Yan

Hello!! <BR>My husband and I are going to France for our first time in July. We are excited but are concerned, too, for we have to take our 2-year-old daughter with us. What could be the best transportation for us in Paris? Is stroller possibly used on street? We'll spend one week in Bordeaux then another week in Paris, and we can afford a third week elsewhere in France or even Spain. Any good recommendations? <BR> <BR>Is it possible to go fine dining in the evening in Paris with a toddler? What about temporary baby-sitting service there? <BR> <BR>Any other advice or caution from those with the similar situation? People warned us that it must be hard to tour around Paris with a small kid, but we still want to make the best of it. Many thanks if you can help!! <BR> <BR>Yan

NO

Oh God another toddler question. For starters the words toddler and fine dining are two words that do not belong together. Small children are not normally seen in fine dining establishments in Paris and I doubt if you would be too popular if you took one. I'd suggest dining early with a small child or get a baby sitter (check with your hotel about that). Most places that I've been to in Paris to dine did not have any visible child seats, etc. - you just don't see much of it. Yes you can use a stroller but watch out for people's ankles! It will be very crowded in July. I'd suggest making time to visit the parks with your toddler and let her burn off energy there. The best of children are not ideal travelers (nor are many adults in fact) but little ones are not going to appreciate the Louvre experience much, nor the summer crowds, but will appreciate some downtime in a park. Picnicing in the parks is another good thing to do with a small child. Smoking is pretty prevalent in France and unless you want to expose her to lots of cigerette smoke I'd limit my "dining" anyway. You might consider the beach areas (Costa del Sol) in Spain as another place to go. The Spanish (and Italians) are much more tolerant of small children I've noticed.

elaine

Dear Yan <BR>I do not share all of the above opinions. <BR>People in Paris have toddlers of their own, surprisingly enough. Of course this will not be the same trip as it would be if it were adults-only, but that is not enough reason not to go anywhere. <BR>Strollers can be a little hard to manage on cobblestoned streets in the older neighborhoods, or uphill in some of the parks, but it can be done. Check with your hotels in advance regarding the availability of a crib for your room. <BR>Also, if you carry a diaper bag or supply bag with you every day, don't put your valuables in it unless you are carrying it on your person. If you tend to hang the diaper bag on the back of the stroller, it might be too available for theft. Paris is not unsafe at all in general, but your child may distract you from watching the whereabouts of that bag. <BR>It is true that you will probably do better in terms of service and comfort if you dine early in the evening, but you'd probably want to do that most of the time anyway when your daughter is with you. Smoke will be less of a problem then. I agree with the opinion that "fine dining" pretty much excludes children in the better restaurants. <BR> <BR>The metro can accommodate strollers, but you'll have to fold it up to get up and down the many flights of stairs in the metro, and to enter crowded train cars. <BR>My Paris notes have some information on Paris for children, not from my own experience but gleaned from this forum and other sources. If you would like me to send it to you, email me. It includes some babysitting agencies. I am sure other parents out there can also offer some suggestions. <BR>enjoy your trip

elvira

Paris: <BR>The major thoroughfares have cement sidewalks, so no trouble with a stroller (I am assuming you're using the little fold up one, not the Mercedes Benz design, since sidewalks can be narrow and crowded). <BR> <BR>I'd recommend buses; not scary for a 2 year old (whooshing subway trains can be a bit overwhelming for a little one; in addition, the crowds during rush hours are intense); less crowds; you can see where you're going; if you get separated, you can see each other. Walking is also an easy way to get around the city; with a stroller, Shorty can walk until she's pooped, then ride. Be aware that in some parts of the city, the streets and sidewalks are cobblestones or bricks (not real good for strollers). <BR>Taxis are always around, and if you've tapped out your energy reserves, just grab a cab. <BR>For dining, Shorty probably won't appreciate fency-dency, but that doesn't mean Denny's. There are many restaurants and bistros from which to choose, reasonably priced excellent food and the teeny-weeny can get food she'll like. Be aware that Parisians eat dinner LATE, so Shorty might not stay awake for the fency-dency place anyway. Bistros and cafes usually serve food throughout the day; several restaurants start serving around 6. <BR>Most museums and major attractions are handicap accessible, which means ramps, etc. for strollers. Hotels are a different matter; some have elevators, some don't. I'd try for the elevator hotels, and if not available, ask for a room on the lower floors (the stairs can be narrow and winding, not exactly what you want to climb with a sleeping toddler on your shoulder). <BR> <BR>There are LOTS of parks and green spaces for the teeny-weeny to run and play - things to climb, ponies to ride, other kids to poke. Bring funny little toys that other kids will be curious about. <BR> <BR>The French love children, so she'll get lots of attention. <BR> <BR>I'm sure there are reliable babysitting services; ask at the hotel, or contact the office of tourism for recommendations before you leave. <BR> <BR>Most of the above holds true for Bordeaux, but on a not-so-big-city scale. <BR> <BR>For the third week, why not rent a small house or apartment in the country or at the beach? There are "self-accommodating cottages" at resorts designed for families; there are individual rentals all over France and Spain. The rents are reasonable, and you can spend your days playing in the water and building sandcastles, or riding ponies and playing quoits....

Al

Warning: Paris is in a class by itself when it comes to sidewalks peppered with <BR>doggy-doo. They even have special clean-up people with vacuums to suck up the mess. So be careful with that stroller lest you run your wheels through the stinking mess. And in the park, be careful that your child doesn't get into it, too. It's AWFUL!

Ellen

Don't be put off by the naysayers. We are travelling to Paris with our 2 1/2 year old in May and I actually feel fine about it. She has been on planes 12 times in her life and we have developed strategies for that. We take the sit and stroll car seat stroller which you can wheel right through the airport and onto the plane and into her seat. Obviously take bottles or sippy cups for takeoff and landing. We pack a bag full of little wrapped airplane presents like stickers, books, markers, playdough and the like which my daughter looks forward to as well as snacks. In addition to the sit and stroll car seat which we will use for cab rides in Paris, we will take a lightweight but sturdy stroller (we are taking the combi savvy but there are others on the market). We walk for miles every day in NYC over cobblestones and potholes so I am not concerned about it bearing up in Paris. It is also light enough to carry down the subway steps or onto a bus if necessary. I suspect that we will do a lot of walking as we usually do in Paris and use the metro for particularly long trips. We may use taxis at night if we go to dinner in a distant arrondissement but if so, we will take the sit and stroll car seat. In terms of babysitting, there are several babysitting services in Paris but you may also want to check with your hotel as they may have babysitters on staff or on call. In terms of dining out, know your child and his or her limitations. We take our daughter out to eat several nights a week in NYC at restaurants ranging from 4 stars to diners but I have friends with children the same age who can't manage Burger King. We are going to try to do our fancier meals at lunch and stick to more informal bistrots, etc. for dinner though we may change our minds depending on how she reacts to the change in time. Again, I find it helpful to bring a bag with stickers and little books to read if/when the little one gets restless. Obviously, it will not be the same trip that you would take if it were just you and your husband but Paris has many attractions for children. We plan to take our daughter to one of the many child-friendly parks in the morning -- such as the Luxembourg Gardens or to the carousel in the Tuileries and then do a museum in the afternoon while she (hopefully) dozes in her stroller. Check out the Bonjour Paris board as well as there have been several threads recently about parks, etc. Good luck with your trip. Ellen

Kate

Re Al's post, I just returned from a week in Paris, and I have to say that the dog-dropping reports are greatly exaggerated. Yes, it was there, and more than we'd like (who'd want any), but it wasn't bad. Sure, there will probably be more in the summer, but if I could roll all over Paris for a week in a wheelchair and avoid it easily, you won't have a problem. I would take the smoking into account, as advised above, but although we were never in a restaurant or cafe where there was no one smoking, it wasn't nearly as smoky as we expected. Just expect your clothes to smell smoky, and take some Febreze along; it did the trick beautifully.

Beth Y.

Yan, see my reply to the post about taking a 1 1/2 year old to Rome. I have some suggestions that got us through. We took our then 15 month old to the Dordogne and Paris in September with no problem. A couple suggestions specifically re: France, in addition to my commments in my other post. First, France IS fine dining, so going out to a neighborhood place with the little one is just as much of a treat as the nice places, so you will not suffer if you can't go to only the five star places! Also, look for a hotel with good concierge or that offers babysitting service. A good small hotel would be best. We never used a babysitter, but, at her suggestions, left the baby-monitor with the concierge and told her where we would be. Worked like a charm for a night out. <BR>Also, re: Bordeaux, think instead about going getting out of the city and going to one of the farm inns in the Dordogne or St. Emilion region. I have never heard anyone say anything particularly great about Bordeaux as a city and the countryside to the east of Bordeaux is so incredible and the food so good. My daughter thinks everyone eats foie gras by the chuck at every meal (she loved it). We stayed at a place called Ferme Lamy. Check out Fodor's "Charming Hotels and Country Inns in France". In the country, you can come back from sightseeing and spend some time showing your kid the animals or swimming or whatever. <BR>FInal point, remember when people look at your baby and say "cuckoo" they are playing French peekaboo with your child, not making a statement about her mental capacity! <BR>Have fun.