FEELS to be 60. (You were smart to inquire here.)

My mother and aunt were in their 60's when I took them to Paris (but I wasn't in my 20's). It was their first and only trip to Europe. Other than typical aches and pains and living in a car-driving-city in Ohio, they didn't have any physical difficulties but they certainly couldn't keep up with me. Wishing to be respectful, I planned accordingly.

I put them in their own apartment (we were there for 2 weeks) and I stayed in another apartment 4 blocks away. Having alone time was built into the plan. We all agreed we'd be on our own for breakfast.

The best advice is to avoid the common temptation to overbook each day. We were always out on the street by 9:30 but, come 1 pm, we were having lunch with the Parisians. I'd fit something minor in between 3-5 and then go back home to rest before 8 pm dinner. (They were accustomed to eating by 6 pm.) I did my best to get them to bed by 11 pm. If I wanted to stay out later or get them home sooner, I put them in a cab and sent them home. It worked out well.

Their legs got a serious workout and they were popping aspirin all day long but they held up well. There were some important sites we had to miss due to flexibility and the fear of overdoing. They came back to America with renewed vigor and zest for life. The trip was a success. Good luck.

nytraveler

Sorry - perhaps I wasn;t clear. I'm not suggesting that you never go back to your hotel. We always do this before dinner - to relax, shower and change. What I'm saying is - you shouldn;t be asking US if they need a nap. You should be asking THEM - they're the only ones that will know.

As for transport - I never use public transport when traveling with my parents. Given their limited energy it shouldn't be expended on unnecessary walking, waiting and stairs. We always either do car or cab. For several people the difference in cost in rarely significant.

mamc

Let your parents be the judges. After all, many in their early 60's have lots of energy and are in great physical condition. Plan a manageable schedule the first couple of days and see how they do. I expect just getting used to the change of scene will be more taxing than the physical demands.
Try to plan a part of each day for them to do what they want - perhaps on their own. Even though you are doing all the planning, be sure to get their ideas of what they would like to do and incorporate them into the itinerary.
Buses and taxis are fine. London and Paris are great walking cities so let your parents determine when they would rather take the metro, bus or a taxi. Rome is a little more difficult and you will probably have to include some taxis.

emtravel

I think there are two issues here:

1. parents never been in Europe and kids been so there are can be some friction - kids do not need to showoff as we know it all! On the others side, They have to be tactful to respect the anxieties of parents .
Usually cities are not problem, it is easy to find activities to do for both generations, together and apart, depending on interest, so allow some flexibility. Maybe 1/2 day private tour of the city and 1 day out of the city is a good introduction from a local guide's perspective and good for orienration. Good for parents and also for children who think they know it all (that's a 49 year old parent of grown up kids talking! )

2. Second issue that a parent has some difficulty walking. That's , regardless of age, might create a problem and needs to be planned carefully. It really does not depend on age. My husband is 49 however, he has some heart problems, and gets tired easily when walking uphill. He also has problems with legs - they give out sometimes and he can fall. Therefore, we never talk group sightseeing. Always sightsee on our own or with private guide. In country and some cities we drive, other cities use cabs and private guides/drivers. This way we already traveled around world including last october to Thailand where in some places it was really difficult to move around.
Remember that some undergrounds/subways in Europe do not have escalators. Keep this in mind. You can find out in advance.

good luck.

ssachida

Talk about coincidences. I am just back from an Italy trip with my 50 something parents. I am 20 something. My father has a heart condition and my mother has a bad knee.
Some things I'd do if I had to do it over again:
1. Make sure your hotel room is in the ground or 1st floor or the hotel has an elevator. One of our hotels was 4 floors up with no elevator. I did check with my parents before I booked but I should have known better. They never complained, but I did feel terrible.

2. Take more taxis/metros. It is really not that much more expensive especially in Italy since the city centers are quite small. While walking is fun, save it for the scenic routes, museums and the alone times.

3. They tend to over-estimate themselves. Insist on a break even if they say they are fine. Tired parents can get cranky later (they claimed it was pay-back for all the times I was cranky as a kid )

Things we did that were a hit and I would repeat:
1. I went out for an hour or two early every morning. That way I got in my morning run and some alone time and my parents got a leisurely vacation morning. Sometimes I picked up breakfast on my way back so we could enjoy it on the terrace or balcony.

2. My parents took an afternoon siesta for an hour or two when I did a small side trip of my own. Again, some alone time and they were refreshed for the evening. To make this work, you do have to get a central hotel. Being even 15 minutes away from the center can make this wearying (been there done that).

3. Split up in museums and stores. Decide on a time and place to meet up afterwards. This I would do wether my companions were 60+ or not. Everyone has different tastes/interests. Ususally I or they could be found if we wanted to share something. But if not, we talked about what we liked after we met up outside.

4.After dinner we went for a short walk together and my parents were ready to go back and relax. I would then go off on my own for an hour or so again. A brisker walk, a bar, or just to right write in my journal while sitting in front of the Pantheon.

It was a great trip. We had a great time together and alone.

SusanP

I think it is also a matter of how your parents feel about being on their own. If they don't do any research or planning at all, they won't be comfortable getting around on their own. I went to London (6 nights) and Paris (5 nights) last Sept with my 80-year-old mother, who wanted me to do all the planning. I did make her read a guidebook and tell me what she definitely didn't want to miss, but the point is that even though she did this, she didn't learn anything about getting around, so we didn't split up at all. We had a wonderful time and she is very easy to get along with, so this wasn't really a problem, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked a half day to myself a couple of times.

My mother is in very good shape but walks slowly, and I have arthritis in my knees. I find the bus a much better alternative (avoids all those stairs and long corridors in the metro/tube). We only took the metro once in the entire trip, to go from the Latin Quarter to Sacre Coeur, since that would be such a long bus ride. Of course, we also took a taxi when needed.

In London, near Trafalgar Square is a great place to stay for bus, as just about every bus line going in every direction stops there. Hope you have a great trip!

Chele60

I travel with my mother frequently (though not yet to Europe) and she is currently 70. In some ways she is in better shape than I am!

I would suggest talking to your parents and finding out what they feel comfortable with. Are they adventurous? Will they mind being left to fend for themselves for an afternoon or two? Or do they have concerns about possibly getting lost? How comfortable do they feel about being left by themselves in places where English is not the major language?

Some folks in their 60s, 70s, 80s love the independence. Others, such as my mother, feel more comfortable being with me. Yeah, the "joined at the hip" thing. You need to figure out what they expect and work from there. And you also need to realize the "Oh, that's okay if you two want to go off by yourselves", only to discover they spent the entire afternoon in the room because they felt uncomfortable. No one here can tell you this because we don't know your parents.

Definitely include them in the planning! What they are probably stressed about are the logistics. At least this is true for my mother. She doesn't want to worry about how to get someplace, but she has definite opinions on what she wants to see/do. Discuss options with your parents - museums, cafe's, sightseeing - and see what they are interested in doing. Work out the logistics of getting to these places for them to reduce stress.

Don't overplan. They may very well find out once they get to their destination that they want to wander about by themselves. Leave plans open.

When I travel with my mother, I watch for signs that she's tiring because she won't always tell me. When I see her begin to lag or get a bit crabby, I'll suggest going back to the room because I'm feeling a bit tired. It helps her believe she's doing fine and keeping up. Yeah, a bit of game, but it keeps things rolling smoothly. This is not always necessary, though. On days where more walking is necessary, maybe some rest time is needed.

I don't get the "alone" time. When I travel with my mother the object is to spend time with her. I have "alone time" when I'm at home. Does this mean that sometimes I sacrifice going out to that nightclub? Perhaps (I'm not a nightclub person to begin with), but I wouldn't feel right leaving her alone. Just me. If your parents feel differently (and some parents want to get rid of their adult kids at some point during the day!), then you have a different situation. But I would definitely talk about this before you go. You don't want to arrive thinking you will have this "alone time" only to discover you will be hurting some one's feelings.

This sounds like a fun adventure - happy planning!

AisleSeat

I am 60-something and I took my 20 something son and daughter to London and Paris a couple of years ago and ran them into the ground. I think in our case "they" were wanting to go take a nap. One thing we did the first day in London that was great for all of us was to take a hop-on hop-off bus tour of the city so we had an overall picture of where things were located. Then we sat down together and decided what all we wanted to include in our day. We all decided later that it would have been better to have a hotel that was closer to the areas we wanted to tour so it would be easier to go back and refuel for and hour or two. As it was we had to ride the tube/metro back to the hotel and we ended up killing another hour just to make the roundtrip. You and your parents will be the best judge of what is enough or too much.

Grasshopper

One of the advantages of traveling with my 20something daughters is that they can go off together to do things I have no interest in, or when I just want to chill. Taking it easy in Europe doesn't always mean a return to the hotel for a nap (I never nap during the day). But an hour here and there, sitting in a cafe updating my journal or people watching is a great break.

Also, take taxis liberally. Metros and subways can be really rough on the knees and when you're on them you don't see anything. For the price of a taxi you get where you are going, and you see the sights on the way. With more than a couple of people it's nearly a wash, price-wise.

degas

My LW has instructed me to clarify my previous position on naps to as follows: "Nap" periods can include very nice things other than sleeping; especially on a rainy afternoon in Paris.

I'm trying to keep it PG with all the children reading this thread. So, you know what I mean, Vern? Wink! Wink!

Anna1013

Ugh.. is anyone having problems posting?